Open 193 - Friends and Enemies: It's over!

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

The scum can't lynch me with only two players and VPB. Funny how they are trying to appear all threatening when they know far well they can't touch me with their weaksauce manpower. So sad. They misguidedly think they have a shot at the great Albert B. Rampage. Fanciful entrance is fancy. Sorry DDD, I wanted to see your scumhuntinng techniques but now I have to lynch you right after hito.

At least you're smart enough to not make it you versus me right now since you know you'll lose that battle, might as well and try to secure the lynch of your choice before you get yourself lynched, eh?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote, vote DDD

[hitogoroshi]

SC, VPB, myself, DDD. Gee, ABR, for a rockstar you sure like playing the same song (vote the last person who voted me) over and over. At least you took a break to replay that hit classic, "Vote the obvious scum confirmed townies called (claim the wagon as your own)".

Do you agree with me that it is safe to assume that both scum were on the RECKONER wagon yesterday?

Uhh, no? Bussing gets you town cred but in this case with confirmed townies calling for it posthumously you don't exactly get many points for being on the Reck wagon. This just seems like a nonchalant way of being able to avoid commenting on Sando and Vi for the whole post.

Consider RECKONER actively trying to make himself seem scummy. His hurried and failed attempt to hammer himself. RECKONER would have at least waited that both scum be on his wagon until trying to off himself for the benefit of his partners. This is just common sense.

Again, does anyone seriously so simplistically confirm anyone voting a scum as town that these tactics are warranted? I certainly don't hand out townie points so freely and I can't imagine anyone else doing the same.

Hitogoroshi made a 180 degree turn to vote RECKONER, so he is all but confirmed scum.

Uuh, I've been for a Reck wagon since I replaced in. I just didn't want to only have one wagon D2, so I pushed a counter-wagon (you) and when it didn't pan out I went with Reck.

To be honest, though, I think ABR's Reck>SC>VPB>Reck hop (not the vote hopping itself, but the circumstances around it) are a lot more scummy than how he's opened the day and if I couldn't get a wagon on him for the former I doubt I can get one for this. You guys know I'm all for an ABR wagon; but until more of the town is I'm not gonna waste my vote trying to convince you.

But having said that I don't exactly have a better place for my vote right now. I'd go for Sando but there's his V/LA. SC...still weirds me out but I don't have any sort of case to push. I'm gonna hold on to my vote for a little bit here I guess; it'd be nice to have everyone post to get a feel on where we stand.)

My top two scum suspects are ABR and Sando; especially because, after 894, I can see them being scum together kinda easily (n1 quicktopic: ABR tells sando to stay away from reck, he'll bus, and d3 he can frame it as 'obvious' both scum bussed and neatly avoid having to interact with sando.)

[Albert B. Rampage]

Thinking back, Sando is town much for the same reason Serialclergyman is. Vi is town because Vi is town.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I highly doubt scum would try to mount a rival bandwagon out of nothing when RECK was almost certainly going to be lynched.

[hitogoroshi]

To be clear, 'much the same reason serialclergyman is' is 'people not voting for the scum are obviously town?'

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yes hito, RECKONER was bussed by both his partners, one of which was yourself.

Unvote, vote hitogoroshi

[Albert B. Rampage]

Hitogoroshi has now moved up to 100% scum with post 902, I shit you not.

[hitogoroshi]

Unvote, vote VPB

Yep he's scum alright.

What I don't like about VPB is he just attacks the same 2 people all day. Day 1, charlatan and me. Day 2, RECK and me. No imagination at all. Scum for sure, guys, lynch him up.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Never before have I brought out the 100% claim before. Boy oh boy, I must really be certain.

Look, guys. I know I'm not the most LIKEABLE player here (but also not the most unlikeable thanks to VPB). I admit, I am not nice at all. But believe me when I tell you that hitogoroshi is 100% scum.

Check out the hop on RECKONER. PCE defusing Scien's "L-# scumtell" situation, and their lack of interaction. RECK placing PCE as second most suspicious, and me trapping him to vote PCE.

It's like putting a giant puzzle together, piece by piece. You don't know what the picture will be until the final piece is placed. I now have that picture before me and I know who is scum.

I'm tempted to say hitogoroshi and Zorblag, rather than DDD. Something to think about.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I need to see if Zorblag will follow through on his suspicion of hitogoroshi. If he doesn't, they are partners for sure. If he does, they might be partners.

Serialclergyman needs to vote hito with me. VPB too, actually.

[Vi]

RECKONER would have at least waited that both scum be on his wagon until trying to off himself for the benefit of his partners. This is just common sense.

This means that VPB, who hammered after RECKONER voted himself, could be town. Or RECKONER voting himself could have been a signal for VPB to hammer.

But Serialclergyman comes out town out of this because he hopped off the RECKONER wagon.

You lost me.
IMO any theory that involves secret scum plans (i.e. signals) is a bad theory.
Also, SerialClergyman jumping off the xRx wagon would be what scum who saw a chance to

not

bus would do.

---

@DDD: How about that WIFOM from xRx's death?

---

I don't think sandoscum would wait so long to defend a buddy who was at L-1.

xRx wasn't at L-1 for very long when Sando posted.

Plus, when you said "let's lynch teh rex", your vote put him halfway to a lynch at that time. There were only two votes after yours, and one of those was doing exactly what you said.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@DDD: How about that WIFOM from xRx's death?

What exactly do you mean?

[Vi]

@DDD: How about that WIFOM from xRx's death?

What exactly do you mean?

You said that you were willing to look at xRx's dying words (lynch teh DDD and teh Veep-Beep) regardless of how he flipped. Have you drawn a conclusion?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@DDD: How about that WIFOM from xRx's death?

What exactly do you mean?

You said that you were willing to look at xRx's dying words (lynch teh DDD and teh Veep-Beep) regardless of how he flipped. Have you drawn a conclusion?

Half of it's upper crap and the other half is about the only thing not confirming VPB as 100% town in my mind. VPB's reaction at the end of the day and the rest of his play gives me a rather high certainty he's town. However if I was scum in that situation I probably would've thrown out a partner and a townie, that little bit of WIFOM tickles the back of my skull, but I can't put aside the rest of my read over a single comment where can I only assume the difference is due to differing playstyles or simply WIFOM.

[Head_Honcho]

Votecount:

Sando(1): VP Baltar
SerialClergyman(1): Vi
Albert B. Rampage(1): Debonair Danny DiPietro
hitogoroshi(1): Albert B. Rampage

Not Voting(4): Zorblag, SerialClergyman, Sando, hitogoroshi
With 8 alive it's 5 to lynch.

[SerialClergyman]

I get that I didn't 'start' the wagon on Reck. I think that my voting him directly lead to him being put to L-1 within a few votes and drew out reasons without votes from VP. All this doesn't matter, however, because I actively tried to diffuse his wagon afterwards and attacked one of his major attackers in Albert. I think on the whole, it's unreasonable to try to claim town points for pushing Reck's lynch. I was against it at the end, just wrongly so.

My view differs from Albert's. I'll agree about hito and you can have my vote in a sec. I still have a town read on DDD. He was actively pushing Reck before many other people. I don't think it's necessary that both scum were on the wagon.

I think ABR, DDD, Sando are town. That leaves scum between hito, VP, Vi and Troll.

vote hito

[Zorblag]

So at this point I think that our two best lynches are hitogoroshi or SerialClergyman. As I said yesterday, hitogoroshi's vote for Albert B. Rampage over Sando or xRECKONERx when he replaced in (for reasons that look to boil down to because he wouldn't have had enough influence when voting for Sando but would have had too much influence when voting for xRECKONERx) didn't feel particularly natural. Today he's got Albert B. Rampage and Sando still listed as his top suspects but he chooses not to vote at all at the start because voting for Albert B. Rampage would be a waste of his vote because the wagon wouldn't get going yesterday and Sando isn't current around to defend himself. I just don't buy it. How is voting for Albert B. Rampage more a waste of a vote than not voting at all at this point. If he's all over an Albert B. Rampage lynch (which I still don't think is a good move) then there's really no good reason at all not to rest his vote there while he's seeing what others do.

hitogoroshi seems to have gotten a fair amount of credit from people for his initial posts when he placed in looking at everyone in the game. At least I'm assuming that's a big part of why his player spot went from all sorts of attention on Day One to as little as we had on Day Two. It's silly really as the analysis in the initial posts should be a null tell. I know that it's one of the tools I use coming into new games as town or scum (and that it often makes me look much better than it should when I'm replacing in as either alignment.) It's the voting actions that actually have some indication of alignment and his look like scum trying to avoid a partner getting lynched when there was a chance to, a bus when it's unavoidable and now sitting back to be ready to join whichever of two wagons that looks to be the more popular.

With SerialClergyman there are the actions involving xRECKONERx that have been talked about some. The calling for an xRECKONERx lynch (with bonus points for not giving reasons) followed abruptly (two posts later on his part) with a switch to Albert B. Rampage artificially made the xRECKONERx wagon look like it was inevitable and then partially derailed it. If he's scum then he's given himself a great cover for the defending a partner for the rest of the day because, look, he was on the wagon at the start, back when it was probably going to be a lynch. Him now listing Albert B. Rampage on his probably town lynch after using him to leave the xRECKONERx wagon doesn't feel good either.

@SerialClergyman, what's changed your mind on Albert B. Rampage?

Vote: hitogoroshi

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Albert B. Rampage]

DDD, you can't go on ignoring SC and Zorblag anymore. Do they read town or scum to you and why?

[VP Baltar]

Troll, I appreciate what you're saying about hito around the Reck wagon initially and I do agree with you to some extent, but my biggest hang up with him is that Reck was all about lynching PCE on Day 1. He placed his vote there early after replacing and was happy to cruise on it for as long as possible even after I pointed out his inconsistencies with his own list.

Why would a scum be so committed to bussing their partner on Day 1 when he could have gotten onto the charlatan lynch very easily?

My guess is that both of the day one wagons were on town and the scum were trying to split where they landed so as to avoid vote count analysis.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Do you know why RECK voted PCE, VPB? It's because I forced him to. Go back and look.

[VP Baltar]

You didn't force him to do anything. Here's the post:

Unvote, vote porkchopexpress

PRETTEH SCUMMEH

Who's weth meh?

OOOOH ME ME ME

Vote: Porkchop

Wagon, hooooo!

He's quite willing.

[Albert B. Rampage]

If he didn't vote for PCE, that would mean that he was lying about suspecting PCE. So I forced his hand. Look at the context and timing of what you quoted.

[VP Baltar]

I looked at the context. I don't agree with your interpretation.

Furthermore, your post wasn't even directed toward him, so he wouldn't have felt any sort of pressure to vote that way at that time. He could have easily voted on the more popular charlatan wagon without much trouble.

[hitogoroshi]

My view differs from Albert's. I'll agree about hito and you can have my vote in a sec. I still have a town read on DDD. He was actively pushing Reck before many other people. I don't think it's necessary that both scum were on the wagon.

Humor me. What has ABR said about me that makes you think I'm scum?

So at this point I think that our two best lynches are hitogoroshi or SerialClergyman. As I said yesterday, hitogoroshi's vote for Albert B. Rampage over Sando or xRECKONERx when he replaced in (for reasons that look to boil down to because he wouldn't have had enough influence when voting for Sando but would have had too much influence when voting for xRECKONERx) didn't feel particularly natural.

It wasn't about 'too much influence' on the Reck wagon - I just wanted some sort of counterwagon D2. I knew my vote on Sando probably wouldn't result in anyone else jumping aboard, so I joined in on the (then) fast growing ABR wagon.

Today he's got Albert B. Rampage and Sando still listed as his top suspects but he chooses not to vote at all at the start because voting for Albert B. Rampage would be a waste of his vote because the wagon wouldn't get going yesterday and Sando isn't current around to defend himself. I just don't buy it. How is voting for Albert B. Rampage more a waste of a vote than not voting at all at this point. If he's all over an Albert B. Rampage lynch (which I still don't think is a good move) then there's really no good reason at all not to rest his vote there while he's seeing what others do.

The reason is that as soon as I vote for someone, having an 'unvote, vote X' will give the impression that I think X is more scummy than ABR, when in truth ABR is still my top suspect and I'm only not voting him because nothing will come of it at the moment.

@Zorblag: Any chance we can hear what you think about DDD yet?

Random observation: SC thinks Sando is town because he doesn't think he'd try to derail a wagon on a scumbuddy at L-1, when SC himself tried to derail the wagon on xRx.