Seemingly Normal Mafia (Over)

[Fate]

Mod-Edit Votecount 2-4

Nul - 6

(DocPotter, Jack, ElectricBadger, Fate, Toon Fighter, Kyle99)

danakillsu - 5

(Konowa, Seacore, Kairyuu, Haschel Cedricson, Anon)

Toon Fighter - 4

(Nul, farside22, bv310, RichardGHP)

Kyle99 - 1

(danakillsu)

Not Voting - 3

(Anon, Kise, DeeJayCee)

With 19 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.

---

Oh I forgot to add: hidden Super-hated townie=easy, really easy, mislynch.

[Jack]

Someone, in two senteces: why was magnus lynched?

He was a hated townie. And he was a hated townie.

[Anon]

Nul wagon is full of phail.

Basically:

Posting to let everyone know I'm alive.

Unless something happens or toon manages to prove himself innocent, i will not be changing my vote.

An inexperienced scumbag rarely reinforces his vote.

So please dana wagon NAO.

[Jack]

It's not really the nul wagon that's bad. It's the game.

bv310 is just a bad a lurker as nul. Toon is scummy. Dana is scummy but has a scummy meta. Half a dozen other people are terrible lurkers.

unvote, vote:Toon

Things he has against him that other scummy people don't:

1) scummier here than in a game as town, unlike dana
2) actually not totally lurking, selectively lurks when under pressure
3) connections to other people in the game like farside, seacore, people lynching magnus

[Anon]

Jack, have you checked dana's scum meta?

Also the Toon wagon is once again phail.

Basically inexperienced scumbags are reluctant to talk about outing power roles.

[Nul]

Yes, when I made the first vote against Toon I said I was following the crowd.
But can't you people see that I hadn't changed vote? Obviously my reason for voting Toon changed otherwise I would had unvoted when I finished reading the thread.

vote: Toon Fighter
I'll follow the crowd for now.

Need to catch up with the game.

[Fate]

Sorry, must have missed the post in your huge ISO where you said "Yeah, I'm all caught up now. Definitely keeping my vote on Toon."

I'll take your word for it and unvote you now.

[Kairyuu]

Just played way to much MtG. Physics test tomorrow morning. Sleep now, studying later, posting after test.

[bv310]

Just checking in, reading up now.

[Seacore]

What happened to our dana wagon? Gah.

Unvote:dana

Vote: Nul

FOS: Fate

Maintaining Dana vote

[Kise]

FOS: bv310

[RichardGHP]

FOS: bv310

Mind explaining this?

[DocPotter]

BV: 7 posts, 0 content.

[Jack]

Unfortunately you could say the same for half the people playing, including kise.

[ElectricBadger]

To the point, I am not liking EB's self-admitted wagony vote.

I meant what I said. It's a good wagon. Lurkers are anti-town at best, scum at worst. We're plagued by them so far this game and if it takes an example lynch to get half the players posting I'm okay with that. Partway into D2 is the perfect time to harass the hell out of our lurkers as well - particularly since D1 ended so abruptly.

So what exactly do you not like about my vote? That I'm willing to put pressure on lurkers, or that I didn't make up a fake case to do so?

What's your solution to the problem?

But can't you people see that I hadn't changed vote? Obviously my reason for voting Toon changed otherwise I would had unvoted when I finished reading the thread.

Great. Why was 'following the crowd' pro-town? Why did you keep the vote, specifically - what proves Toon is scum? Who else is suspicious? Why aren't you bothering to post?

355 reads as whining, lacking content, and blantantly posting just enough to avoid being replaced.

[danakillsu]

Jack, have you checked dana's scum meta?

I was scum only in one completed game, where I was unable to post for a long time. This was (understandably) seen as lurking, which is why I was lynched. Strangely enough, people seem to think I'm most scummy when I'm actually town.

[danakillsu]

danakillsu have you ever played with Jack before?

No. As is apparent by him calling me "her".

@dana: No, if there was suspicion on me, I'd argue that it's wrong, not attempt to change my behavior so that less people find it scummy. Please provide an argument as to why playing to reduce suspicion on yourself as opposed to playing to lynch scum is pro-town.

And before you accuse me of presenting a false dichotomy, take note that switching your vote because other people don't like it (especially when that is the reason you give for the switch) is the exact scenerio I presented.

Really confusing post here. Uh, I guess I'll just answer the first paragraph, since I'm pretty sure I understand it. If I was town aligned, especially as a town-aligned power role, I would need to reduce suspicion on myself to be able to stay alive long enough to do the town good. Just because that's what I'm doing doesn't automatically mean I'm not scum-hunting, too.

[Konowa]

@EB: Lynching lurkers is fine. I suppose despite you saying that we would need more of a lynch all lurkers mentality that I did not connect that to your vote due to you calling it [the Nul wagon] interesting. Disconnect on my part there. In fact, I would say that if we are going to lynch someone who is actively lurking it should be bv. He has not taken a stance on anything this game and it constantly "catching up, caught up" without saying anything. The fence-sitting (iso post 3) also points to him being scum. Nul is doing the same thing, but I do not see active lurking scum reinforcing a vote like he did. Between him and Nul, I would rather lynch bv. That is all besides the point due to the fact that dana is scum, though.

@dana: Defending yourself is not scummy. Appeasing your attackers, which is what you are doing (as Kairyuu pointed out), is scummy.

[danakillsu]

@dana: Defending yourself is not scummy. Appeasing your attackers, which is what you are doing (as Kairyuu pointed out), is scummy.

Nope. I just don't see the difference between what I'm doing and what anyone else should and would do in my position.
I would still rather lynch kyle99, but that doesn't seem like it's going to happen. My number 2 suspect is nul, after him is Jack.

vote:Nul

[Konowa]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
When did Nul become your number two suspect? In your own words.

As for the difference, I really do not know how better I can explain it. Basically, you are more worried about how people are reading you than anything else.

This is one of the fundamental differences between town and scum in mafia.
Town hunts scum.
Mafia tries to look like town, then they hunt scum.

@all: If we are not going to lynch dana, we should lynch bv.

[ElectricBadger]

@all: If we are not going to lynch dana, we should lynch bv.

Not liking this. The best move to dissuade lurkers is to abandon the first serious pressure on one without any change from Nul?

The point of a lurker wagon is to get them posting; an actual lynch is the last resort. Assuming the pressure works we'll have time to move on to bv after.

[danakillsu]

When did Nul become your number two suspect? In your own words.

When I noticed he was lurking and voting for toon fighter for no reason.

[Kairyuu]

@dana: /sigh

I explained why my demand did not present a false dichotomy, but while claiming you didn't understand that paragraph, you claimed exactly that.

The main point is that you're appeasing your attackers, and doing so at the expense of playing to catch scum. The strongest tool of a town aligned player is the ability to use your vote to eliminate scum during the Day. By shifting a vote YOU stated you would support even though you knew it would cause suspicion on you simply because the suspicion you expected actually happened, you are stating that you are more willing to attempt to buy off suspicion than you are to follow your stated suspicions. That tells me that your priorities are not those of town. For town, the top priority is lynching scum. For scum however, it is far more important to stay alive. If you're going to argue from the position of a town power role, then your win condition is still making the scum dead. It isn't using your role once or twice before dying and then maybe hitting scum also. I've used myself as cannon fodder to nab scum while I was a power role before, and I don't doubt I'll do it again.

Essentially, I'm saying that you're giving up your main tool to catch scum in exchange for the chance to stay alive, and I'm asking you to provide a pro-town argument for keeping yourself alive INSTEAD OF scumhunting. I'm not asking you if that's what you think you're doing. Provide an argument for how it's pro-town, or admit that you're scum.

[Konowa]

See though.

I do not think Nul is scum, so I do not see the reason to pressure him.
I think bv is scum, so let's lynch him.

@dana: What makes Nul different from bv then? I would argue that Nul is more likely town because he has taken a strong stance, which is something I would not see from inexperienced scum. bv is voting Toon after the fence sitting (iso post 3)..........for what?

[ElectricBadger]

I do not think Nul is scum, so I do not see the reason to pressure him.

Lurker town-Nul is as likely to lose us the game in lylo as scum-nul. Probably more likely, in fact.

I think bv is scum, so let's lynch him.

Lacks emphasis when your vote is elsewhere. You don't seem to be pushing for bv's lynch, you seem to be pushing against Nul's wagon, and I dislike that a lot.

I would argue that Nul is more likely town because he has taken a strong stance

Please cite his strong stance.