Mini 914 ~ Mafia Reverberation (Game Over!)

[Gammagooey]

DEM RHINOS:

Little things that bug me-
Iso 1,3, and 4,5:
Overly questioning, seems like he wants other people to make his points for him by agreeing with him about porkens and zoaster
iso 14:again asking questions that very obviously imply his opinions instead of actually just stating his opinion-"But why is that suspect? Is it pro-scum to pretend to be oblivious to a V/LA? "
iso 16: His porkens explanation bugs me. I think the best way to explain it is that it seems kind of like a side note to the rest of the paragraph, like he decided who he was going to vote for first and then bothered finding an explanation for his vote

Bigger things that bug me-
iso 3:
says that he can't blame Juls for suspecting him, then goes into a barrage of questions. No "hey, I'll show you by not being scummy, i just sucked for two posts" or "No that's dumb here's why" but a combination of the two that acknowledges that he's playing poorly with no indication that he intends to improve.

iso 6:
Herod asks hey, clarification on who's scummy/not scummy, rhino responds with a lecture about SECRETS OF SCUMHUNTING, and stating for everyone else to hear that he's not sure if he can support a given hypothetical scenario and adds so many qualifiers to the paragraph that he might as well be planning his way out for the future.

Things that have next to no relevance in regards to scuminess but I really hate it:
ending a paragraph in an ellipsis. It seems like you're waiting for someone to come in and do the work of finishing your paragraph for you and it makes me RAGE.

If we're lynching both MO and Rhinox, they need to cross-vote to ensure no shenanigans.

[Porkens]

Do you expect them to play along and cross-vote?

[Porkens]

Incant: Mighty Orbits

Arrow Rhinox (P-2) ~ Nachomamma8, SpyreX, Herodotus
Arrow Mighty Orbots (P-2) ~ Jahudo, SerialClergyman, Porkens
SerialClergyman (P-2) ~ Jazzmyn, Sotty7, VP Baltar

[Gammagooey]

It would be nice, but since neither of them have posted in 3 days I probably shouldn't expect it. Next best thing would be two people voting to give them the threshold # of votes very close to the intensity increase. When exactly tommorrow does it increase?

[Jahudo]

9pm EST

We could wait until just before that and put both to P-1. I don't think we can count on MO, Rhinox or Jazz, so everyone else would have to be on board.

[Porkens]

This plan begs the question: Would letting yourself get lynched in this situation be pro-town?

[VP Baltar]

Call me old fashioned, but I really only want to lynch two tomorrow. I do suggest that MO and Serial claim though (or whichever two are decided to be lynched by the group).

[Rhinox]

I'm really rather upset about my inactivity in this and all my games right now.

Since it appears I'm on the chopping block to be purged, I'm just going to claim...

I gave hero moychendise. I had 4 different moychendises to choose from, so I can confirm which I gave to hero if need be to confirm my role at least to hero. I wasn't told what the effects would be, if any. I was playing as if the moychendise could either grant abilities or have negative effects like role blocking or killing, so I chose to give the moychendise to a player I wasn't really sure about.

So there you go. If I live long enough, hopefully I'll get around to responding to anything directed towards me.

I still think we should purge porkens.

[VP Baltar]

So your role is Moychendiser then? And your alignment is third party?

[Jahudo]

Win Conditions:

(Dark - Town) You win when all other factions have left the game and one person who shares this Win Condition is alive, or nothing can prevent the same.

(Moychandiser) You win when everyone alive has an item of Spaceballs^TM-themed moychandise, even if you are dead. However, if your removal from the game would cause the Dark Win Condition to be fulfilled, you will exit the game and lose.

We need to purge Rhinox.

MO where are you?

[Nachomamma8]

I'm joining the party now, guys...

MO:
I'm reluctant to lynch a hydra when only half of said hydra is here... If MO is to be involved in the purging, then I say we wait until Zorb shows up (unless he doesn't show up in 3 days or so) before killing.

Papa Zito has been fairly inactive so far, but I really can't rip too much on that, considering I've been one of the more inactive ones here myself. As for the questioning without giving opinions, I'd have to chalk that up to only having half a head, again.

Rhinox:
Rhinox is self-admitted third party. We can purge as many people as we want as once. Why not? Then there's the whole hypocrisy issue, but I don't really need to get into that unless I need to...

Jazzmyn:
Jazz has given more content than I have. Granted, she doesn't have my decidedly lovable personality, but she's still participated in the game a bit more than I have. One of those people who I feel we should give a Day 2 before the purging happens.


SerialClergyman:
His incessant talk about meta bothers me, especially in iso 26. His response when he was starting to come under heavy fire for being under fire was extremely suspicious to me, instead of stopping tunneling or expanding his case on his tunnellee, he sat back and pointed at his meta. MO and Rhinox are suspects that just jump out of the blue, and his former tops (Jahudo, Jazz, [VP/Porkens]), just disappear.

[VP Baltar]

@Nacho

Just for reference, Troll isn't completely inactive on the site. MO should die today.

To be fair to Serial, I think I brought up the meta point first and then he tried to use it as a defense.

Do you have anything to comment on other than the main wagons?

[Rhinox]

No, I am town aligned, not 3rd party. I have the Marketing (A) ability only.

[VP Baltar]

I'd like Hero to confirm if he received something. Even if Rhinox is the Moychendiser, he may not necessarily need to be purged. He could still hunt scum and then be purged later if we need to.

[Herodotus]

Alright, I'll confirm that I was handed moychandise.

Rhinox, do you have any more to say about why you chose me?

[Vi]

Incantation:

:arrow:

Rhinox (P-2)

~

Porkens

,

Nachomamma8

,

Herodotus

,

SpyreX

,

Herodotus

:arrow: Mighty Orbots (P-2) ~

Gammagooey

,

Jahudo

,

VP Baltar

,

SerialClergyman

,

Porkens

:arrow:

SerialClergyman (P-2)

~

Jazzmyn

,

Sotty7

,

VP Baltar

Gammagooey (P-3)

~ Mighty Orbots,

Gammagooey

Porkens (P-4)

~

Rhinox

Sotty7 (P-4)

~

-INCANT-

VP Baltar (P-5)

~

Herodotus

--At Intensity ε, it will take 5 Incants to Purge...
--The Intensity will increase on Wednesday, February 17, 2010...

---Definitely tell me if I messed this incantation count up; I put it together in a hurry <.<

[Mighty Orbots]

Hmm, it appears that I have been missed like Papa Zito said in the quick topic. Let me handle a couple other things in other games and then come back and get re-oriented. Based just on this page I can say that Mighty Orbots will be able to cast a meaningful incantation before the intensity level rises. The Rhinox claim is somewhat fascinating but I'll have to look at a few things before I decide how fascinating. If anyone wants to let me know what other than not being about has been suspicious from Mighty Orbots I'll see if I've got a take on it (though I imagine that I'll figure that out when I'm looking at what's been said.)

I guess for now I can say that one problem with putting three or more people at L-1 and then letting the intensity increase to hit them all is that it likely gives any potential scum in the group the chance to simply finish the purge on non-scum which would be a poor way to end the day even if it did make them an obvious target the next day. If we're going to try to manage something like that we should be doing it for at most two players and they should be cross voting.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[SpyreX]

So...

Rhinox is an A.) Marketing but not the moychendizer.

Huh.....

[Gammagooey]

Ah, and now everyone shows up.

So, I'm gonna list some possibilities based on Rhinox's claim.

1) He's moychandaiser. 3rd party, should be purged because he has no incentive to actually help the town except to stay alive.

2)He's as he claims, a townie with the moychandaising ability. We can test it with the same thing as under 3.

3)He's mafia who's taking advantage of Herod's claim of recieving an item for a convincing fakeclaim with very little risk of being cced, given that if the actual moychandaiser claims he's (he being the actual moychandaiser) probably screwed. Possible solution-ask that his next merchandise thing be given to a small pool of one of 2-3 people. If they don't get one and someone else does, LYANCH.

4)He's mafia with moychandaising ability. Not particularly likely IMO though.

I still think we should lynch him for being scummy, but if he lives past today I think this is the way to test him.

[Nachomamma8]

To be fair to Serial, I think I brought up the meta point first and then he tried to use it as a defense.

I wouldn't mind if SC talked about something more about the meta point. Before that, he spoke about absolutely nothing (save all of about 2 posts), and then when the meta discussion came around, that's pretty much all he's talked about.

Do you have anything to comment on other than the main wagons?

Sure... I'd like someone to explain why 2 is the golden number of lynches, especially if we aren't going to make them crossvote.

@Rhinox: Why did you give Moychendise out on Day 1? The Moychendiser wins when everyone has a piece of moychendise, whether he gives it out or not. In addition, you don't really know what you're doing in giving out the moychendise, so your basically just making the moychendiser's job easier...

[Herodotus]

He's mafia who's taking advantage of Herod's claim of recieving an item for a convincing fakeclaim with very little risk of being cced, given that if the actual moychandaiser claims he's (he being the actual moychandaiser) probably screwed. Possible solution-ask that his next merchandise thing be given to a small pool of one of 2-3 people. If they don't get one and someone else does, LYANCH.

I didn't actually say, earlier, that I'd received merchandise, I just said I knew it existed. I wanted to leave it ambiguous whether I'd gotten something, or I'd investigated someone else who had it. But I suppose one could figure the first was much more likely.
I don't see much point in the test you describe. Whether he's mafia, merchandiser, or town, he could give the merchandise to someone among those 2-3 people.

[Herodotus]

Oh, sorry Gammagooey. I just figured out what you meant.
But I don't think it's likely that he's lying about being the one who handed the merchandise to me.

[Sotty7]

Ah, and now everyone shows up.

So, I'm gonna list some possibilities based on Rhinox's claim.

1) He's moychandaiser. 3rd party, should be purged because he has no incentive to actually help the town except to stay alive.

2)He's as he claims, a townie with the moychandaising ability. We can test it with the same thing as under 3.

3)He's mafia who's taking advantage of Herod's claim of recieving an item for a convincing fakeclaim with very little risk of being cced, given that if the actual moychandaiser claims he's (he being the actual moychandaiser) probably screwed. Possible solution-ask that his next merchandise thing be given to a small pool of one of 2-3 people. If they don't get one and someone else does, LYANCH.

4)He's mafia with moychandaising ability. Not particularly likely IMO though.

I still think we should lynch him for being scummy, but if he lives past today I think this is the way to test him.

Out of all these suggestions I think the 1st is the most likely. I am happy with a Rhinox purge at this point. I don't see how your test him idea even works, lets say he is the moychandaiser and just gives the items to people we say that doesn't prove he is town, just proves he has the ability which puts us right back at square one.

Are we really going to purge three people?

[Jahudo]

Nacho makes a good point. Why help out a potential moychandaiser? Why give Hero an ability they may or may not be good for town? Neither seems like good reasons to use the power.

And Rhinox cross voting with MO/SC wouldn't seem to make sense in his shoes, since he only see Porkens and Nacho as scum. But it would make sense he'd try to quickhammer if the alternative was him and someone else, since he's said he only wants 1 purge per incantation.

But if we have to watch out for a quickhammer, we should make sure its not on Rhinox since it doesn't seem likely he's mafia or a killing role. I think we can still get a good 2'fer today.

[Mighty Orbots]

OK, looking at the possible ways in which Moychendising can be included in the game I don't see any great reason to keep him around. He's either a distraction or a detriment and I've got no qualms about him being purged today offhand. I'm not going to incant him with this post to avoid any P-1 shenanigans just now.

With Zoraster/Gammagooey it seems that Papa Zito disliked some of Zoraster's reactions when he was about more than I do but I wouldn't have had any problem with the Mighty Orbots being there as a day one vote previously. I am more leery of how Gammagooey is treating the hydra now but that's probably because I don't trust people who give me a town read when I've been attacking them for what seem like somewhat marginal reasons. I'll need to talk with Papa Zito to see what his take on their mutual experience is like.

Papa Zito was interested in what SpyreX and Sotty7 were saying about being a double voters of potentially different strengths in large point because Might Orbots has a one shot double vote as well as another ability. If it comes up I'll use that double vote to lynch Rhinox today rather than getting lynched if the game state doesn't change in a way that prevents it, but I think the other ability will be the better one to use today all other things being equal. I say this now so that it won't be a surprise later if it comes up and to allow people to react if they'd like to.

I don't want that to get lost in a huge wall so I'll stop there with this post and continue with another.

TL;DR: Might Orbots is yet another (one shot) double voter who wants to give you a chance to react to this information now.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh