Stars Aligned II - Game Over!

[semioldguy]

@Ilord- Awesome question. I did not think of that one. So the assigned robber can rob 2 graves if needed....good. And we can force someone to rob TWO graves to make sure they did no other actions. Excellent for future planning.

This doesn't ensure them taking other actions. My interpretation of the rule is that every grave rob action is a free action. So you can rob any number of graves and still be left with another action to use.

[startransmission]

I guess it's of no use that I've chasnged my plan to search tomorrow?

Not when you're as untrustworthy as you've proven yourself to be.

[animorpherv1]

And yes Sajin, I agree.

[Adel]

2. they have players from the last Sars game

You speak like you have a list of the scum players in this game. It is hard for Investigators to make such bold assumptions.

you must be new here. How do like mafia so far?


~~~


Ellibereth: always read for yourself, always.

[SlySly]

I believe that it is essential to lynch ani at this point. Riculaulsly anti-town play requires dicipline and punishment by lynch.

I think you are scum that is running scared because Ani has a bullseye on your back. IMO, you have been anti-town so far during this game.

Giving people a pass for being "too scummy to be scum" isn't going to help us win.

He can't

prove

that he can't hammer, so his claim is not verifiable.

Proving his insanity is now pointless. He stalked you. There is no reason to doubt his honesty about his insanity choice. From my view he is obvInvestigator that chose to stalk. It is better to try and lynch scum than to lynch those who are investigators. No way around it.

Unvote

Vote:Adel

[startransmission]

So, if Adel gets killed, kill Ani? But for today leave him alone?

I'm for currently looking elsewhere. I am against making a solid statement of what to do with Animorpherv1 if Adel is or is not successfully/unsuccessfully murdered. The bridge will be crossed when we come to it. Deciding those things now or in advance is speculative and not beneficial to town.

So if Adel isn't killed then what does that prove? What does it prove if he is killed?

I don't understand not making a solid statement about somebody who has lied and who's every move, current and planned, has been anti-town.

[Adel]

IMO, you have been anti-town so far during this game.

prove to us that you are sincere about this.

How did you arrive at that opinion?

Which posts influenced your opinion?

What makes me more antitown than other players?

Why do you think that I shopuld be lynched?

What exactly about my play has been anti-town?

[semioldguy]

So, if Adel gets killed, kill Ani? But for today leave him alone?

I'm for currently looking elsewhere. I am against making a solid statement of what to do with Animorpherv1 if Adel is or is not successfully/unsuccessfully murdered. The bridge will be crossed when we come to it.

Deciding those things now or in advance is speculative and not beneficial to town.

So if Adel isn't killed then what does that prove? What does it prove if he is killed?

See the bolded above. It doesn't prove anything at all except that Adel died or didn't die. Hence: speculative.

[Ellibereth]

Read later.

I warded Dramonic.
I heard Noise.

Wat.

[Iecerint]

Eww. The only way out was if she somehow thought that Stalk was a form of tracking. Then it would make sense to Stalk a perceived skilled player. How obnoxious.

I'll leave my vote, anyway. I don't like being naked, and I don't yet see an obvious alternate target.

I'm not accusing you of scummy intentions, but it is typically a bad idea to tell people what their reasonable explanation should be.

Ani had already indicated that her reason had been something else. That's why I felt OK about saying it.

@ ST -- Yeah, it's highly remote in that positing two scum with this little information is always going to be low-probability. But I think he was awfully quick to come up with that solution after a claim that ultimately "confirmed" current town status on Ani.

[Nicodemus]

Proving his insanity is now pointless. He stalked you. There is no reason to doubt his honesty about his insanity choice. From my view he is obvInvestigator that chose to stalk. It is better to try and lynch scum than to lynch those who are investigators. No way around it.

I'm not quite sure where you get the certainty to make such bold statements. How do we

know

that Ani isn't cult fake-claiming an insanity so that he can kill in the ritual tonight? How are you so sure that Ani is telling the truth about his insanity this time, as opposed to another lie? I am far from convinced that Ani is "obvInvestigator" as you say.

In other news, I think it's silly to lynch anyone other than Ani today. While I understand where Sajin is coming from with the grave robbing, I really would like to refrain from giving such an anti-town and outright scummy player a free ride into D5 or 6, as it would give him far too much time to murder/ritualize if he were so inclined.

[Seacore]

I agree with Nico on this one.

Choosing somebody to be graverobber, based on the idea that they're already insane, that's good.

For it to be somebody as unreliable as Ani

Thats bad

Let's lynch this MoFo

[Seacore]

I nominate Dramonic to be the graverobber.

If what people say is true, he'll be unable to resist being a murderer, in which case, before he can get off his second murder, he'll be swimming with insanities

2 for stalk, one for murder, 2 for grave robbing

[Adel]

I nominate Dramonic to be the graverobber.

2nd

[iLord]

I so totaly missed it. Becuas ei wasn't willing to take a risk.

You do realize that you are taking just as big of a risk by attempting to kill him? That is, unless you can explain how an analyst is somehow more dangerous as scum than beneficial as town. Especially notable is just how influential scumAdel would have proven to be given his influence in the game thread so far.

In other news, I think it's silly to lynch anyone other than Ani today. While I understand where Sajin is coming from with the grave robbing, I really would like to refrain from giving such an anti-town and outright scummy player a free ride into D5 or 6, as it would give him far too much time to murder/ritualize if he were so inclined.

Obviously Ani has to agree to not go murderer or murder Adel first - if he's town, he will listen because its in the best interests of the town, and if he's scum, he can't murder anyway.

If he's a cultist, he will give them another body to use the Ritual with, though, and it's still exceedingly obvious to me that Ani's lying his ass off. Seacore also brings up Ani's inherent unreliability, which sadly is a factor even if he's town. It doesn't appear that Sajin thinks Ani is likely scum, but I may have to disagree with him here.

@Sajin: Thoughts on Ani providing a body for Cultists and possibly not robbing a grave even as town? He's already proven to be exceptionally irrational.

[VP Baltar]

Sajin's plan is the most appropriate route. I also don't think ani is anything other than town who wanted to become murderer down the line. Forcing him to rob graves prevents him carrying out any other action once we have two or more bodies at night. This will happen after N1 and probably every night after that if we have people go murderer.

Assigning him two people to rob the grave of 1) cuts him off at the knees 2) makes him verifiable via insanity count and/or failure to rob named graves 3) gives town much needed alignment information.

Additionally, forcing him to rob graves means that he has a big target painted on his back by the various scums since they do not want extra information flowing into the town's hands.

He's the perfect choice for this. Now, I know you're thinking that he can just rob the grave and murder Adel tonight (WIFOM: wasn't me!), but I'll stop you right there because I warded Adel last night and unless someone warded me Adel can rest easy that he's not going to die at the hands of Ani tonight.

If someone did ward me, then it may be a good idea to say so. Otherwise, Sajin's plan is far superior.

The people pushing ani's lynch as being the only choice today are a good place to start looking for scum.

Unvote, Vote: Ellibereth

Also, Adel, your info dump idea later isn't going to work because you'll be missing a ton of night actions from the dead. You won't be able to coordinate anything from your plan.

[iLord]

If a person's stalk fails due to ward, would they be notified?

It would seem weird otherwise since they would have to know whether or not they are able to attempt to murder the following night.

[VP Baltar]

I thought it said somewhere in the rules that all failed actions are not notified, but still take an insanity.

[iLord]

I thought it said somewhere in the rules that all failed actions are not notified, but still take an insanity.

That's what I thought, but then it occurred to me that someone would've have to know whether or not their Stalk was successful before they could proceed to attempting to Murder, else they could attempt to use Murder when it would be an illegal action (Illegal in that Percy did no list Murder among the available actions on N0, but listed the even more pointless Launder).

[VP Baltar]

Fair enough. If you're right, then I'll probably concede that ani should be lynched today.

[vikingfan]

Baltar, there's one thing. The OP states that if you Stalk, you will be told if it works out or not right away. There's nothing from ani's post to make me believe it did not go through. Ani, want to speak up on this?

In any case, one of three possibilities come up: VP is lying, Ani is lying again (even MORE stupidly since his stalking wouldn't have worked), or VP got warded.

The OP says this, specificially:

If your action fails for any reason, you will be informed via PM (with Ward being the only exception).

[SlySly]

prove to us that you are sincere about this.

How did you arrive at that opinion?

Which posts influenced your opinion?

What makes me more antitown than other players?

Why do you think that I shopuld be lynched?

What exactly about my play has been anti-town?

Follow along...

I'm not claiming day 2.

Noise, action and insanity claims in the first game led to an overwhelming town victory. What better alternative do you suggest? A hardline stance against claims providing a tracking system for the town seems a little anti-town to me.

Prerefusal to help the town going forward. Anti-town.

Avoiding my question, Anti-town. Given, you

much

later answered a similar question.

-------------------

Obviously, a person who played in the first game is cult in this game, and they decided to go with the full claims pronto.

Show me where it is obvious that players from the first game are scum in this game. It's not. Mere speculation. I was in the first game and I am not scum. I'm not saying there are no players from the first game on the scum team in this one, but I don't see how you can say it is obvious that is the case in this game. Nothing more than an assumption on your part, or you have inside information because you are scum.

-------------------

I give up. I stalked Adel.

Reasoning:

Adel is a good player -> What if he's cult -> If he is we're all screwed.

vote:animorpherv1

Wagon jump on obvTown player. Anti-town.

--------------------

2. they have players from the last Sars game

Same assumption as before, see above.

--------------------

I believe that it is essential to lynch ani at this point.

Panic at realization there is target on your back so you push to eliminate and obvTown player. Anti-town.

He can't

prove

that he can't hammer, so his claim is not verifiable.

Try to discredit obvTown player by bringing up a useless point. Anti-town.

--------------------

I'm for lynching him quickly and moving on to night before this spam fest leaves us with 75 pages of nosie.

Repeated panic and move for lynch of obvTown player for self-preservation reasoning. Anti-town.

I'm still not going to claim anythign on day 2.

Repeated prerefusal to help the town going forward. Anti-town.

[Adel]

panic? lol.

Show me where it is obvious that players from the first game are scum in this game. It's not. Mere speculation. I was in the first game and I am not scum. I'm not saying there are no players from the first game on the scum team in this one, but I don't see how you can say it is obvious that is the case in this game. Nothing more than an assumption on your part, or you have inside information because you are scum.

or I know something that you don't.

[iLord]

Baltar, there's one thing. The OP states that if you Stalk, you will be told if it works out or not right away. There's nothing from ani's post to make me believe it did not go through. Ani, want to speak up on this?

In any case, one of three possibilities come up: VP is lying, Ani is lying again (even MORE stupidly since his stalking wouldn't have worked), or VP got warded.

Ah, okay. For some reason, I had the opposite impression. If anyone warded Baltar, they should probably say so now. Otherwise, Ani's shown once more to be a filthy liar.

@SlySly: You're stretching. Adel's behavior's in no way indicative of scum. From what I see, he's simply terse and confident.

[SlySly]

I'm not quite sure where you get the certainty to make such bold statements. How do we

know

that Ani isn't cult fake-claiming an insanity so that he can kill in the ritual tonight? How are you so sure that Ani is telling the truth about his insanity this time, as opposed to another lie? I am far from convinced that Ani is "obvInvestigator" as you say.

He can be checked with Occult Books. If he has no insanity, he is lying scum. If he does, he is either idiot town or stalker town. Town = worse lynch than scum. Pushing for town instead of scum hunting = proScum. I think he has an insanity NOW and was just trying to explain it off. I am more than willing to believe he stalked.

In other news, I think it's silly to lynch anyone other than Ani today.

I think it is silly to lynch obvtown player when there is scum to lynch.