Mini 914 ~ Mafia Reverberation (Game Over!)

[SpyreX]

Less testing, more praying.

[Porkens]

read gamma in iso.; i retract wht i said about his opin of rhinox. that crossvote business still rankles me

[Gammagooey]

Eh, we've got two scum down by the start of day 2, losing a double vote isn't the worst thing in the world.

Okay for this next part I'm mostly going through VP's iso so if there's some important context I missed point it out to me.

In his iso 58 he incants MO because of someone else's argument, I'm assuming Jahudo's.
In 65, he goes back to SC, although he does add a comment about me-SC-MO scumteam.

I don't see his own reasoning for wanting to lynch MO until iso 75, and less than a (real-time) day later he states that he's having misgivings about voting MO, and MO isn't even mentioned in any of the madness-time compromises he suggests for the day's lynchings. I personally think that that was a bus on MO that he gave up when Rhinox was looking like the more likely to be lynched between the two.

[Gammagooey]

Ho <redacted> I might have just realized something.

Herod has Destiny Bond and Summon.
Herod also thought VP was lying about something.
Herod might have given either a doublevote or a different ability to VP, and thought he was lying about either how he has two double votes or that he would become a vanilla after using double vote twice.

[VP Baltar]

Well that was certainly a mixed bag. At least I was right about MO. Hero really should have kept his mouth shut since I'm assuming he was killed as WIFOM so my purge could be pushed today.

Gamma speculating about what hero had to say is quite scummy.


I'm fine with being purged today if people have doubts about me, but I want my scum read to go with me.

I'll be doing a proper reread in light of flips later today.

[Gammagooey]

Say whatcha want, I'm just trying to put the pieces together.

If Herod thought you were lying before twilight, I think he would have mentioned it sometime before then.
The comment came after Hero asked you:
"Why did you make a full role claim during twilight? That doesn't seem very helpful."
Your answer that started with "Because" certainly seems to state that it was a full roleclaim.
His abilities seem to give a reason why he would suspect you of lying about that.

Of course, this could all be one big misunderstanding, so have one post to show that you're innocent.

Was the description of your role that you gave in twilight a full claim?
If so, did you get the second doublevote in another PM after your first role PM?

[Rhinox]

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

[VP Baltar]

Was the description of your role that you gave in twilight a full claim?
If so, did you get the second doublevote in another PM after your first role PM?

It wasn't the entirety of my abilities. What is left may end up being revealed today. I've always had two double votes from my first PM.

[Jazzmyn]

I'm betting our two last scum in Gamma, Jazz, Porkens, and Jah.

What makes you think there are two more scum? Do you know something the rest of us don't know?

I'm suspicious of Spy, Gamma and Jahudo for purging Sotty. There was no good reason for it, and there was no good reason for a triple purge. I don't like the sneaky way VP pulled out his doublevote to ensure a triple purge, but I can't fault him for his target since I thought SC was scum, too.

They can't all be scum, though, and I still have a town read on Jahudo so I'm going to have to think about this some more and look at who was distancing/bussing during the purge before I incant.

Regards,
Jazz

[VP Baltar]

marker

[Gammagooey]

So how does "wasn't the entirety of my abilities" mesh with this exactly?

I can do this twice

before I become vanilla.

[SpyreX]

This is an interesting question.

[VP Baltar]

It's not very interesting, Spy, but I'll go ahead anyhow:

So how does "wasn't the entirety of my abilities" mesh with this exactly?

I can do this twice

before I become vanilla.

Primarily it was to avoid the NK if I was right about SC. I wanted to make myself seem like less of a threat.

Secondly, I have one additional (A) ability on top of my double votes. Given I can only use one (A) ability a day, I planned to use my additional ability at some point during this phase and would thus be out of abilities whenever I chose to use my last double vote after that.

[Gammagooey]

Also, you know what's pretty great? Me saying I thought Herod was right about you lying, you saying I'm scummy for saying so, and then you admitting that you lied.

That's pretty great alright.

[Jahudo]

I can see how my attitude towards MO makes me look scummy, but Rhinox? He was the most suspicious of anyone to me and I pushed pretty hard to help get him lynched

When you replaced in both MO and Rhinox were at P-1. A scumbuddy would have to bus at least one in that scenario. But that, itself, doesn't mean your scum.

This occurred in the same day that Gamma replaced in:

If it comes up I'll use that double vote to lynch Rhinox today rather than getting lynched if the game state doesn't change in a way that prevents it

So a scumbuddy would have known around that time that bussing Rhinox and saving MO was likely their plan.

When Sotty became a viable purge in place of MO, Gamma jumped without hesitation.

SUDDENLY,
Incant:Sotty

The thing with MO being willing to single hammer Rhino is a bit scummy, but I like Sotty lyanch better than him mostly on gut from Sotty's early posts.

A 3-way adding MO lynch just doesn't seem like it would end well to me

I support Rhino/Sotty for the lynchings.

And continued to support a Rhinox purge.

So I can see Gamma as a possible scumbuddy.[/mech]

[VP Baltar]

How am I admitting I'm lying? I just pointed out that my double vote is going to be the last of my abilities to resolve and then I become vanilla. Just because I didn't include every step in between does not mean I lied.

So, you know what's great, how you're scum trying to push what you think is an easy mislynch.


On to important things, did anyone get neighborized by MO? If you did, I suggest you claim so.

[VP Baltar]

Good posting my Jahudo. Glad to see my town read continually being confirmed there.

[Jahudo]

And I feel less confident that VP is light mafia scumbuddy. He decreased his suspicion of both MO and Rhinox on page 23, which looks like risky play because it would have helped Rhinox and MO survive past that day.

Orbots is causing me to have misgivings on this page. I may be willing to go back to a SC/Rhinox purge.

I don't really see Rhinox as being important at all since he's not likely scum.

VP: Does "scum" here mean mafia or any scum?


So I'll look at Jazz and Gamma again and most likely incant one of them next. I don't see anyone else as scummy.

[Gammagooey]

Here's the thing VP. I still think you're lying, but at the very least, you are/were deliberately misleading people about your role, which I do not see as anything resembling town behavior.

In addition, you put your own survival and opinions over the well-being of everyone else, both with the twilight claim (can you honestly say that we'd be worse off with you gone instead of Herod, who we both thought was town even as we're attacking each other now) and with the last second double vote to get your way on the lynch.

Earlier, you said

I am of the pretty strong opinion that we should not purge more than two players, at least for the first phase. Not knowing what will happen in the night phase is a big variable that I would like to see before we push more purges than that at a time."

but you didn't even follow your own words and threw another townie into the fire.

You got off both Rhino and MO's backs after they had claimed, not offering MO in any of the compromise lynches you suggested even with your 2nd biggest case on him, and I think you figured Rhino was screwed eventually anyway.

In the last few minutes (15ish before the lynch), you ordered people around to try and arrange a last minute Sotty/SC lynch, one of the only suggested ones that would have landed no scum at all.

I just do not see that being town play in the slightest.

[VP Baltar]

VP: Does "scum" here mean mafia or any scum?

I was referring to mafia. I was still entertaining Rhinox as a third party, but I didn't see him as a priority, which I believe I had stated.

[VP Baltar]

Here's the thing VP. I still think you're lying, but at the very least, you are/were deliberately misleading people about your role, which I do not see as anything resembling town behavior.

You said I lied. Additionally, you tried to imply that hero saw the same thing when HE COULD NOT HAVE KNOWN WHAT MY ABILITES ARE.

There was nothing anti-town about my behavior whatsoever. That information was of no use to the town at that time and would have only helped the scum.

In addition, you put your own survival and opinions over the well-being of everyone else

This is a ridiculous exaggeration of the situation.

can you honestly say that we'd be worse off with you gone instead of Herod, who we both thought was town even as we're attacking each other now

It's not my fault hero said something stupid and the scum (you) killed him today to try and make me look bad.

you didn't even follow your own words and threw another townie into the fire.

I did want only two purges, but the shift by MO at the end of the day made me really unhappy. I saw MO and SC as likely buddies and if the lynch had gone that way and I was right, both of them would have gotten away scot free. I wanted to take one down so I could catch the other one the next day. I was only 50% correct, sue me.

You got off both Rhino and MO's backs after they had claimed, not offering MO in any of the compromise lynches you suggested even with your 2nd biggest case on him, and I think you figured Rhino was screwed eventually anyway.

My views on rhino were made very clear throughout the day. I wasn't even really "on his back" to begin with, just that I thought he could be third party and wasn't of a huge concern. And are you really trying to argue that I didn't want MO to go after I had been pushing for him most of the day? My prefered lynch yesterday was MO/SC, I said that multiple times and most every ignored me or said that they saw MO as town (you). I can't lynch someone myself.

In the last few minutes (15ish before the lynch), you ordered people around to try and arrange a last minute Sotty/SC lynch, one of the only suggested ones that would have landed no scum at all.

Someone had to get lynched and that was the compromise that had been reached. I wasn't happy about it at all as I was pretty sure that Sotty was town, but if she had to go to get my top suspect lynched, so be it.

How is it not town play to try and get a lynch organized properly?


I actually want to look back specifically at that final bit and see when Gamma was posting and what he was saying. I think if he is scum during that chaos phase it should be fairly obvious if he was trying to be subtle in his lynch direction.

In the meantime, Gamma, what benefit do you think I as light assassian would have gained by voting SC like I did? What would be my motivation to do that?

[Jahudo]

VP, are you saying that Hero could not have given you an ability with his Summon power? Did you get any abilities during the incantation, or has your role not changed since pregame?

[VP Baltar]

I did receive my extra ability during the day, so I guess it could have potentially come from hero...but the ability I received makes me think it wouldn't have come from him. I know that doesn't make a lot of sense probably, but I need to think about if I should be revealing any information beyond that right now.

[Gammagooey]

Sorry for the wall of text in advance.

You said I lied. Additionally, you tried to imply that hero saw the same thing when HE COULD NOT HAVE KNOWN WHAT MY ABILITES ARE.

Did you read the description for the abilities he had? He could give an ability to someone at the beginning of every incantation. If he had given one to you, he would have known that and that you were either lying or hiding something from the rest of us.

There was nothing anti-town about my behavior whatsoever. That information was of no use to the town at that time and would have only helped the scum.

Yes, which is why you shouldn't have claimed to become vanilla after your double vote in the first place.

In addition, you put your own survival and opinions over the well-being of everyone else

This is a ridiculous exaggeration of the situation.

I don't think it is. Drawing the night kill away from you will only make it hit another townie, and you put your wants over everyone else's when you brought the double vote up out of nowhere.

can you honestly say that we'd be worse off with you gone instead of Herod, who we both thought was town even as we're attacking each other now

It's not my fault hero said something stupid and the scum (you) killed him today to try and make me look bad.

I don't think Herod is stupid. I know he thought you were lying about something. If you think my theory is dumb, give me a new one, but him giving you an ability and thinking you were lying about it makes the most sense to me.

you didn't even follow your own words and threw another townie into the fire.

I did want only two purges, but the shift by MO at the end of the day made me really unhappy. I saw MO and SC as likely buddies and if the lynch had gone that way and I was right, both of them would have gotten away scot free. I wanted to take one down so I could catch the other one the next day. I was only 50% correct, sue me.

If you had actually stated your intentions beforehand, I would have probably been okay with the triple lynch. Instead you kept a secret, and hid your intentions from everyone while telling them to get on SC, forcing it when you couldn't get popular support.

You got off both Rhino and MO's backs after they had claimed, not offering MO in any of the compromise lynches you suggested even with your 2nd biggest case on him, and I think you figured Rhino was screwed eventually anyway.

My views on rhino were made very clear throughout the day. I wasn't even really "on his back" to begin with, just that I thought he could be third party and wasn't of a huge concern. And are you really trying to argue that I didn't want MO to go after I had been pushing for him most of the day? My prefered lynch yesterday was MO/SC, I said that multiple times and most every ignored me or said that they saw MO as town (you). I can't lynch someone myself.

Here's the thing. I want you to go back to the votecounts, and look at who's voting for MO and when. I may have been wrong about MO, but they guy I replaced (zoaster) sure as hell wasn't. From Vi's iso 17 votecount to iso 30, he was the first person to vote for MO, and until after the iso 30 votecount was only ever joined by one other person (Sotty). You were the P-2 vote, and dropped off the wagon same day I replaced zoaster and left the wagon so Rhino (who was in fact scum) wouldn't be able to hammer MO. I see this as a bus that you dropped off of when it looked like he had a decent chance of living.

In the last few minutes (15ish before the lynch), you ordered people around to try and arrange a last minute Sotty/SC lynch, one of the only suggested ones that would have landed no scum at all.

Someone had to get lynched and that was the compromise that had been reached. I wasn't happy about it at all as I was pretty sure that Sotty was town, but if she had to go to get my top suspect lynched, so be it.

How is it not town play to try and get a lynch organized properly?


I actually want to look back specifically at that final bit and see when Gamma was posting and what he was saying. I think if he is scum during that chaos phase it should be fairly obvious if he was trying to be subtle in his lynch direction.

In the meantime, Gamma, what benefit do you think I as light assassian would have gained by voting SC like I did? What would be my motivation to do that?

See, to me i viewed the Rhino/Sotty lynch as the compromise that just about everyone agreed on, with you being the most vocal dissenter. Instead of letting the other people who hadn't yet voted decide which of the three to lynch, you specifically told them to go to either Sotty or SC. If anyone WASN'T getting lynched by people following your orders, it would have been Rhinox.

The obvious benefit would have been to get another townie lynched, and although you had looked suspicious MO would still be alive, with a lot of distancing from both your and Rhinox's scummy behavior, and could hopefully carry your team to the win, especially if you could delay your lynch by one more day.

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VP if Herod gave it to you (which is what I've been trying to say all day) it would have had to be given out in the first 48 hours of the incantation and it would have been one of 3 abilities chosen by Vi, I wouldn't really be suprised if it seemed kind of random.

[VP Baltar]

VP if Herod gave it to you (which is what I've been trying to say all day) it would have had to be given out in the first 48 hours of the incantation and it would have been one of 3 abilities chosen by Vi, I wouldn't really be suprised if it seemed kind of random.

Trust me, it makes no sense for hero to have given me the ability he did.

I had read the abilities briefly this morning when I glanced at the flips, but I obviously didn't correctly recall who had what. Regardless of that, it still seems less than likely that my ability came from hero, though I will admit that it is not outside the realm of possibility and something I need to consider now.


I never called hero stupid, I said he said something stupid while we were in twilight that would obviously make him more of a target. I don't have a theory about what he was talking about, and I can see why you think yours fits.

To give you my perspective, however, I think I will claim what I received so you can see where i'm coming from. At the start of Incantation I, I received the Summon ability. I find it strange that Hero would choose that ability to pass on to me if he had three to select from unless he got a really weird set of three abilities. I don't know why a town player would give someone he doesn't have much of a read on at that point the chance to potentially give his buddies an added boost. I have used my summon ability already today, but I don't want the person who received the ability to claim so. Even if I need to be purged today along with someone else today, I don't know if it would be worthwhile.

Here's the thing. I want you to go back to the votecounts, and look at who's voting for MO and when. I may have been wrong about MO, but they guy I replaced (zoaster) sure as hell wasn't. From Vi's iso 17 votecount to iso 30, he was the first person to vote for MO, and until after the iso 30 votecount was only ever joined by one other person (Sotty). You were the P-2 vote, and dropped off the wagon same day I replaced zoaster and left the wagon so Rhino (who was in fact scum) wouldn't be able to hammer MO. I see this as a bus that you dropped off of when it looked like he had a decent chance of living.

Here's the thing, zoraster wasn't even in this game hardly at all. He voted him on Feb. 2 and his last post was on Feb. 5. You are so full of shit for acting like zoraster was pushing an MO wagon. Plz die scum.

Incant: Gammagooey

The obvious benefit would have been to get another townie lynched, and although you had looked suspicious MO would still be alive, with a lot of distancing from both your and Rhinox's scummy behavior, and could hopefully carry your team to the win, especially if you could delay your lynch by one more day.

So you think the scum strategy was for 1 partner to bus hard and the other to defend hard. And then in the final seconds of the first day I rushed to get one extra mislynch in there, thus forcing my buddy to bus me the next day and then we'd hope against hope that he could go through to the end on that bussing cred. You sir have an active imagination.