Stars Aligned II - Game Over!

[Faraday]

I'll devote an hour or 3 to re-read this thread either later tonight or tomorrow. Promise

[semioldguy]

I was at a convention these past two days. I've got some catching up to do, I'll make a post at the end of the day today to let you know how far I've come and some thoughts up to that point.

[Katy]

I thought Nico's response to the case on him was pretty okay. I'm still suspicious of the fact that he didn't seem to know the rules for ward, but I think I want to put pressure elsewhere for the moment. I got a scummy feeling off of Katy's first few posts.

Again though, I have to reread some things. Many people seem to believe Adel/Hayker to be solidly town and I have to see why. I also need to reread Nicodemus to see why he is such a popular lynch choice.

This is odd, because she's read enough of the game to know people's opinions on Adel/Hayker (and have town reads on Sajin and Elli), but her wording is completely neutral. Seems strange that you'd have no opinion at all even after a superficial read (especially if she's been keeping up with the game). Feels like scum wanting to be able to go either way.

Except that post was explaining why my read was neutral? I had been keeping up with the game to a certain extent but not nearly the same type of attention I give a game when I was playing. That quote you pulled out was me saying areas that I needed to take a closer look at because I had missed them. When I said skimming, I really meant skimming - I had been keeping up with major events in case I was called in after many pages, I wouldn't be totally lost, but I wasn't reading every post or noting down things.

My opinion was neutral because at that point I hadn't read closely enough to feel confident in placing any vote.

In addition, she's been pretty wishy-washy on both major wagons, leaving herself able to jump on both.

Except that I didn't jump on either? My vote is on Hayker. In any given game I will have players that are at the top of my scum list, players I think are town, while players that I am neutral about I remain cautious about. I am in general a fairly cautious player. I like to think about it before I place a vote and I tend to be paranoid and keep open the possibility that any player could be scum unless they are confirmed town.

I disagree insofar that I'm completely convinced Adel was town

Can you explain why you are completely convinced? Even if you disagree that trying to keep town from sharing info is scummy, I don't see how he was strongly town, but it's possible I missed something.

[Iecerint]

And I don't think whether or not a player supported Elli's plan is a tell either way.

Given that scum can daytalk and they probably have at least 1 veteran of SA1, I would not be surprised if players' reaction to Elli's plan were indicative of something. Scum probably have guidance from at least 1 player who has insight into how the game might be structured and into what kinds of strategies may or may not be effective for town and/or scum.

That said, it's anyone's guess with regard to how what attitude(s) toward the plan should be interpreted as scummy AFAIK.

[DrippingGoofball]

Katy isn't scum. I cannot wait any longer for CSL, my newly found spiritual leader.

For now I'll

unvote, vote: startramission

[vikingfan]

What on earth do you mean, DGB?

[DrippingGoofball]

What on earth do you mean, DGB?

Hey! More scum! I found another one!

[elvis_knits]

unvote; vote nicodemus

[startransmission]

Hey what do you say we vote for startransmission instead of Icerink? When poked, startransmission flinches like scum.

When was I poked and when did I flinch?

[Iecerint]

unvote; vote nicodemus

Why don't you want to vote me anymore? Cuz DGB says so?

You have at least as much information about my meta as Katy, so it can't be that.

[elvis_knits]

unvote; vote icerunt

[Iecerint]

Now you're just being childish.

Answer my question.

[Phate]

Can you explain why you are completely convinced? Even if you disagree that trying to keep town from sharing info is scummy, I don't see how he was strongly town, but it's possible I missed something.

If the biggest read you've taken away from Adel is his annoyance at the town noiseclaiming without his permission at the beginning of d1, you need to reread the thread. Adel played completely in-character, to the point of replacing out and throwing a bit of a fit when the mod told him he wasn't allowed to break the game. That's not scum behavior in general, and definitely not for Adel.

[Iecerint]

^ I agree with Phate. Hate to admit it. There's maybe a bit of misrepresentation of the cause of the fit, but I don't see a scum motive in that, really.

[elvis_knits]

Your question, Iecerint?

You mean the flamer that baited me? Did I unvote you because dgb told me to??

No, I did not unvote you because dgb told me to.

I unvoted you because I think Nico's misunderstanding of the ward power is pretty scummy. Also, Iwas having some doubts that you are scum. However, you have allayed all my fears. Baiting me for

unvoting

you is scummy to the max.

1)Your insistence on pushing the scummy plan was bad, but what is worse is how you tried to push people into accepting the plan and accepting it fast. Implying people who don't sign onto the elli plan immediately are either dumb (and shouldn't be listened to) or scum.

The plan is kinda a no-brainer IMO. It is both simple to understand and intuitively simple to implement. The people who either can't understand it or don't think it would work should indicate what is challenging to understand or why it will not work. It looks like people are trying to cast doubt on a clearly-powerful plan because they have no other means of undermining it.

2) Your secret scumtell business is scummy. If you can't talk about it, then you can't use it as a reason. A scum can call "secret scumtell" on anyone they want and then say "ongoing game sorry can't explain." You will not get away with that BS with me.
2a)Then you took back a secret scumtell on seacore because Katy replaced him! Are you buddying Katy or what?

3) Also, you keep character assasinating me. It is very underhanded and scummy. It is a way to neutralize my contributions to this game. I don't apreciate it.

EK. Either she is quite dumb, or she has an anti-town ulterior motive.

EK, I'm a bit surprised at you. I can kind of understand VP picking a favorite target and tunneling, even if the timing of his escalation was very suspicious, but your involvement puzzles me. Namely, your explanations of my scuminess are either myopic in ways I do not associate with your play, or hinge on the scuminess of other players.

EK, I'm a bit surprised at you. I can kind of understand VP picking a favorite target and tunneling, even if the timing of his escalation was very suspicious, but your involvement puzzles me. Namely, your explanations of my scuminess are either myopic in ways I do not associate with your play, or hinge on the scuminess of other players.

AtE

Well, more specifically, your interpretation of my post encouraging people who are confused/"confused"/skeptical/"skeptical" to voice their concerns a bit more explicitly was incredibly myopic, and your lengthy discussion of why Ell is a nasty man was the example that hinged on other players' actions. I thought the events were recent enough that I wouldn't have to cross-supply the posts that explicitly for you.

You

whined

about me doing the latter in Nouns mafia not too long ago (we were both town), so it is surprising to see you do as much.

I think EK's reasoning in this game is weaker than in other games I've played with her (including Nouns mafia, where she thought I was scum until midway D2), though, and I think it may be deliberate, so I'm comparatively skeptical about her being town.

Constant references to me either being dumb or scum, and then your latest reasoning that I am playing so dumb that I cannot be serious, that it is some scum ploy on my part to act deliberately stupid. How is that for WIFOM unsubstantiated reasoning?

I really don't think I have been acting stupid, so stop fucking saying that.

[DrippingGoofball]

Hey what do you say we vote for startransmission instead of Icerink? When poked, startransmission flinches like scum.

When was I poked and when did I flinch?

Right before I voted you...

[DrippingGoofball]

elvis and icerink = town on town action.

I just realized I'm homotownophobic.

[elvis_knits]

elvis and icerink = town on town action.

Are you sure?

But he's being such a jerk.

[Iecerint]

There's nothing "baiting" about that. You unvoted me without explanation in circumstances where none of your concerns about me had been addressed. The only new information about me since your last comment about me has been Katy's claim that this matches my town meta, which I've already indicated is unlikely to have accounted for your apparent change of heart. (She's probably thinking of the Newbie game we played in together; I wallposted over and over and over again, and her scumfriend DDD managed to use it against me. That mirrors my high post volume in this game, even if the posts aren't as lengthy here.) So I wanted an explanation from you.

Why is it scummy to ask someone why they unvoted them?

That's the 3rd time you've pushed the same misrepresentation of that quote. Even if you think my actual intent was bizarre or whatever, you could at least acknowledge that this is an old issue for the benefit of those playing along at home.

EK, I think you're a GREAT player, and not dumb at all. That's why I think you're likely scum in this game! I have a hard time believing that you would pursue some of the reasoning you have pursued unless you had an ulterior motive for doing so. That 4th quote you provided with the rhetorically-added emphasis provides 2 specific examples. Scum have to be a little bit dumb from time to time, particularly with their scumhunting -- hopefully in sneaky ways -- because they are coming up with total bull.

I will elucidate the secret scumtells as soon as I am able. If that doesn't satisfy you, I should point out that I also used secret scumtells as town in Kingdom Hearts mafia. It was against Cobalt after he transparently tried to get me to talk about an ongoing game under the pretense that he had forgotten that it existed.

[Ellibereth]

Yerk vs. Elvis is town vs. town. Ierc, just drop the secret scumtell stuff and never mention it again unless you decided to make it not-secret kthx.
Let's not get sidetracked and focus on LurkerscumNicodemus please.

^^^ I agree! Change Nico to start though!
For Handy Reference:
TOWN
Hayker
Ani
Elli
elvis
Phate
VP
Wick
Chaco
iLord
Katy
Sea
Ice
Sajin
vikingfan
Sly

EVERONE ELSE
Magua
CSL
dramonic
Drench
evilsnail
Faraday
Nicodemus
Sarag
semioldguy
startransmission

[vikingfan]

Katy and Sea are the same, Ellibereth. But otherwise I agree with you.

Nic utterly fails to convince me.

vote nic

[DrippingGoofball]

But he's being such a jerk.

That's how I know he's town, if he were scum, he would be sending you flowers and bonbons.

[Iecerint]

What can I say? I like Katy. I'd do the same thing if it were DGB or tajo (or you, honestly, in any prior setting). Or other players, I'm sure. It's irrational, but I like playing with players I like. Also, keep in mind that SC's secret scumtell ended up being much weaker than I had at first perceived. (NB: That is NOT true of Phate's.)

Also, I asked Katy to replace into an impossible situation in Twilight mafia a few months ago and then hammered her within a page of her having done so after she'd read about 12 pages. (I was fakehammering her -- I didn't unvote -- but I neglected to explicitly let the Mod know about this.) I still feel really really awful about that, and that will probably cloud my judgment regarding her in the short term.

[vikingfan]

although with the exception that since we're not executing the plan, I'm not sure I can trust Elli not to turn murderer at some point.

[DrippingGoofball]

Katy and Sea are the same, Ellibereth. But otherwise I agree with you.

Nic utterly fails to convince me.

vote nic

Hello scum, do you come here often?

*wink wink*