Open 201 - Fire & Ice Mafia ~Over~

[CSL]

Ugh. kmd4390, I'm using you as an example. I have said time and time again that alignments are confirmed at lynch, modkill, or nightkill scene. Read my damn posts. Mod word is law, people.

This will end the day. All scum may talk in their QTs. Mod scene forthcoming.

[CSL]

Modkill 2, now with Halo 3 References!

You all just LOVE your lives, don't you? Even the plasma grenade incident didn't faze you!

kmd ignores the Mod's warning, and starts talking about stuff the mod doesn't want to hear. The mod then boards a Ghost, and rams him down. Medication flies everywhere

kmd4390, who was a doctor, was splattered by Mod

It is now Night 2. Send me actions within 72 hours, or your action will be foregone.

[CSL]

Mod Scene 3.1

You wake up, and move to the town square. You all look around. Gayle is missing. You walk to her house, and notice she was charred to bits.

Things look grim. There are 6 of you remaining. This is where you either build your future, or watch it all crumble.

Gayle, who was a Generic Towine, burned to death N2

Due to the previous avatar bet on Day 2, Gayle can post the avatar farside is forced to use. After all, Gayle flipped town, right?

Day 3. With 6 alive, 4 will lynch. 3 for no lynch.

Please heed the following warning...

IF YOU SAY SOMEONE IS TOWN BECAUSE OF ONE OF MY POSTS, YOU WILL BE MODKILLED WITHOUT GRIEF, REMORSE, OR AFTERTHOUGHT. REMEMBER WHY KMD DIED? I HOPE SO.

[Gayle]

Farside's new avatar:

Big version so you can understand just what your avatar is.


Good luck town, even though mafia is gonna win. Pour out a 40 for me and kmd.

[farside22]

I love the avatar so much I may keep it longer then 2 weeks.

[farside22]

In all seriousness I need to do a reread now that the person I felt for certain was scum flipped town.

[CSL]

Also, since there are 6 of you, deadline is halved. Yeah. Four days should be enough. Only need four votes.

[farside22]

I need to go but I want to post why i think gheb is scum right quick and when I have a moment later I will expand. I just don't want to lose my notes:

What I do find interesting (this is still @DTM) is the fact that out of the 3 inactive / useless people you only mentioned only morph and mavs but take no note of xoxelf whatsoever despite me mentioning him/her just as much as the other two players. Why is that? You single out mavs for the sake of a bandwagon (which is OK with me) but completely fail to mention that everything you said also applies to morph and xoxelf at the same time? And yet, you complain about me voting Slaxx', which at that time was a completely legitimate move? If you earnestly call me a hypocrite for voting Slaxx' over one of the three other players then you are a hypocrite just as much because you vote a player for doing something that somebody else - xoxelf, whom you ironically choose to ignore - has also done.

First lets go and say this next post is hypocritcal after his comment to DTmaster

By lurking they actively hurt our process of scumhunting, which is scummy. My main issue is that it's also very safe for scum to get an inactive lynched as it doesn't require to take a clear stance.

...

Vote animorpherv1

The problem is that we're not only lacking input from mavsfan but from xoxelf too. We're currently waiting for 2 inactives or their replacements to speak up on what happened with deadline looming. With 4 days left there might not be enough time to fill the hole they're replacing into.

I've seen morph finally taking a stance and stepping it up in terms of activity

.

Focasing on lurkers.

OK, so I'm curious as to why DTM and farside are voting for Gayle when they are so sure that mav's play has been anti-town (which I'd agree with) and advocated his lynch pretty clearly all day. Gayle has been playing pretty stupid but I'm not sure if that's because he's scum or just new. A lot of the stuff he said isn't flat-out scummy but just misinformed and I think it's too easy for scum to make him the scapegoat. Look townie if he flips mafia, blame it on his stupid play if he flips town - that's win/win for mafia and thus a likely wagon for them to jump on.

This makes me fairly suspicious of farside and I think her reactions to Gayle's concerns were pretty bad. I think she's exaggerating a lot in this case and looks like opportunistic scum searching the easiest lynch. Gayle lightweight-defending mav's is certainly something to keep in mind in case of a scumflip but at the same time I don't think his arguments were scummy enough to draw such a fierce reaction from farside. Farside only seems to be looking for the most comfotable lynch - the one that is the easiest to sweep under the rug.

Vote Farside

I'd also like to point a FoS at KMD for jumping the Gayle wagon for being so defensive. That's a textbook example of scum looking for a lame excuse to jump on a comfortable lynch. What's so unusual or scummy to be defensive when people jump on your wagon for a case that's blown out of proportion pretty hard? It looks like a pretty natural reaction of a player who's just not used to being scapegoated so hard.

That doesn't change my opinion of farside and KMD at all. I'm not saying that Gayle's play isn't suspicous enough to warrant a lynch. I'm saying that the same also applies to KMD / farside IMHO. I'm not saying "Gayle is town so his wagoners are scum". I'm saying "farside's/KMD's arguments and the way they have jumped on the Gayle wagon are pretty suspicous to me." It has nothing to do with assuming that Gayle may or may not be scum - with two mafia fractions scum can still hunt scum themselves so it could be a mafia vs mafia debate. My point is that they're making him a scapegoat which is typical behaviour of - you guessed it - the mafia.

now that all players in question flipped town what do you have to say about this post?

Unvote Vote Xoxelf

Ask question, bring up points, hunt scum - play the game! It's been so long since we've heard anything from you that's even remotely useful. You posted once after a long streak of inactivity to avoid replacement / a prod and now you continue to play that way? I think most of the arguments against mavsfan should apply to you just as much by now.

Weren't you just critisizing DTMaster for pointing to only one player doing this?
Here he does it again. Also again going back to the lurkers lynch mentality.

At this point I think lynching some of the more vocal players won't help us too much. I know I keep changing my mind a lot but right now we BADLY lack input from The Longing, Slaxx, Sanhora and Xoxelf - you guys can't all be scum stalling? We have about two days to finalize our lynch and you guys have nothing to say? All 3 of you haven't done more than feigning activity and have posted nothing of substance in a long time.

Unvote Vote Sanhora

Why are you switching your vote at this time?

Vote Xoxelf

Singeling out players as suspicous based on a NK? Everybody should know the amount of WIFOM involved. Horrible attempt to frame somebody.

vote jumping many times for little to no reason. This last one looks like following Kmd the claimed doc.

Yeah, at this point lurking is anti-town period. After all the discussion we had D2 you seriously letting this getting out of hand. And that bothers me because with that modkill we're at 3 anti-town vs 5 town and if you are town you WANT to make the correct lynch and you WANT all players to do their best. Everything else is Anti-town

Vote The Longing

[Gheb]

Yeah posting random quotes and comment on them with one liners will help you a lot to prove I'm scum. Especially when you don't even point out

what's

suspect about it. You accuse me of being on mislynches when I'm one of the most vocal players about lynching players like ani who flipped scum? Seriously? Do you realize that this was the only correct lynch we had so far? If you really think I'm scum for that and for trying to get more attention to players who are under the radar by offering alternative wagons then you should try a lot harder if you want me to be the scapegoat in lylo / mylo. DTM did that earlier and I can easily see a DTM/FarPom Ice Mafia team with both of you making me the scapegoat now for half-assed reasons.

Look at the players who flipped town - Gayle, KMD, Slaxx. They've all been fairly useful for scumhunting and vocal about their suspicions. The only flipped scum we have so far is ani. Who has been playing the exact

opposite

of what town has played so far. Guess whose playstyle also fits? You guessed it - people who've been coasting so far: The Longing and Xofelf. Those people are a

detriment

to town and with 50% of the game being scum and one confirmed scum being plenty inactive / useless I'd say these two should get lots of flak for stalling the whole game.

[farside22]

I did say I was posting my notes and would expand later when I had a chance. How nice of you to completely ignore that comment along with my post.

You accuse me of being on mislynches when I'm one of the most vocal players about lynching players like ani who flipped scum?

First of all you voted for morph once and then unvoted and went for another lurker. You hammered him that day just saying it was close to deadline and he was L-1 so don't be saying you were all after him. You were after lurkers only. Lurkers are easy prey for scum to look at. There was nothing more then just oh X player is not saying anything and lurker I vote for elf, sanhora, morph, thelonging, slaxx. It was all the same thing and reason. That's not scum hunting that is called lurker lynching.

You haven't been scum hunting and then you call out DTMaster for talking abount mansvan but then just attack a lurker over another player with no real reason but lurkering and offering nothing.
Then you follow kmd and throughout the game I found you coasting. You have post little thoughts on players in the game.
plus the one time you didn't attack a lurker every player you mentioned was town.

In short: I haven't see you offer a case that was based on anything more then lurking and say little to nothing about anyone else in the game or impressions.

[DTMaster]

@Ice Scum
You caught fire scum considering that fire scum killed someone.

@Night Actions
Now if we analyze the night actions we have:

KMD doc protected DTM n1.
Ice scum killed farside n1 and now attempted to kill fire scum n2.
Fire scum killed Slaxx n1 and Gayle n2.

Confirmed Firescum is Ani who was Pro-Gayle and Pro-Slaxx.

Time to do rereads but gut tells me Pom/FarsideII might be the last fire scum given Ice's NK on farside.

[DTMaster]

ISO rereads lose some meaning without context so I'm going to a journal like analysis while I pick apart things.

@Pom/FarsideII

1. Pom's questions in retrospect are not very good. We have a case of anti-town lurkers being more scummier then the actual scum. How so? If you consider the questions that Pom asked:

Some questions, to spark some discussion:

The Longing, do you like being scum or town better? (Bonus: Why?)

xofelf, what's the most enjoyable power role you ever played? (Bonus: Why?)

Kmd, what do you like better, RVS or RQS? (Bonus: Why?)

Gheb, what do you think of the site in general? Do you like our approach to scumhunting? (Bonus: You guessed it, why?)

farside22, what's your favorite Open setup that is being run? (Bonus: Does it have any interesting mechanics?)

mavsfan, Where does your username come from? (Bonus: What other games are you currently playing in?)

Ani, what's your favorite game that you have played? (Bonus; What was your role? Bonus 2X: Do you think you played well?)

TQO, I can't think of a question for you. Think of a question to ask me. (Bonus: Include a bonus.)

Slaxx, Why don't you know what a pomegranate looks like? (Bonus: Have you ever heard of Google Image?)

DTMaster, Why do you refer to SaintKerrigan as Sarah? (Bonus: Do you know him/her IRL?)

SaintKerrigan, have you ever self-voted? (Bonus: If so, why?)

These are all trivia questions. Pom argues that any discussion, even bad discussion will lead to eventual scum hunting. However the above questions involve more distraction then sparking any scum hunting.

If you look at SaintKerrigan/Gayle , KMD, and Gheb, these questions are quite biased against them. They involve lots of theory questions which directs the attention on to them. The others are trivia questions.

With the 4 lurkers at the time, Slaxx's post summarizes it well. We got too complacent.

2. Pom joined in on the Slaxx wagon via Gheb/Farside. Interesting how it's not OMGUS but she rehashes Gheb's argument for nothing.

3. Pom unvotes after Gheb unvotes, wagon on Slaxx loses steam.

4. Pom joins the Mavs wagon, not the Ani wagon.

Pom, questions are ok depending on how it's done. Specifically RVS vs RQS, I don't use either. I very rarely random vote. I look for something scummy, no matter how small, and attack it. Then I take that player's actions and everyone else's reaction to it and formulate an opinion on everyone else as well.

But I recall in that game where we were scum together with KScope (Mini 844, was it?), you voted me based on something small, and bussed me until it brought about you lynch (and me being NKed). Though that is the only meta I have of you, it doesn't put you tactic in good light.

--

I am putting Mavs at L-1. Don't say you didn't know.

Vote: Mavsfan

.

BLAH BLAH ARGUMENT on page 11 --- On second thought, Vote: Gayle.

@Longing
1. Joined the mavs wagon via me, repeating what I put out.
2. This bugs me since this screams:

also

Unvote: Sanhora

You're contributing a lot more than mavs, so I'm going to unvote

Townie. However DGB's postulate makes reconsider.


@Jacob/TQO
1 .Actually I thought of something horrible in response to reading post 89 Mafia make up half the town. Given that they cannot night kill each other, they could agree to a tie and just force the game into deadline lynches, killing the rest of the townies.

2. He really, really likes fueling wagons here.

Right, just been catching up on the past fourteen pages of discussion, and am drawn to Farside becasue pushing home the point of Gayle as "scum", so

<b>Unvote</b>
<b>Vote: Farside 22</b>

But he did do things right.

Unvote, Vote:Fareside 22

@CSL: You must of mist it in your last vote count, meh shit happens.

Actually that would be a bit pointless, as Animorpherve is going to be lynched any way, might as well change my vote and make it sooner rather than later:

Unvote:
Vote Animorpherv1

I'm getting VI waves coming from this direction.

Unvote

Vote: Farside

Hope that works XD

@xofelf
Makes me cry. Considering he/she's been given a free pass all game I have no read other then: "I'm busy sorry"

okay... i don't really have anything on anyone... no one stands out negatively to me.. then again, today has been interesting so i wasn't entirely focusing here. i'll check through again when i get a chance tomorrow.. sorry bout that

Probably active lurking but I wish the search engine was up.

@Ani
In retrospect he was obviously fueling the Gayle/Farside debate and KMD called it.


Also to be continued

[TheLonging]

One has to remember that there is two Mafia's, and that the WIFOM gets even more confusing.

However I am just going to go with my gut feeling

Vote: Gayle

I hate votes based on gut feelings.

As far as I can see, CSL hasn't cleared anyone
And as far as too scum teams; Gayle could be scum and not have killed Farside, but the other team, may of killed her because they were suspicious of her.
Dosn't clear her of being scum

Yes CSL never cleared anyone. I'm misunderstanding the 2nd part of the post. Are you saying that one scum team tried to kill her because they were suspicious of her? One scum team can't kill the other, so you're saying she could be scum (at the time) because one scum team tried to kill her and she didn't die, so she could be on the other scum team? This confuses me.

For suggesting CSL has cleared Gayle

Unvote, Vote:KMD

Horrible vote on someone who claimed doctor for horrible reasoning

And the "gut" vote is fine, but what do you think about CSL's post that virtually cleared Farside and Gayle?

What part of that is not Scummy, using the Mod to protect one of his scum-buddy?

That was my reason for voting KMD, as for Gayle, I went on gut feeling, in hope of drawing infomation, which it did.

Mod doesn't confirm anyone as scum/town. kmd was stupid in thinking that but whatever.

@DTMaster

The Reason why I am voting KMD, is that he survived the night, surley if someone has claimed Doctor at least one of the Mafia would have the brains to kill him?
As for no counter-claim, the doctor wants to survive, so counter-claiming someone who could be town or Mafia, is not fruitfull

Yeah this was addressed, but he claimed on D2, so this is a horrible post right here.

I would point out, it is not a scummy thing not to want a counter-claim.
Kmd could have claimed doctor, to save the real doctor, allowing the doctor to save him in the night.
Far-fetched, but slightly plausable

No it's not.
This is a bad gambit, because if kmd was fake doctor surely the real doctor would have counter claimed? It's more than far-fetched.

Vote: JacobSavage

I'm still sticking with my suspicion of him since yesterday

[CSL]

Ok guys, it's lylo, which means that it's time for the following. The players in this game may choose a lynch method for the remainder of the game.

Decapitation
Rope
Beatdown

Those are your choices. Once a method has a majority, any voting for methods will be disregarded. If deadline hits, whichever has the most votes is decided. If there is a tie, day will be extended only for voting for methods. The count resets without the uninvolved method, and the players vote for the remaining two. DAY CANNOT END UNTIL BOTH THE METHOD, AND THE LYNCHEE HAVE BEEN CHOSEN!

I call the above "Lylo Mayhem." (I thought about this all morning, then decided to do this.)

This also means that deadline has been reset back to four days.

Stand by for a votecount.

[CSL]

The "Game is Almost Over" Votecount!

JacobSavage (L-3) TheLonging

Not voting: JacobSavage, Farside II, Xofelf, Gheb, DTMaster

Votes to Lynch: 4

Deadline: 4 days

Lynch Method Votecount

Decap (L-4)
Rope (L-4)
Brutality (L-4)

Not Voting: xofelf, Gheb, TheLonging, Farside II, DTMaster, JacobSavage

Votes to choose: 4

Deadline: 4 days

[JacobSavage]

@CSL

Do these methods do anything special, or is it just for effect?

@TheLonging

Pretty Much, most of what you have based you information on minor slip-ups and much confusion between me and KMD. To be honest my head still hurts

@Xofelf

I wasn't aware you where still alive, I assumed you where kill by Scum. Opps

Now to get the ball rolling

Vote:Brutality

Following the example set by the police =)

[TheLonging]

Vote: Brutality

[farside22]

Long post incoming.

TQO:

Either way it looks like I agree Animorpher might be the scummiest so far. But I want to see what Ani's defense is going to be before I decide whether to switch from my pressure vote right now.

I wonder why if TQO feels this way he kept his vote on elf saying this:

So if I understand this correctly, we're basing our current choice of lynches on an unwritten "lynch all lurkers" rule. Since obviously nobody seems to be finding anything scummy said by anyone currently active, we're hoping that inactive players = scum so that the day can progress as normal.
Well then my original pressure vote on Elf will work just fine I suppose. Since I've seen nothing worthy of an argument that supports Mav or Ani over Elf, they're all lurkers. And sorry if this sounds harsh, but if your so busy with school work that you can't play the game, why did you sign up for the game in the first place? I say either lynch the lurkers or the lurkers need to respectfully replace out for someone who's going to have a more vested interest in scum hunting.

They were both lurksome players.

Jacob:

talks about me pushing gayle as scum but doesn't say why that is scummy.

He did switch votes to morph when gayle was pushing hard on me. This gives me a plus view on Jacob as not scum with morph.

However his reasoning was off:

Personly I think that Farside is far more suspisous, and with ani only being lynched because of an apparent lack of activity, we are missing out on getting rid of one of the Mafia members.

I'm not sure what to think about this seeing morph's lynch as scum.

I find this comment comical after the fact:

I am tempted to vote Gayle, as she tried to get votes off Ani and on to Farside, a townie

He did call morph scum and vote for morph more to get a lynch happening but wants to blame gayle now.
Jacob then votes for kmd after the claim and saying he missed when the claim occured.

Jacob doesn't seem to pay attention to what is going on in the game. The only plus I can say is he did put ani at l-3 and could have pushed a lynch and kept his vote on me.
As I said this has me leaning not scum with morph.
However most of everything else he said is pretty under the radar. I haven't seen any real viewpoints on other players from him in the game. Leaning neutral. I think Longing/elf scum together see below for next.

TheLonging:

Vote: animorph

He hasn't done a lot. He's lurking, not even posting a lot when he does post, not sharing his thoughts....

pretty meh reason for a vote and didn't really say much else day 1

Where did you see kmd bwing players?

I was gonna make a post about how I found kmd and ani suspicious, but thread locked before it could.

Vote: kmd

Horrible bandwagoning, giving horrible reasons for voting, restating the obvious... that's the shortened version of my moderately-sized post.

Wasn't this already stated day 1 by others like gayle and myself?

I think xoxelf isn't scum, just needs to post more (I feel like I can't speak, but I'm trying to post more so I will). I still like my vote on kmd. I find it suspicious farside died tonight, so one of my suspicions is on Gayle.

why was morph scum and elf not scum in your view?
Looking at night kills is a scum tactic.

I also mentioned why I thought Animorph was scummy in that vote. Yes I lurked D1 but most of it was Gayle vs. Farside, which I really didn't have much to do with + I wasn't online a lot

Another scum tactic is to lurk when they see two players arguing as it leaves them clear to just place a vote and walk away without being noticed.

For looking for bandwagons and voting for kmd, who as far as we know, is probably a doctor.

Why did you focas on Jacob for this. I know Gayle flipped town but why didn't you say anything about her push on kmd?

TheLonging placed a meh vote for morph. Lurker through day 1 and chose to hide instead of responding to the case at hand. I find it a scum tactic to talk about the NK to try and soil another player in the game. But after that accusation never brings anything to it afterwards

elf

does anyone find it at all suspicious that Gayle and farside were having comments back and forth and now farside is dead? or is that just me?

Same sin as the longing using night kill speculation.

i never said that made Gayle suspicious. more of i was thinking that whoever did it WANTED to make her look so. i guess i should have said odd. i wasn't saying she did anything. just intrigued by the fact that she was defending ani and he flipped scum, and then farside dies during the night. i'm thinking somebody wants to make her look scummy. Cuz all i get from her are town vibes.
it was more something to think about than anything else.

wishy washy response

Both Thelonging and elf bring up the same point on gayle about the nk. I see this as a scum tactic to make someone else look scum based on a kill.
Also elf's play reminds me strongly of an MM game we were in where she said nothing but I'm reading and had to be replaced out.

Vote: Brutality

My main 3 are TL, elf and gheb as scum at this point.

[JacobSavage]

Preferably, I would suggest that we focus on finding possible fire scum, out of the list of suspects, If only to reduce the number of night kills to 1 rather than 2

[farside22]

Preferably, I would suggest that we focus on finding possible fire scum, out of the list of suspects, If only to reduce the number of night kills to 1 rather than 2

Not really. We need to find one of the ice mafia.
Look at the front to see the win condition:

You win if you cover half of the population, or nothing can prevent this. Confirm in thread.

There is 6 players left
3 is town
2 is ice
1 is fire

best ideally for town is finding one of the 2 remaining ice mafia.

That leaves
3 town
1 ice
1 fire
and hope ice and fire target each other with this in the morning.
it's going to be a tough thing to pull off.
You look for just the fire and look what happens

3 town
2 ice

ice targets 1 townie
2 townie
2 ice

mafia wins as per win condition.

[Gheb]

Preferably, I would suggest that we focus on finding possible fire scum, out of the list of suspects, If only to reduce the number of night kills to 1 rather than 2

That's bullshit on a silver platter. If we lynch fire mafia Ice mafia wins.

Unvote Vote Jacob

[CSL]

The "Deadline Caution" Votecount!

JacobSavage (L-2) TheLonging, Gheb

Not voting: JacobSavage, Farside II, Xofelf, DTMaster

Votes to Lynch: 4

Deadline: 3 days

I find it funny that Gheb never voted anyone this Day until now. He didn't need to unvote!

Lynch Method Votecount

Decap (L-4)
Rope (L-4)
Brutality (L-1) farside II, TheLonging, JacobSavage

Not Voting: xofelf, Gheb, DTMaster

Votes to choose: 4

Deadline: 3 days

[CSL]

You guys got 3 days, I expect some posting. Mass Prods will be going out if it ever reaches 1 day to deadline!

[CSL]

Article III (General Stuff); Rule 7 has been broken by kmd4390, for talking about an out-of-topic discussion during Day 2. I'm nice, so a town player won't get modkilled, but kmd4390 now autoloses Open 201, and is BLACKLISTED from ANY, AND ALL GAMES HENCEFORTH THAT IS MODDED, CO-MODDED, OR BACKUP MODDED BY ME AS PER THE PUNISHMENT WRITTEN IN SAID RULE.

I really didn't want to blacklist kmd, but he did infract Rule 0 more than 4 times.

With that said, the votecounts do not reset.

All talk about this decision will be met with a modkill.

The discussion I had with kmd convinced me. Ruling Detracted.

CARRY ON!

[CSL]

Hey. This is not a result of inactivity, but as far as recent events go.

I might be pulling this plug if 5 out of the 6 alive vote for it. That means if just two want to continue, it will.

If I end up having to pull it, I'll fast forward it to what the endgame would most likely be. Essentially, this game will have winners and losers no matter what.

I just ask you to not reveal roles if we end up having to pull plugs, and just wait for the official mod reveal.