Open 189~Trouble@Warren State Mental Hosp (Over)

[VP Baltar]

It is a crap meta indeed.

Anyhow, you can't expect to just come in here and get a win without taking even a little bit of crap from me, now do you!

*waits for tubby to bring out the gold medals*

[tubby216]

*********************lynch scene*********************

having just wandered into the room havingfits see's rosso covered with remenants of the "other" patients he has gotten rid of so he grabs another fragment of the broken chair and stabs rosso with it spewing forth a fountian of blood. Rosso is dead.


Rosso Carne =Town Doctor

it is now nite4


you have 72 hours to send it nite actions. (if i get them all in sooner i will open the day sooner)

[tubby216]

***************************morning scene************************

so you all awake to find sly sly dead in a pool of blood.


sly sly was a townie

its now day 5

[VP Baltar]

I want to feel bad about lynching Rosso, but then I remembered we have two dead cops.


Vi, who's da scum?

[havingfitz]

My town--->scum spectrum goes from Sotty--->Vi.

Just finished Vi ISO. Will start VP ISO tomorrow to see which side of Vi I think fits him best.

[VP Baltar]

Reasoning with either of those reads?

[Vi]

I want to feel bad about lynching Rosso, but then I remembered we have two dead cops.

Vi, who's da scum?

I want to fe--wait, no I don't. We lynched scum yesterday, and in the unwarranted, undeserved interest of staying polite I'll leave it there.

With all due respect, I would like a little more time to answer that question.

[VP Baltar]

No problem. I was hoping today wasn't going to even be happing, so I can understand time to do some reading.

Sotty, any thoughts at this time? You were pretty quiet yesterday.

[Sotty7]

My thoughts are basically Vi is more than likely our last scum.

VP pushed HR hard pretty much from the get go. Really don't see him doing that to his only buddy from such an early point in the game.

BC flaked out and we had a night processed with a kill action. On the surface looks to be mod confirmed.

Vi was slow to come around to HR wagon voting pretty much anyone else that day before sticking him at lynch-1.

Mod: In the event of not receiving an action from a hyposcum team would you randomize the kill or just have it be a no kill?

[VP Baltar]

^heh, forgot that I meant to ask that question once this game started again. Nice catch.

[Vi]

No problem. I was hoping today wasn't going to even be happing, so I can understand time to do some reading.

There's surprisingly little reading to do, actually. But I still would like a little more time.

Also, to answer Sotty7's question:

Night action choices are due to me via PM by the posted deadline. If I do not receive your choice by the posted deadline you will forfeit your action(s). (EXCEPTION: Compulsive actions will be randomized.)

With that said, there's nothing in the Role PMs to suggest any actions in this game are compulsive. So, maybe it doesn't answer the question. >.>

Unrelated and one of many vents that I'm trying NOT to flood the game with right now, but the most plausible explanation for the Doctor flip is that Rosso Carne never submitted an action. Speaking as someone who has been the designated LyLo lynchee for quite a while now - and didn't mind it at the time - that's reasonably frustrating, because with

two claimed Cops

and a Doctor this situation should never have happened. Not even close.

[havingfitz]

Reasoning with either of those reads?

Will effort to get reasoning out today.

[Sotty7]

Hmm So it comes down to if the mod deems the mafia kill as compulsive then, which he probably doesn't. Still an official ruling on the question would be nice.

[Vi]

Hmm So it comes down to if the mod deems the mafia kill as compulsive then, which he probably doesn't.

...

fitz, the game won't go anywhere without you. Please continue.

[havingfitz]

Hmm So it comes down to if the mod deems the mafia kill as compulsive then, which he probably doesn't.

...

fitz, the game won't go anywhere without you. Please continue.

Sorry I did not get a chance to post thoughts yesterday. RL got in the way (three kids in need of dad's taxi service and one celebrating a b-day yesterday). I'm on GMT so I might get them in before the US crowd logs in. Since we're such a small intimate group...I'll let it be known that I am town, regardless of what the mod says about night actions when players with night actions (which I have none of) are away.

I have completed my ISOs on Sotty/Qooq and Vi and though I did not take notes during my review...my sense (I know that is not a good reason for others to grasp) tells me she is town. Despite the fact she has been mafia and fooled me everytime [1] we have played. Still need to review VP and compare my thoughts on him to those on Vi. At first glance their voting patterns were very similar...though VP seems to have been a little more committed to getting rid of HR. While I continue to digest the game...feel free to revisit/elaborate/post your suspicions on your fellow mental patients as well.

[VP Baltar]

I have completed my ISOs on Sotty/Qooq and Vi and though I did not take notes during my review...my sense (I know that is not a good reason for others to grasp) tells me she is town. Despite the fact she has been mafia and fooled me everytime [1] we have played.

Who is she? Sotty?

Still waiting on that response tubby.

I am not really sure i should answer this untill after endgame. I know its important but I feel its game breaking, please alow me sometime to consult other mods who are not in this game for final ruling thanks

[Vi]

While I continue to digest the game...feel free to revisit/elaborate/post your suspicions on your fellow mental patients as well.

You win a point for your effort in trying to cover up your lack of effort.

You have 20 hours.

[Sotty7]

I have completed my ISOs on Sotty/Qooq and Vi and though I did not take notes during my review...my sense (I know that is not a good reason for others to grasp) tells me she is town. Despite the fact she has been mafia and fooled me everytime [1] we have played.

Who is she? Sotty?

Still waiting on that response tubby.

I think it is me. We played a newbie game a little while back where I was scum and managed to get Fitz to vote with me in lylo

[havingfitz]

While I continue to digest the game...feel free to revisit/elaborate/post your suspicions on your fellow mental patients as well.

You win a point for your effort in trying to cover up your lack of effort.

You have 20 hours.

What do you consider effort? I haven't seen anything from you since I have joined this game. Resting on your earlier posts? Ignoring my legitimate request for a recap of your suspicions? I don't live on here and have checked in as often as possible to at least let you all know where I was in the game. So chill and perhaps start playing again. And what happens in 20 hours? Till you post again? Till you vote for me? You have 5 minutes.

*************************************

OK..finished ISO on VP. He bussed HR pretty hard from the beginning. The main thing that concerned me were comments VP made on more than one occassion concerning the fact that no scum would bus their partner the entire game in a two scum set up. Which makes me of course think he is scum bussing his partner the entire game. I want to look at Vi again in throughout the game (and not in ISO) to see what was others were doing and what may have precipitated some of her comments/votes. Still think Sotty is town (and I was referring to Sotty in my earlier post) but I would not be as quick to place a vote on either VP or Vi as I was on Rosso.

[VP Baltar]

OK..finished ISO on VP. He bussed HR pretty hard from the beginning. The main thing that concerned me were comments VP made on more than one occassion concerning the fact that no scum would bus their partner the entire game in a two scum set up. Which makes me of course think he is scum bussing his partner the entire game.

Ok...so you're not going to be useful. Just vote who I tell you to when I let you know who the scum is. Unless, of course, the NK was randomized, in which case we'll speedlynch you and insta-win.


Guess I'm going to have to iso Sotty and Vi. sigh. I don't see why I should have to do heavy lifting in a setup with two cops and a doc.

Vi and Sotty, which of you is town so I don't have to do stuff?

[Vi]

@VP Baltar: Quit saying scummy things and/or being ABR.
You're in no position to complain compared to me, and I hate it when you proceed to rest on an implied sense of security for the sake of posturing when

I really would like a Town read on you right now

.

More coming, stay tuned, etc.

[Vi]

I just found out that I'm going to be V/LA from Friday on >_> so here's everything at once.

When I made my process of elimination Yesterday, I cleared two people based on their HowardRoark history (and in Sotty's case, not much more), one for being mod-confirmed innocent without bothering much with their history, and one for being implied innocent without bothering much with their history. One of those was a mistake that I caused, and I'm going to take back right now.

Consider the following modding dilemma. Starting D4 with no kill at all would have been the same as throwing the game for the scum; it would have logically implied that the absentee was scum. Meanwhile, Xdaamno-Cop was an obvious choice for the NK (and not at all random). With no replacement immediately forthcoming, it would not be out of the question for HowardRoark to proxy a kill for BloodCovenent on his way out simply to keep the game moving.

Therefore, I contend that BloodCovenent - and now havingfitz - is

not

confirmed Town.

---

Now, let's look at the trail left by fitz's predecessors.

Hyl - Nothing to see. Nothing particularly damning, nothing Town, voting VP Baltar for reasons I don't agree with, and a lot of generally hanging out without adding much.

BloodCovenent - VP Baltar scathed him for his stance on the HowardRoark wagon at the time, but take a look again:

I'm not really fond of the Howard wagon at the moment. IIRC Howard was VP's second vote. Since then he voted Otto, and then shortly after he went back to Howard. But what I don't understand is why go back to a wagon alone.

-I didn't like Cat's jump on the Howard wagon.

Cat, fine. But maybe because it's ten at night I don't understand his reason for staying off the scumwagon.

I

find

(more or less) think that Howard's play would be considered a null. Yea he hasn't contributed much to the game at all other than defending himself or examining his wagon. His lower activity could be due to one of a few things which I won't speculate on because I am not him. I don't know why he's not participating as actively as others. I presume it as town, mostly off of gut.

I can suspend my disbelief until the last sentence.

On Day 2, BloodCovenent "pressure votes" Xdaamno first thing. Sotty7 called him on it, and due to BloodCovenent's replacement request, we never did get that ironed out beyond the excuse. Actually, all three of us were questioning BC at the time he took leave.
In his next post (several days later) he jumped aboard the HowardRoark wagon at L-2, for...

I can agree with this to an extent. His questions are boring, bland, they don't have much content. What I mean by that is, they don't really make the questioned think too much, they don't pressure anyone hard. I guess i would call it, feign questioning?

His attempts to rebut VP Baltar's disbelief came to "I would have bussed him yesterday if we were both scum", which while difficult to evaluate would have been a terrible move strategically (especially with a claimed, if useless, Cop around).

And then we have fitz.
One thing that's really raising red flags is his repeated attempts to get US to do the work for HIM.

While I read up...could people provide their top two suspects?

While I continue to digest the game...feel free to revisit/elaborate/post your suspicions on your fellow mental patients as well.

Without our input - which I'm grateful for your cooperation on, btw - we got this:

My town--->scum spectrum goes from Sotty--->Vi.

This bothers me. Normally when people post a visual representation, they're referring to someone being --- this much scummier than someone else. That's the major reason you can't just say "Sotty is more likely Town; Vi isn't".
But even if you're not into that, let's go further.

Reasoning with either of those reads?

Will effort to get reasoning out today.

*though I did not take notes during my review...my sense (I know that is not a good reason for others to grasp) tells me she is town. Despite the fact she has been mafia and fooled me everytime [1] we have played.

*Still need to review VP and compare my thoughts on him to those on Vi. At first glance their voting patterns were very similar...though VP seems to have been a little more committed to getting rid of HR.

The main thing that concerned me were comments VP made on more than one occassion concerning the fact that no scum would bus their partner the entire game in a two scum set up. Which makes me of course think he is scum bussing his partner the entire game.

*1) This is the most qualified gut Town read I've read in a while. That last sentence would validate a later Sotty wagon if it became convenient.
*2) Notice that there are no reasons given for me being scum.
*3) Not bussing your only scumpartner is what most people call "good play"; it's an Open setup, these sorts of theories are entirely valid and rather bad ideas to disagree with if you can't back it up. If this is your only reason for believing VP Baltar is scum, it sounds like you

want

him to be scum

Last, take a look at this hammer on Rosso Carne.

I'll try to finish up my read tomorrow

and get my thoughts (or a vote) posted.

OK...did my first ISo on what appears to be the frontrunner for scum. Rosso Carne. He's made 20 posts and added absolutely nothing to the game. No content of any worth. I'll defer to the confirmed and presumed townies on his wagon and coupled with his lack of contribution..

Vote Rosso Carne

He finished his read on time and voted the next day? No, these posts were

six minutes apart

. We just didn't care at the time because it was Rosso Carne getting killed.

Notice the inconsistency in how much information he has. In the first post, he had not finished reading. In the second post, he was ISOing someone (normally something you don't do without finishing your initial read) and already referred to "confirmed and presumed Townies" (which would have required him to have been up to D3 when Xd cleared SlySly, which would have put him at the end of the read), whoever they were - notice that of the two "presumed Townies" that were not him at the time, one wasn't on the wagon at all (Sotty7) and the other is someone he's trying to accuse now (VP Baltar). And, really. A hammer as soon as you come in and before you finish reading? Claiming to be "not a patient person" doesn't seem to match his present behavior, what with not laying a vote when it's perfectly safe...

tl;dr

Vote: havingfitz

(L-2)

This is my last (and first) wallpost in this game. I will not engage in wall-to-wall combat.

[havingfitz]

When I made my process of elimination Yesterday, I cleared two people based on their HowardRoark history (and in Sotty's case, not much more), one for being mod-confirmed innocent without bothering much with their history, and one for being implied innocent without bothering much with their history. One of those was a mistake that I caused, and I'm going to take back right now.

Consider the following modding dilemma. Starting D4 with no kill at all would have been the same as throwing the game for the scum; it would have logically implied that the absentee was scum. Meanwhile, Xdaamno-Cop was an obvious choice for the NK (and not at all random). With no replacement immediately forthcoming, it would not be out of the question for HowardRoark to proxy a kill for BloodCovenent on his way out simply to keep the game moving.

Therefore, I contend that BloodCovenent - and now havingfitz - is

not

confirmed Town.

I've only been in one game where inactivity during night supported someone's innocence. And coincidentally it was in the lone game I have played with Sotty. One of my top suspects went awol and after night actions were made I switched opinion away from him..rightfully so. I do not think a mod would perform a NK and I highly doubt a mod would allow lynched scum (HR) to perform an action post-lynching. Your initial assessment that BC's absence meant he couldn't be scum hass turned out to be accurate. Congrats...(if you didn't already know it).

Now, let's look at the trail left by fitz's predecessors.

No comment as for the most part I have not looked at my predecessors' posts (since I know what my role is) and I can not speak for/defend anything they may have said.

And then we have fitz.
One thing that's really raising red flags is his repeated attempts to get US to do the work for HIM.

While I read up...could people provide their top two suspects?

While I continue to digest the game...feel free to revisit/elaborate/post your suspicions on your fellow mental patients as well.

Without our input - which I'm grateful for your cooperation on, btw

You're welcome? To each his own. When I replace into games (which are about half of the games I play in...I they are very lengthy I will look to the existing players for the current state of their opinions. I can't help it if you find fault with that. In a game 30+ pages long...I am going to consider any info I can get. And iirc...neither YOU or VP have responded, i.e., done any of the work for ME

- we got this:

My town--->scum spectrum goes from Sotty--->Vi.

This bothers me. Normally when people post a visual representation, they're referring to someone being --- this much scummier than someone else. That's the major reason you can't just say "Sotty is more likely Town; Vi isn't".

What's your point here? That's basically what I was saying. I think Sotty is town. I was (and am) getting a scum feel towards you, and I wasn't sure when I made the 'visual representation' where VP fit. I never realized dashes were a scumtell.

But even if you're not into that, let's go further.

Reasoning with either of those reads?

Will effort to get reasoning out today.

*though I did not take notes during my review...my sense (I know that is not a good reason for others to grasp) tells me she is town. Despite the fact she has been mafia and fooled me everytime [1] we have played.

*Still need to review VP and compare my thoughts on him to those on Vi. At first glance their voting patterns were very similar...though VP seems to have been a little more committed to getting rid of HR.

The main thing that concerned me were comments VP made on more than one occassion concerning the fact that no scum would bus their partner the entire game in a two scum set up. Which makes me of course think he is scum bussing his partner the entire game.

*1) This is the most qualified gut Town read I've read in a while. That last sentence would validate a later Sotty wagon if it became convenient.

The last sentence was made jokingly and I do not see myself voting for Sotty as I think she is town (or at least the least scummy of the three of you)

*2) Notice that there are no reasons given for me being scum.

My read on you left me feeling you could be scum. I said I was going to take another look at you. If/when I vote for you I will provide reasons

*3) Not bussing your only scumpartner is what most people call "good play"; it's an Open setup, these sorts of theories are entirely valid and rather bad ideas to disagree with if you can't back it up. If this is your only reason for believing VP Baltar is scum, it sounds like you

want

him to be scum

I was simply stating the only thing during my read on VP that caught me attention. His repeated mention of what scum wouldn't do could cover the fact that scum was actually doing it (ie bussing their partner). While I do not have the same town feel towards VP that I do towards Sotty...I'm not prepared to consider VP scummier than you...which is why I am going to take another look at you out of ISO

My comments in bold above (and below).

Last, take a look at this hammer on Rosso Carne.

I'll try to finish up my read tomorrow

and get my thoughts (or a vote) posted.

OK...did my first ISo on what appears to be the frontrunner for scum. Rosso Carne. He's made 20 posts and added absolutely nothing to the game. No content of any worth. I'll defer to the confirmed and presumed townies on his wagon and coupled with his lack of contribution..

Vote Rosso Carne

He finished his read on time and voted the next day? No, these posts were

six minutes apart

. We just didn't care at the time because it was Rosso Carne getting killed.

And why didn't you all care? Because the remaining scum was about to remove another townie and because the remaining townies thought they had identified scum. As did I.

Notice the inconsistency in how much information he has. In the first post, he had not finished reading. In the second post, he was ISOing someone (normally something you don't do without finishing your initial read) and already referred to "confirmed and presumed Townies" (which would have required him to have been up to D3 when Xd cleared SlySly, which would have put him at the end of the read), whoever they were - notice that of the two "presumed Townies" that were not him at the time, one wasn't on the wagon at all (Sotty7) and the other is someone he's trying to accuse now (VP Baltar).

I was not referring to VP as a confirmed townie...I was referring to Slysly...who was on the RC wagon and was confirmed.

And, really. A hammer as soon as you come in and before you finish reading? Claiming to be "not a patient person" doesn't seem to match his present behavior, what with not laying a vote when it's perfectly safe...

I had skimmed through the game prior to saying 'finishing my read' so I was already aware of some of the details in the game (ex. who was confirmed town and scum from lynches/NKs and investigations). The finishing my read comment was immediately followed by an ISO on RC's contributions, which as I stated...were crap and is what was the primary reason for my RC vote. I'm not patient...especially once I think I have scum ID'd. As for not laying down a 'safe' vote at the moment...my suspicions are not as strong towards you or VP as they were towards RC. So I am not going to rush.

Sorry for the long retort but I did not think Vi's comments were very valid and I thought each point deserved a comment.

Going back to my read. Right now I would consider Sotty the player least likely to get my vote leaving both Vi and VP in contention. With Vi currently in the lead to receive it.

[havingfitz]

OK..finished ISO on VP. He bussed HR pretty hard from the beginning. The main thing that concerned me were comments VP made on more than one occassion concerning the fact that no scum would bus their partner the entire game in a two scum set up. Which makes me of course think he is scum bussing his partner the entire game.

Ok...so you're not going to be useful. Just vote who I tell you to when I let you know who the scum is. Unless, of course, the NK was randomized, in which case we'll speedlynch you and insta-win.

Guess I'm going to have to iso Sotty and Vi. sigh. I don't see why I should have to do heavy lifting in a setup with two cops and a doc.

Vi and Sotty, which of you is town so I don't have to do stuff?

Looking back at my post you quote above (and following my conversations with Vi) I see I may have been a bit misleading in it. The last line of my comment should have been followed by an additional line something like, "However, I do not get a very strong scum vibe from VP so he would not be higher on my scum list than Vi." The way I left it seemed to indicate I thought you were scum (and therefore the last scum) when I was simply leaving open the possibility that you were.

And thanks for offering to help me place my vote.

[Vi]

My read on you left me feeling you could be scum. I said I was going to take another look at you. If/when I vote for you I will provide reasons

Or you can provide them now. So far you've said I'm your top suspect (multiple times, multiple ways), but not why.

As for not laying down a 'safe' vote at the moment...my suspicions are not as strong towards you or VP as they were towards RC.

Why not?

The last sentence was made jokingly and I do not see myself voting for Sotty as I think she is town

(or at least the least scummy of the three of you)

You did it again.

Without our input - which I'm grateful for your cooperation on, btw

"your" here refers to VP/Sotty, sorry
A 30-page game isn't that long, especially when most of it is whining.