Open 189~Trouble@Warren State Mental Hosp (Over)

[VP Baltar]

ok, Sotty still reads town to me on another iso. She's persistent in the Howard wagon and was integral in reviving it afte I had given up most of my hope for it. Vi on the other hand makes a few jabs at him, but she votes and unvotes him at L-4...which is pretty comfortable as scum.

After that she calls him townish until he's dead and I don't really see a reason for doing that since his play never changed.

I'm ready to vote now. Sotty or fitz, if you have something you want to say before I put her at L-1 or want to give her a chance to respond, then I'm fine with waiting. Otherwise we may as well lynch and finally bring this game to a close.

[havingfitz]

If you are ready to vote...why proclaim it but not do it? Sotty seems to have made her case and committed to it. If Vi does get to L-1...I would not vote her unless I was comfortable with voting her (though I'm not sure I will be comfortable regardless of where my vote goes). I will wait to hear what she has to say re: posts since she's been gone. I feel like I have mini town and scum VP Baltar's on my shoulders and they are both telling me to vote Vi. For different reasons.

[Sotty7]

I see no issue with waiting for Vi to come back from V/LA but for me there is little that can be said that would change my mind from my vote. I am pretty sure she is our last scum.

[VP Baltar]

ok, cool.

Vote: Vi

[Vi]

VP Baltar, when did you start seriously considering me as Your Lynch Candidate today? You didn't actually show any sign of actively moving toward me (beyond the casual "Vi or fitz" based on tubby) until I made the first move.

Although on a related note,

I did think about a no lynch but I figured that I would just be in the same position tomorrow as I am today. Having to chose between Vi/Fitz

with you (VP) being the likely NK.

What about fitz? What about you?

I am having a

really

hard time buying VPscum. I re-read day one and see him pushing on HR for pretty much the whole day. He does jump off wagon with JD, Otto and Cat votes but always finds a way back to HR apart from the day ending lynch of course. There is bussing and then there is

bussing in a game with one partner and the possibility of lots of power roles,

I just can't swallow that pill. It makes no sense for VPscum to do that. His pressure wasn't weak either he only seems to jump off HR when no one else wants to wagon with him.

Nobody expected "lots of power roles". When Otto claimed D1, I seriously thought that would be it... which is why the N1 hito kill continues to puzzle me (scum would have to think there was enough of a chance for there to be a Doctor in the setup to not aim for the Cop). Were you expecting "lots of power roles", nya?

What do you think of VP Baltar's way of handling the beginning of the Day?

I also feel pretty icky about Vi backing away from the comments made in post 871 once I caught her out. The explanation she gave just rubbed me the wrong way. Admitting she was wrong but with maximum damage control.

Well, first thing: I was working in isolation during 885. Being called scummy for asking too many questions is a favorite nontell pushed on me, so my first reaction was to deny it and move on.
Looking at the vote and the surrounding circumstances again, I can sort of understand where VP Baltar-Town may have been coming from with questioning everyone without saying much himself, but at the same time I do feel that it was a bit much at the time. (In other words, the quote from 885 was a mistake. >.> )

That just reads: "I was wrong in saying that but also a little right so it's not so bad" You can't have it both ways.

Sure I can~
This is -LyLo-. Whoever gets lynched here loses the game, and loses it for their entire team (for what my team was worth in this game <_<* ). Everyone has reason to act in self-preservation, and being the Designated Hypothetical LyLo Lynch, I have good reason to get an early start on it.

Besides, I

was

wrong

If you are ready to vote...why proclaim it but not do it?

Quickhammering is awesome and easy. Convincing a Townie to jump on someone at L-1 to end the game is hard.
There's no reason to say you're ready to vote (indicating a Final Answer that I'm scum) and not do it in this scenario, as the only things to worry about are
*me coming back and saying something mind-blowingly Townish (lol, not going to happen considering my choice is between Sotty7 and VP Baltar and he supports Sotty7)
*you being scum and quickhammering (which I don't think anyone believes at this point)
After all, if you are Town and pre-emptively hammer scum, I'm sure no Townie would complain about the hammer in postgame.

Vi on the other hand makes a few jabs at him, but she votes and unvotes him at L-4...which is pretty comfortable as scum.

Me jumping back on the wagon to put him at L-2 and saying VOTE HOWARDROARK ^.^ (443) clearly never occurred later.

I have urgent papers to grade, Edgeworth to watch, a short temper atm, and in spite of my streak of never getting lynched in LyLo (see previous comment on what getting lynched in LyLo means) no particular desire to make more of a concerted effort to help my team than I already have. I'll come back to the VP Baltar wall when I get to it, with zero promise of a wallpost. Vote stays where it is for now.

Cut by VP Baltar: lol

[Vi]

EBWOP for better reading comprehension:

I did think about a no lynch but I figured that I would just be in the same position tomorrow as I am today.

Having to chose between Vi/Fitz

with you (VP) being the likely NK.

You already said that the chance of the Mafia NK being compulsive was "slim". There's nothing to suggest it IS compulsive. I agree; that's why I moved on from my strongest case.
So... what's the choice over?

[havingfitz]

I'll come back to the VP Baltar wall when I get to it, with zero promise of a wallpost.

I'll wait to hear what you have to say.

In this format with 4 people in LYLO...what happens if we end the day 2-2? Hold out hope that scum do a NK and see which two agree tomorrow or have a no-kill by scum and be back at square one?

[VP Baltar]

VP Baltar, when did you start seriously considering me as Your Lynch Candidate today? You didn't actually show any sign of actively moving toward me (beyond the casual "Vi or fitz" based on tubby) until I made the first move.

So, you're trying to paint it as OMGUS or something? I said YESTERDAY that you were on my shortlist of the final scum (even though I thought we were going to win with Rosso's lynch).

I definitely wanted to see what you had to say today precisely because of that. Needless to say, it looks scummy. Don't get me wrong, you've put in a good effort this game and I thought you were town for a long time, but PoE is a cruel mistress. You can self-hammer any time.

[VP Baltar]

In this format with 4 people in LYLO...what happens if we end the day 2-2? Hold out hope that scum do a NK and see which two agree tomorrow or have a no-kill by scum and be back at square one?

A majority vote count of (0.5 x PLAYERS_ALIVE) + 1 with the fraction truncated is needed to lynch. (EXAMPLE: (0.5 x 9) + 1 = 4.5 +1 = 5.5 = 5)

A non-majority vote count results in a "no lynch" occurring.

[Vi]

VP Baltar, when did you start seriously considering me as Your Lynch Candidate today? You didn't actually show any sign of actively moving toward me (beyond the casual "Vi or fitz" based on tubby) until I made the first move.

So, you're trying to paint it as OMGUS or something? I said YESTERDAY that you were on my shortlist of the final scum (even though I thought we were going to win with Rosso's lynch).

I definitely wanted to see what you had to say today precisely because of that. Needless to say, it looks scummy. Don't get me wrong, you've put in a good effort this game and I thought you were town for a long time, but PoE is a cruel mistress. You can self-hammer any time.

Why is what I said - take my previous post, for instance - scummy (more likely to come from scum than Town)?

You did say YESTERDAY that I was on your short list (I was on

everyone's short list

) for scum, but then why bother waiting so long to vote me?

I'm not self-hammering. I'm not out of hope - close, what with my fate resting in the now-confirmed-Town fitz, but not completely out.

Did you read half of that previous post, or just the sentence with your name and a question mark?~

@fitz: If the count becomes 2 vs. 2, then someone has to jump over and break the tie before the game ends. In addition, it would

guarantee

that one of the two people being wagoned is scum (as if scum is on either wagon, they can jump over to the other one

a la

quickhammer).

[Vi]

EBWOP: The fourth line (a snide remark) should be answered by the first line (a question). Apologies, that was unnecessary.

[VP Baltar]

I'm not self-hammering. I'm not out of hope - close, what with my fate resting in the now-confirmed-Town fitz, but not completely out.

So you're claiming scum then?

Did you read half of that previous post, or just the sentence with your name and a question mark?~

I did indeed read it. Most of it wasn't directed at me, so I don't know what you're expecting. As far as your Howard vote (which I'm sure is what you want me to talk about), we're both incorrect. You put him to L-3 and then Cat bumped him up to L-2. Of course, immediately after this you would have benefited from the replacements coming in and dumping a bunch of new discussion material. After which you say:

I wouldn't mind jumping off the Howie wagon for a while.

Unvote: HowardRoark
Vote: Cat

(L-4)

What I fail to understand is how after this incarnation of the Howie wagon he suddenly stopped being a scum suspect for you.

[Vi]

I'm not self-hammering. I'm not out of hope - close, what with my fate resting in the now-confirmed-Town fitz, but not completely out.

So you're claiming scum then?

Remind me of this one the next time someone says

my

reading comprehension is bad.

I did indeed read it. Most of it wasn't directed at me, so I don't know what you're expecting.

I'm

expecting

you to see if anything I'm saying to Sotty is reasonable. Of course, this only applies if you're Town, etc.

Cat was originally a pressure wagon (see Vi #101) (as was JDodge before him; the expectation was that they would post something Townish-looking and then I would go back to HowardRoark - which I hinted at a number of times in my snipes at HR - but that never happened) that took off after hito's Catvote/reasons.
On Day 2 I posted this--

I am interested in a HowardRoark wagon, but I don't want it to be the only thing I do. Thus, spreading the hate.

but I started to get the impression of a genuinely swamped player lost in the shuffle somewhere in the middle of it (see Vi #100 for corroboration behind the gut Town read I got), and I did particularly dislike Izzy's play (ironic in hindsight, though I don't think she ever posted WHY she disliked you).

[Vi]

Why is what I said - take my previous post, for instance - scummy (more likely to come from scum than Town)?

lol don't skip this

[Sotty7]

Although on a related note,

I did think about a no lynch but I figured that I would just be in the same position tomorrow as I am today. Having to chose between Vi/Fitz

with you (VP) being the likely NK.

What about fitz? What about you?

I never like to trust situations where it looks like the mod has confirmed a player without knowing 100%, hence the question I posed to Tubby. Obviously, Fitz is now confirmed town, so it turns out we were right but at the time of posting I wasn't going to proclaim him confirmed town at such a critical moment in the game.

With that in mind VP is my strongest town read due to the HR interaction. I would have thought the scum would kill VP leaving me with you and Fitz to sort though. An argument could have been made against Fitz but I think it is a lot harder to sell VP scum. In my opinion at least. Also at this time I didn't realize that both VP and Fitz saw me as strong town, which some of there posts hint at. Knowing that now I would say I would be a high night kill choice.

I am having a

really

hard time buying VPscum. I re-read day one and see him pushing on HR for pretty much the whole day. He does jump off wagon with JD, Otto and Cat votes but always finds a way back to HR apart from the day ending lynch of course. There is bussing and then there is

bussing in a game with one partner and the possibility of lots of power roles,

I just can't swallow that pill. It makes no sense for VPscum to do that. His pressure wasn't weak either he only seems to jump off HR when no one else wants to wagon with him.

Nobody expected "lots of power roles". When Otto claimed D1, I seriously thought that would be it... which is why the N1 hito kill continues to puzzle me (scum would have to think there was enough of a chance for there to be a Doctor in the setup to not aim for the Cop). Were you expecting "lots of power roles", nya?

There is a difference between “the possibility of” and “expecting a lot of” isn't there?

To answer your question, no I wasn't expecting a bunch of power roles when I replaced in.

EBWOP for better reading comprehension:

I did think about a no lynch but I figured that I would just be in the same position tomorrow as I am today.

Having to chose between Vi/Fitz

with you (VP) being the likely NK.

You already said that the chance of the Mafia NK being compulsive was "slim". There's nothing to suggest it IS compulsive. I agree; that's why I moved on from my strongest case.
So... what's the choice over?

I have said since the start of the day that I don't think it is a really hard choice, but there is still a choice to make. I don't know about you but I am a pessimist at heart and lylo always frays my nerves. I question everything before making my leap. I have read and re-read the game to feel confident enough to place my vote.

[havingfitz]

I have said since the start of the day that I don't think it is a really hard choice, but there is still a choice to make.

I wish I felt the same way about it not being a hard choice.

I don't know about you but I am a pessimist at heart and lylo always frays my nerves. I question everything before making my leap. I have read and re-read the game to feel confident enough to place my vote.

My sentiments exactly.

The only thing I know for sure is...my read on Sotty as scum is weak, as it appears it everyone else's read on Sotty is. So Sotty isn't going to get lynched today. That leaves VP and Vi. If both of them are town...we've lost. If I place my vote on Vi, game over. But I'm not ready to do that yet. So just out of curiosity & to hopefully confirm Sotty (for what it's worth) while I decide if I would really rather vote Vi:

Vote: VP

[VP Baltar]

I'm expecting you to see if anything I'm saying to Sotty is reasonable. Of course, this only applies if you're Town, etc.

I don't even see much of you questioning her in there, so what am I supposed to be evaluating? The only real point you seem to bring up is a single line about PRs and I believe Sotty's above post covers pretty thoroughly that you are twisting what she said.

I think what you say about doing whatever it takes not to get lynched in lylo is fair enough, regardless of alignment, but I fail to see how that should make me not see you as scum here.

Basically, there is all of this evidence pointing to you as scum and not so much pointing to Sotty. If you expect me to believe you're not scum, then convince me why Sotty is scum because I certainly don't see it.

Why is what I said - take my previous post, for instance - scummy (more likely to come from scum than Town)?

I'm not sure if I understand this question. You're asking why your post 904 is more likely to come from scum? ....to win the game perhaps?

[Sotty7]

Unvote, Vote:VP

[Vi]

And that reduces today to a series of quaint misunderstandings.

Job well done, Sotty.

[VP Baltar]

sigh.

gj Sotty. I hate you.

[Sotty7]

[Vi]

I don't hate you~
That was a very clean job. When I looked back and saw that you started the Catwagon, I was impressed.
What made you choose that avatar, though

fitz, I wouldn't recommend making those same moves upon replacing in again, but after I dropped the wall on you you started to come out looking Townish.
I'd like to see you as an original player sometime.

[VP Baltar]

I don't really hate you. I'm just jealous of your superiority.

[havingfitz]

fitz, I wouldn't recommend making those same moves upon replacing in again

Which moves? The VP vote? Just sorry I didn't do it sooner and save you a few long posts.

That's twice Sotty...I will now vote for you everytime we play in the future.

Good job.

[VP Baltar]

Honestly, Sotty deserves a lot of praise for this game considering she was up against two cops and a doc. I probably would have been so depressed if I had gotten a scum role PM in this game.

Granted, Rosso's an idiot, but it was still very well played and Vi is right about the Cat wagon. It was almost elegant the way you pulled it off. The thought briefly crossed my mind that it was a redirect from the Howard wagon, but the way you came back to him later and seemed to be genuinely trying to get him lynched squelched my doubts.

Guess my meta of you isn't nearly as good as it should be. Congrats again!


Thanks for modding, tubby. I know this game was probably more of a hassle than you had imagined it was going to be originally. I was super excited about the player list when it started and I don't really know what happened. Getting that many replacements is a real pain. My only complaint on your end was the vote counts needing to be much more often (VC analysis was nigh impossible) and being cryptic about the rules. In an open game, there should be nothing that isn't known except for peoples' alignments. I feel that you were actively interferring with the game by refusing to state your rules clearly. Anyhow, thanks again.