Tarhalindur wrote:Snow_Bunny wrote:Tarhalindur wrote:Regardless, I'll be unvoting you now, Snow_Bunny just claimed scum:
Snow_Bunny wrote:I still think lynching the mod is a good idea, but right now I'm more interested in how the Navy's wagons develops. I'm finding him a bit scummy, but I think it's a bit early to be lynching someone. Also, I want to hear from that
false
claim as well.
Also, I would like to hear what Tar knows about the mod, if that isn't asking for much.
Utterly noncommittal (refuses to take any stand... and yet insinuates that NavyCherub is scum, oh dear mother of gods is this a scumtell), blatant fishing, general "Why hasn't this player been run up for this post alone?" factor.
Unvote, Vote: Snow_Bunny
-Utterly noncommittal? I have a stance (I want to lynch the mod). Navy is scummy, but not enough to draw me from my current stance. At least IO have a stance, not like others that say "I think it's a good idea, but I won't vote for now." Talk about hyprocrite.
Your wording makes it clear that you think NavyCherub is scum (see the falseclaim comment), yet you refuse to vote for him or even make it clear that you'll vote for him in the future. That's a GIANT scumtell, nearly lynchworthy on its own.
As I said before, the falseclaim comment was a joke, and thus why it was slashed. I said I found him scummy, but that doesn't imply that I believe he's scum. For the same matter, I think you are scummy, but I'm not 100% sure you are scum.
-Blatant fishing?
I'm sorry, but I'm just asking for info about if lynching the mod is a good idea. I never asked for your role, rolename, special abilities, etc, etc.
I just want to know if you know something about lynching the mod being a bad idea. I don't know about you, but if I knew something that would be bad for town, I would post it asap. On the other hand, you posted something that would be bad for
scum
. So, yeah.
The problem with your argument is that asking for elaboration on lynching the Mod is BY NECESSITY asking for much more than that.
I can't possibly know that. I can't see how asking for another player to give information on a matter that would help or hinder town is role-fishing.
(I really find your claim as a Bomb to be not that useful for town. You just warned scum, and thus, setup a possible protection for your own lynch.)
By claiming, I allow my ability to be used as a second lynch if necessary (via pseudovoting to force a player to hammer me and outright lynching any player who refuses to do so). If we don't use me as a second lynch, I also put the scum in the position of choosing whether they want to deal with me breaking the setup if/when we massclaim or losing a member to get rid of me. Both seem like pretty good ideas to me.
As someone else said, nothing prevents scum from using that for their own means. Truly, I don't see anything good coming from that claims. The second lynch can hit town as well, and more town deaths in a single day can't be a good thing.
-
"general "Why hasn't this player been run up for this post alone?" factor."
...Eh?
It's exactly what it says on the tin. The quoted post reads so scummily to me that I'm surprised there's not a huge wagon on you for it.[/quote}
You know, maybe, and just maybe, because no one else share your flawed point of view. Sometimes a bad argument is just bad.
So, Tar, it seems you are trying to build something based on sand.
Bullshit - I trust in my intuitive read that you're scum. You're trying to dig information out of me that I would have already revealed if I could do so without claiming further. You sat on the fence about NavyCherub in such a way that I am nearly certain comes from a scumbag.
Your intuition is based on a single post, btw, and flawed. For that same matter, you're trying to hold information that could be useful to town (I have no knowledge or proof that you can't post it. For all I know, you
don't
want to post it.) I didn't sat on the fence about Navy. I want to lynch the mod. Unless scum blatantly comes out, my vote will stay on the mod.
And fact, it seems that you are the one being noncommittal to this game. You claim to have a scum-hurting role (that I still can't see why would you claim it),
Once again, one valid reaction to a bomb claim is to use it as a second lynch. That's why I claimed. (If I was a SuperSaint instead, I would have insisted on my own lynch - the fact that my role forces the scum to decide between two losing propositions if left alive is the only reason I've been indecisive about optimal play.
claim to have info about the mod (that you prefer not to share),
No, I wouldn't call it "preferring" not to share at all. The words you're looking for are "absolutely refuse to share unless forced to fullclaim, possibly even then - and I won't explain why until asked to fullclaim".
and claim that you need time to puzzle out your role before you can vote (well, that was before, but still).
No, I didn't need time to puzzle out my role - but rather to figure out whether forcing my own lynch D1 was optimal play or not. (Still not sure on that, btw.)
Seems to me that you are active lurking. Your vote against Navy seemed more like an easy jump on a forming wagon than anything else. Your vote against me is just based on what? Me asking your information?
Given what you're effectively asking me for and the way in which you asked for it, I think fishing is an EXTREMELY appropriate description of your previous post. Moreover, you outright stated that you were "
Moreover, you made it clear that you thought NavyCherub was scum (via that "
false
claim" comment of yours, yet didn't vote him or really explain why you weren't voting him. Moreover, you commented that "I'm more interested in how the Navy's wagons develops" - watching to see how a wagon develops is EXTREMELY characteristic scum behavior, especially when you're effectively pushing along the wagon (by commenting on how you think NavyCherub is scummy and even insinuating that whatever he claimed would be a falseclaim) but not voting.
Combine those two problems, and I find it very, very difficult to believe you're town.
On my own NavyCherub vote - he claimed that the reason for his vote was "reaction testing". That's enough of a scumtell to be voteworthy, especially in the early game (though global roleblock, if proven, means he's probably town after all).
[quote[This leads me to believe that there's something on that info you don't want town to know, and you shield yourself with such weak attacks as "blatant rolefishing" when obviously that wasn't the point of my request.
Well, there's something in that info that I think SOMEBODY shouldn't know, I'll give you that.
So, in general:
-Active lurking ("I'll explain once I've puzzled that out. " "Let me think over how best to deal with that claim")
No, that's just explaining that I'm not certain that I've figured out the best course of option given what I know (I'm still not sure whether or not forcing my own lynch D1 is optimal, nor am I sure that forcing NavyCherub to global roleblock N1 on pain on lynch D2 if he doesn't is optimal).
-Noncomittal and lack of a real stance
I think you're scum, I thought NavyCherub was scum until he fullclaimed and claimed a provable ability that I think likely comes from a townie, I think the Mod is likely neutral if she has a win condition but that killing her (especially lynching her) may have unexpected consequences, I haven't thought enough about the NavyCherub wagon (one of {Cobalt/magnus_orion} is probably your scumbuddy, given the speed of the fourth and fifth votes), and there's about half a dozen players in the game who I don't have a firm read on yet.
The first two, at least, should have been evident to you when you made this post.
I fail to see how these comprise being "noncommittal" and not having a "real stance".
-Claimed a role that, imo, would have been better stayed unclaimed, first, as it would have hurt mafia more, and second, as it raises a small but present protection in case of a lynch against himself (well, that's part my perception, but still).
Two problems with not claiming Bomb immediately:
1) Failing to claim Bomb means that you're denying the rest of the Town the opportunity to use you as a second lynch.
2) Since letting me survive to massclaim tends to let me rip apart scumteams, this puts them in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation... and increases my chances of surviving long enough to actually break the setup in half.
-You supposedly hold information that would help town regarding the issue of lynching the mod but you don't care to share it.
Misrep - I know that sharing exactly what I know on the Mod would be a very, very stupid idea.
-Kind of hypocrital attack against me, based on a subversion of the facts (really? Blatant fishing? That's all you could come up with?),
Pot, meet kettle - the real crux of my case is that your behavior towards the NavyCherub wagon is classic scum behavior, and you know it.
also increases my suspicious based on the information he holds about the mod.
So, in conclusion, Tar is really scummy. I still think lynching the mod is a better option, though. And thus, my vote remains as it is, but not without first:
FoS: Tar
I wouldn't mind a Tar lynch at all, but I really prefer a mod lynch first.
Just because of the points brought before, this level of reasoning is possible for Snow_Bunny. What do you think, everyone?
I think you're a damn scumbag for reasons listed above and want you dead (either through lynching or through having you hammer me).[/quote]
You know, the problem with all of that is that you are asking us to believe you. You are asking us to believe that you are town and that you are doing everything for our sake. I can't possibly know that. And I have no reason to believe it. Your claim can be confirmed, surely, but not in a practical manner (you'll end dead, so no reason to not believe whatever comes from that). But, other than that, how can we confirm that you are truly thinking everything over and not just activelurking? How can we know that you didn't falseclaim for a gambit? Or, maybe you are indeed a bomber, but how can we be sure you are town? If I hadn't attacked you, chances are you would still be "thinking what to do".
So, no. Sorry, but I don't believe you. Still, I prefer a mod lynch.
RayFrost wrote:I also want those of you that are voting the mod to explain why you think the mod is
the best
lynch for the day when there is no guarantee that the mod is even in the game at this point.
The mod can't be aligned with town or scum, as that would, in all likeness, disbalance the setup. Thus, the mod must have its own goals (and I bet they aren't exactly pro-town). By lynching the mod, we are assuring that we are eliminating something that isn't helping town, and that can possibly harm it. If we go for a different lynch, we might end up lynching town. So, given the case, I rather lynch the mod than another player.
Netopalis wrote:5. Snow_Bunny - Lack of posting...wants to lynch the mod...Decent attack on Tar, though. This is outweighed by not believing the confirmable Cherub claim. Scum read.
Lack of posting -> Read sig. I'm still VLA.
Not believing Navy -> For me, it's not easily confirmable. Then, why would I believe it?
Taking a long break from mafia games.
In honor of Erika Furudo, my first scum win (Umineko Mafia).
) mod game?
