Last Will Mafia (Over)

[Shotty to the Body]

This above post only makes me more sure of a dana-ZEE pair.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Count

Gayle (11) - fishythefish, danakillsu, Dr Pepper, DeathRowKitty, Netlava, Shotty to the Body, Steam-Powered Shovel, Amished, Netopalis
hp [leaves] (6) - Elscouta, The1fifi, CryMeARiver, ortolan
The1fifi (2) - hp [leaves], Parama
Dr Pepper (1) - Gayle
Shotty to the Body (1) - vikingfan
DeathRowKitty (1) - ZEEnon
ZEEnon (1) - DocPotter

Not Voting (2) - sykedoc, raider8169

[/quote]

[Fishythefish]

Fishythefish, i'm not completely sure why you don't want to lynch people with a lot of votes. I realize that you don't want stacks of votes piled up however if the vigilante shoots a scummy person with a lot of votes like you hope then doesn't that produce the same effect as lynching the player? I'm not quite seeing the difference.

If we lynch someone, their vote will immediately go to someone else. That person dies in the night, all those votes go to another person. Vote stacks are inevitably going to build up, but they will build up twice as fast if we lynch people with lots of votes.

I've really got very little to say here. I think Gayle is the best lynch for the day, and, conveniently enough, he seems to be about to be lynched.

[Elscouta]

Yop, back from vacation. Comments from the last 5 pages:

800 - 805: Amished attacking CryMeARiver for attacking hp[leaves]. I feel weird that Amished is attacking only CMAR, while other people (including me) are on the wagon. Unsure whether Amished-scum is defending hp-scum or if he is just a townie pointing holes in CMAR reasoning (that I agree was a bit weird).

815: After having attacked CMAR, hp[leaves] votes TheIffy (another of his attackers). I'm a bit puzzled that CMAR and TheIffy are both attacked by him for pursuing a bogus case, and i'm not even referenced by his posts (although i'll admit i wasn't really vocal...)

827: Gayle "hey guys what's happening", after the last pages were discussing his scuminess. This "relaxed" post feels forced. I don't like it.

840 - 849 : ortolan joins the hp[leaves] wagon. I like his reasoning (probably because it's the same as mine)

850 - 858: Gayle and Netopalis rehash their argument of day0. Both of their viewpoint on strategy don't look especially scummy on me. That they call each other scum makes me feel one of them could be, though.

868: Gayle makes a post showing that Amished and DRK are voting him despite him being their lead suspect. I fully agree that this makes Amished and DRK look pretty bad.

883 by Amished raised my scumdar even more: Basically, his answer to Gayle is "well, I didn't get support for the first two wagons, so I moved on you to be productive." How is aligning yourself with the remainder of the town productive?

Unvote, Vote: Amished

Nothing of note until 924, mainly misreps that are taken back.

942: Amished unvotes Gayle for voting Shovel because his reasons for voting Gayle are weak. That was... weird. I didn't feel that Shovel reasoning for voting Gayle was weaker that Amished ones. Makes me feel more confident on my vote.

947 makes me feel Amished last post might have been an honest mistake... Not sure what to deduce.

973 made me cry. (Netlava posts about how he is just fine with a Gayle lynch)

974 made me happy. (ZeeNon provides information)

Conclusions:

- I don't like Amished attack on Gayle
- hp[leaves] didn't do anything during these pages, so my suspicions on him stay the same (high)
- I don't see why Gayle is attracting that many votes and Amished is attracting so many "most pro-town player" tags.

[DeathRowKitty]

868: Gayle makes a post showing that Amished and DRK are voting him despite him being their lead suspect. I fully agree that this makes Amished and DRK look pretty bad.

Where did I say Gayle wasn't my top suspect?

[Elscouta]

Hmm. I might have misinterpreted Gayle post. Looking at your ISO, it looks like you simply changed opinion about who was scummy, which is not as bad.

I'm unsure whether this is a conscious misrepresentation by Gayle or just his classic "let's exagerate everything". Now, i'm feeling that the Gayle wagon is mostly dependant on Gayle meta, something i don't know at all (and no, i won't read tens of games just to get a grasp of Gayle meta).

I'll double-check Amished ISO to see if my perception of his actions has been twisted somehow.

[DocPotter]

The Gayle wagon, from memory, seems to be based on an Amished theory that Gayle and TTTT shared similar opinions in D0, specifically reguarding Yos, but that they didn't seem to interact with each other. Which, in his opinion, leads to Gayle being in a different scum group to TTTT.

The rest of it is Gayle's defense posts and stuff.

I'm not sure what to make of it personally. I still think other people are more likely scum.

[hp [leaves]]

I don't agree with the Gayle lynch. He just looks like a townie with extra caution.

[ZEEnon]

DeathRowKitty would be a nice lynch today for the reasons previously mentioned but if that's not going to happen a hp [leaves] lynch takes priority over Gayle lynch in my opinion due to the fact that I feel Gayle is town.

[Netopalis]

Why do you think Gayle is town?

[ZEEnon]

I guess you missed my previous generalization. Allow me to expand.

If you do an iso on Gayle, you easily see that his suspicions are clear and consistent. Had he been scum I think he would have been more prone to let go his suspicions of you since his iso post 7 however he hasn't done so.

Gayle's entire posting remains fairly constant in that his tone seems to be slightly abrasive for all his posts. Considering if he was mafia, I would expect him to be more inclined to 'sweeten' up to people, so to speak. The way Gayle posts seems to be very self-centered like "How do you NOT know i'm town?" kind of mindset, which I can totally understand considering I may be prone to that playstyle at times.

In addition in case you haven't noticed all of his posts contains substance (disregarding his joke post). This of course doesn't indicate alignment however i'm sure that non-town would have more posts with less conviction yet his posts clearly show thought has been put into them (to me at least).

If you still believe Gayle to be scum, then tell me this: What benefit at all would Gayle have to oppose two of the "3 Almighty Players" that everyone wanted elected D0 (Yosarian2/Netopalis)? I can see scum buddying up to them, perhaps even slightly suspecting them with non-commital evidence, but outright defying them seems unlikely for so early in the game. I think that he is a stubborn yet eager, abrasive town-aligned player.

Despite all these reasons for thinking he is town, I am not above 85% sure he is town.
I'm just telling ya why I think he's town.

[ZEEnon]

Netopalis is DeathRowKitty your scum partner by the way?

[danakillsu]

Had he been scum I think he would have been more prone to let go his suspicions of you since his iso post 7 however he hasn't done so.

I disagree. My experience has been, if you go after someone like Gayle did, the town will be even more up for lynching you when you give it up. I gave up a case on someone because others disagreed and got lynched for it. If I was scum, I would not give up a case against someone unless a better case came along. And I think that's what Gayle is doing.

[vikingfan]

I disagree heavily with you elscouta. The two 'almighty' players that you mention have already been proven town and I'm much more likely to put it down to bad play than to say, 'well she's let go her suspicions.' I'm not buying it.

unvote vote Gayle

. That's L-1. I'd like a claim at this point.

[Netopalis]

Netopalis is DeathRowKitty your scum partner by the way?

Sorry, missed this earlier. Of course not. Why would you think that?

[Netopalis]

I'll second the call for a claim, BTW - we're not going to get anywhere until we get through this first day...

[DocPotter]

^^ True. Claim time.

[ortolan]

Gayle better claim (not that I think she's scummy)

[The1fifi]

Gayle is posting on other games with me and ignoring this...

[CryMeARiver]

Gayle is posting on other games with me and ignoring this...

I haven't read through the past like 5 or 6 pages, but that really makes me want to hammer...but I am very interested in his (fake)claim

[Gayle]

Unfortunately, I can only post in one game at a time.

I'm the stubborn type, so I am not going to claim. I standby everything I said.

Remember the smugface.png. That is all.

[CryMeARiver]

Unfortunately, I can only post in one game at a time.

I'm the stubborn type, so I am not going to claim. I standby everything I said.

Remember the smugface.png. That is all.

wow...Once I finish reading, your lack of claim on top of what made 9 people vote for you will probably make me hammer

[Netopalis]

Gayle: Surely you can at least appreciate the position that you're in? I mean, really, there's a fairly large mountain of evidence against you. Far more than I've seen against most correct lynches.

[Gayle]

Okay, help me understand why I am scum. From my understanding I am scum because

1, I didn't want to elect Yos, and my reasons for that somehow aren't good enough
2, A player who flipped scum also did not want to elect Yos
3, I argued alot

That is a mountain of evidence?

[Netopalis]

1) You were willing to do practically anything to prevent Yos' election, because you felt he was "creepy" and you "didn't trust" me, although you contended that he wasn't scummy and that you really did have good reasons, which made sense to nobody but yourself and which required more than 10 pages of back-and-forth to establish.

2) You denied attacking Yos, despite the fact that it was mathematically proven that almost 2/3rds of your posts mentioned him in a disparaging fashion.

3) You immediately backed off on this when Yos flipped town because you wanted to look more town and you failed to own up to your D1 statements.

4) You call for more votes on Dr. Pepper without stating a reason other than you don't like his outlined post format. It is later explained why this is found to be scummy, but it seems that you follow the format of "Accuse first! Then, if you can find a reason, try to justify it, but only when forced to."

5) You tunnel against Dr. Pepper for most of D1, failing to produce substantial content against or in support of any other player.

6) You practically avoid saying anything about the popular ZeeNON wagon, aside from a few oblique comments against it.

7) You drop off the face of the earth when attacked, then are shocked when people don't lessen their suspicion against you.

8) You buddied up to a confirmed scum.

9) You support odd people in the game but don't seem to like anybody who is really advancing the game.

10) I wanted to make this list end at an even 10 bullet points.