A point I'd not earlier considered -- but I think it's doubtful that Stewie, if scum, could be both a blocker and a vig. Still, to my mind, that makes no-lynch even
more
attractive. If we're wrong today, you're saying that either one of them might be able to double-kill tonight...meaning you'll be dead. With no-lynch, at least there's a better-than-average chance that there'll still be three tomorrow AND we'll have more information.
For the record, I still lean toward Stewie being scum over Yggdrasil. His last "doesn't matter much" post makes it sound like he's confident he'll win this regardless of whether the doc or the claimed vig is lynched today (and he doesn't even consider that it might very well be
him
in the noose)...which is exactly what a scum blocker would be if we lynched today. He also says "
I
can block and lynch" instead of "I'll block and we'll lynch" which sounds to me like an "acting alone" mentality. Then there's the "last night" thing and the fact that he questioned his blockee...I just feel like there's a lot against him. The thing is, if we lynch Stewie and are wrong...we've lost the only role we have that can completely disable scum.
I think a single scum can be sure of a win/draw if we lynch anyone but them today. I think we'll make the footing more even by heading into night with all of us alive.
Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza
The only problem I have with no lynch is that it gives me a choice when it comes to blocking, and if I block wrong (by either blocking the doctor or the vigi) then the town would probably lose. What I could do is just not block anyone, but that might not be the best thing to do. I do realize, however, that from a colective point of view, no lynch might be the best alternative, and I'm willing to go with it, but first I want to discuss what my night action should be in that case. If we decide to lynch either meme or ygg, then the clear course of action would be to block the other (unless we win with the lynch).
His last "doesn't matter much" post makes it sound like he's confident he'll win this regardless of whether the doc or the claimed vig is lynched today which is exactly what a scum blocker would be if we lynched today.
Isn't it exactly what a townie blocker would think today? I pretty much know CoolBot isn't scum. All I have to do as far as I'm concerned to win this game is lynch either you or ygg and block the other at night. The next day, Coolbot and myself would overpower whichever of you is left, thus winning the game.
(and he doesn't even consider that it might very well be him in the noose)
I do consider it, and that's why I reply to posts pointing at me in one way or another, but that post reffered to who I preffer having lynched, and I explained that either you or ygg would be a good (explanation above).
He also says "I can block and lynch" instead of "I'll block and we'll lynch" which sounds to me like an "acting alone" mentality.
The only problem I have with no lynch is that it gives me a choice when it comes to blocking, and if I block wrong (by either blocking the doctor or the vigi) then the town would probably lose. What I could do is just not block anyone, but that might not be the best thing to do. I do realize, however, that from a colective point of view, no lynch might be the best alternative, and I'm willing to go with it, but first I want to discuss what my night action should be in that case. If we decide to lynch either meme or ygg, then the clear course of action would be to block the other (unless we win with the lynch).
His last "doesn't matter much" post makes it sound like he's confident he'll win this regardless of whether the doc or the claimed vig is lynched today which is exactly what a scum blocker would be if we lynched today.
Isn't it exactly what a townie blocker would think today? I pretty much know CoolBot isn't scum. All I have to do as far as I'm concerned to win this game is lynch either you or ygg and block the other at night. The next day, Coolbot and myself would overpower whichever of you is left, thus winning the game.
(and he doesn't even consider that it might very well be him in the noose)
I do consider it, and that's why I reply to posts pointing at me in one way or another, but that post reffered to who I preffer having lynched, and I explained that either you or ygg would be a good (explanation above).
He also says "I can block and lynch" instead of "I'll block and we'll lynch" which sounds to me like an "acting alone" mentality.
I would be comfortable lynching Stewie. I would not vote for either MeMe or CoolBot, but I will go along with a no lynch if we reach a consensus on that. However, I would rather just lynch Stewie today and not risk some unforseen variable screwing us over tonight.
[size=75][i]"The owl of Minerva takes flight only when the shades of night are falling."[/i]
Both MeMe and Ygg want to vote for me, although Ygg doesn't seem to be open to other options, which makes me suspicious of him, since if he's scum he would need to lynch me to win. This tips the balance towards ygg, although again, from my point of view it doesn't make a difference.
I'll post some scenarios. This is more for me than for you, but I might aswell post it so everyone can see it and point out any flaws.
1. I am scum
a) we lynch me. You guys win.
b) we lynch ygg. I block meme and kill her, I win.
c) we lynch meme, I block and kill ygg, I win.
d) we lynch coolbot, I have to decide between ygg and meme. If I block meme, I risk ygg killing me, and if I block ygg I can't kill either of them, assuming that meme protects ygg.
e) we go no lynch. I would have to block meme and kill coolbot, but that would mean that ygg would kill me. If I block ygg, then we are back at 4 the next day.
2. MeMe is scum
a) we lynch me. Ygg can't kill meme, and meme can kill whoever she wants, winning the game.
b) we lynch ygg. I can block meme, and coolbot and myself can lynch her the next day.
c) we lynch meme, we win.
d) we lynch coolbot. I have to choose between blocking meme or ygg. If I block ygg it's game over, but if I block meme then we still have to lynch her (although the lack of kill should be proof enough that meme is scum)
e) we go no lynch. I would not know what to do in this case, since ygg may have double kill, but if meme is scum I would not expect her to tell the truth, and she may have vigi kill also. This is a situation I would like to discuss.
3. Ygg is scum
a) we lynch me. Ygg kills and vigi kills coolbot. I suppose that's a tie, since meme can't be killed at night
b) we lynch ygg. we win
c) we lynch meme. I block ygg, the next day coolbot and myself lynch ygg and win the game.
d) we lynch coolbot. I have to decide between blocking ygg or meme. If I block meme, then ygg is able to kill either of us and therefore win the game.
e) we go no lynch. I would not know what to do in this case, since ygg may have double kill, but if meme is scum I would not expect her to tell the truth, and she may have vigi kill also. This is a situation I would like to discuss.
4. Coolbot is scum. This would mean that we have another killer on the loose.
If we lynch him, then whether we win or not would depend on how I block. It could also depend on MeMe's protection, or ygg's vigi kill, depending on who is scum.
I'm still having a hard time attributing Nai's death to a vig, and no one has offered a convincing argument that there isn't an SK. I would be open to considering a 2 mafia/1SK setup or a 3 mafia/1SK setup (meaning we have 2 anti-town roles left, making the results of a no lynch less certain), unless someone can convince me why we don't have an SK left.
Stewie, why do you find MeMe suspicious?
[size=75][i]"The owl of Minerva takes flight only when the shades of night are falling."[/i]
For similar reasons as to why I'm suspicious of you. Basically, if either of you is scum then you can lynch me and ensure a win. What makes you more suspicious than meme is that you don't seem to be considering anything other than lynching me. What makes meme suspicious is that she changed her mind about me today, when, if scum, she realized that she can end the game by lynching me (once the claims were over). Notice how she did not mention my "last night" post until we were all finished claiming, thus she knew I was roleblocker.
And now that I think about it, if she's scum then she would know that phoebus was a doctor, so it would be a smart move for her to buy backup doctor. However, this would only make sense if she's lying about when she bought it, and actually bought it night 3, before she knew Nai was going to die.
Right now I would like to hear from coolbot. Know what he thinks we should do, etc.
Stewie wrote:Notice how she did not mention my "last night" post until we were all finished claiming, thus she knew I was roleblocker.
Uh -- yeah -- of
course
my mind change came after the role claims. Let me refresh everyone's memory with the whole story here...
MeMe wrote:Stewie...I think you've just stepped in it. At the beginning of today you said:
Stewie wrote:Before we do that, we should discuss the existance of a serial killer (we did have two kills last night, and if they can't be explained then there is probably a sk).
When you said that, I read it as "I'm a doctor who protected Thesp...since he's dead he must have been targeted twice" -- which is the ONLY pro-town meaning I can wring from it. How ELSE could a pro-town player know that there were two kills last night when there's only one reflected in the morning scene? You didn't claim doctor, though...and the only other interpretation of your post that I can see is "I'm a killer & my kill failed." You know, like it would if you targeted an unkillable at night player.
And the fact that CoolBot was blocked last night does nothing to confirm your alignment as, according to the front page, scum had access to everything except vigilante & backups.
The "last night" comment didn't turn my head until your claim didn't jive with the only pro-town interpretation of it I could see. Your claim made me next-to-POSITIVE you were scum...but then you replied...
Stewie wrote:I said last when I meant the one before the last. Obiously last night there was only one kill - but there was no need to recall that since it had just happened. Since there was only one kill last night, and two the night before, we have to explain the kill the night before last or else there's a sk.
To which I replied...
MeMe wrote:Hmm...gotta admit that sounds
kinda
plausible.
Another question, though: since you blocked CoolBot last night, you should've been fairly sure that he wasn't responsible for Thesp's death. Why then did you put forth his name as the first claimant?
Changing my mind about you wasn't about you claiming role blocker. It was about you seeming to contradict yourself. Twice. Did you
really
forget this, Stewie??
It's incredible that in your last post you say "if scum, she realized that she can end the game by lynching me," while totally ignoring the fact that I'm the one currently arguing hardest for no-lynch because I'm
not sure
. CoolBot has said he thinks it's smarter just to lynch today. Yggdrasil has said he'd like to lynch you rather than no lynch...but he'll no-lynch if that's the consensus -- so you've also misrepresented him by saying, in your last post, that he doesn't "seem to be considering anything other than lynching me."
Argh.
Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza
Changing my mind about you wasn't about you claiming role blocker. It was about you seeming to contradict yourself. Twice. Did you really forget this, Stewie??
I can't see any contradictions... If you mean the "last night" and me suspecting coolbot, I already explained that quite reasonably. And specially for the second one, Ygg should agree, since he not only believed in the existance of a sk, but he still does. Which brings me to another point: if he believes in the existance of a sk, shouldn't he be interested in lynching coolbot? If there's a sk, he's defenetly it. If we don't lynch him and we lynch wrong, then we would have two scum left and the only hope is pretty much having the scum killing each other. However, if we lynch coolbot, there would only be one scum, and two townies with powers, which would make it hard for the scum to win it. All this assuming we have 1 scum and one sk. Of course, I don't believe we do, so I don't think lynching coolbot is a good idea.
It's incredible that in your last post you say "if scum, she realized that she can end the game by lynching me," while totally ignoring the fact that I'm the one currently arguing hardest for no-lynch because I'm not sure.
That's why I lean towards ygg. You are considering other options a lot more than you are considering lynching me.
As for Ygg, he seems to be saying "I want to lynch stewie, but if this goes the no lynch road, I'll accept it." What I get from this is that he wants to lynch me no matter what, but he doesn't want us to think it's the only posibility for him.
This is taking way too long. If I don't hear from coolbot by tomorrow I'll vote no lynch and hope for the best.
Stewie wrote:1. I am scum
a) we lynch me. You guys win.
b) we lynch ygg. I block meme and kill her, I win.
c) we lynch meme, I block and kill ygg, I win.
d) we lynch coolbot, I have to decide between ygg and meme. If I block meme, I risk ygg killing me, and if I block ygg I can't kill either of them, assuming that meme protects ygg.
e) we go no lynch. I would have to block meme and kill coolbot, but that would mean that ygg would kill me. If I block ygg, then we are back at 4 the next day.
2. MeMe is scum
a) we lynch me. Ygg can't kill meme, and meme can kill whoever she wants, winning the game.
b) we lynch ygg. I can block meme, and coolbot and myself can lynch her the next day.
c) we lynch meme, we win.
d) we lynch coolbot. I have to choose between blocking meme or ygg. If I block ygg it's game over, but if I block meme then we still have to lynch her (although the lack of kill should be proof enough that meme is scum)
e) we go no lynch. I would not know what to do in this case, since ygg may have double kill, but if meme is scum I would not expect her to tell the truth, and she may have vigi kill also. This is a situation I would like to discuss.
3. Ygg is scum
a) we lynch me. Ygg kills and vigi kills coolbot. I suppose that's a tie, since meme can't be killed at night
b) we lynch ygg. we win
c) we lynch meme. I block ygg, the next day coolbot and myself lynch ygg and win the game.
d) we lynch coolbot. I have to decide between blocking ygg or meme. If I block meme, then ygg is able to kill either of us and therefore win the game.
e) we go no lynch. I would not know what to do in this case, since ygg may have double kill, but if meme is scum I would not expect her to tell the truth, and she may have vigi kill also. This is a situation I would like to discuss.
4. Coolbot is scum. This would mean that we have another killer on the loose.
If we lynch him, then whether we win or not would depend on how I block. It could also depend on MeMe's protection, or ygg's vigi kill, depending on who is scum.
I don't understand how you can look at Stewie's scenarios and conclude that we should lynch!
His "Stewie is scum" scenario says that town can only win if...
a) we lynch Stewie
d) we lynch CoolBot (in which Stewie's not the ONLY one who'd have to decide what to do...I'd not know who to protect and Yggdrasil'd not be sure of who to vig)
e) we no-lynch (putting us at four again, probably, but so what? We'd have more information)
His "MeMe is scum" scenario says that town can only win if...
b) we lynch Yggdrasil
c) we lynch me
d) we lynch CoolBot
e) we no-lynch
His "Yggdrasil is scum" scenario shows that town can only win if...
a) we lynch Yggdrasil
c) we lynch me
d) we lynch CoolBot
e) we no-lynch
I'll not bother with the "CoolBot is scum" scenario except to say that no-lynch would work just as well there as lynching CoolBot.
Only
two
options appears in all the "town can win if" lists: no-lynch & lynch CoolBot.
Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza
Stewie wrote:And specially for the second one, Ygg should agree, since he not only believed in the existance of a sk, but he still does. Which brings me to another point: if he believes in the existance of a sk, shouldn't he be interested in lynching coolbot? If there's a sk, he's defenetly it. If we don't lynch him and we lynch wrong, then we would have two scum left and the only hope is pretty much having the scum killing each other. However, if we lynch coolbot, there would only be one scum, and two townies with powers, which would make it hard for the scum to win it. All this assuming we have 1 scum and one sk. Of course, I don't believe we do, so I don't think lynching coolbot is a good idea.
I'm open to the possibility of a setup with two mafia and 1 SK. In this case, CoolBot cannot be the SK, because the SK is the sole remaining killer. In case this is the setup, I agree that we should go after the one killer who we know exists.
[size=75][i]"The owl of Minerva takes flight only when the shades of night are falling."[/i]
