Mini 931: Supreme Court Mafia (Game Over post 682)

[pman5595]

ok.

Vote: pwnman

• looks eager to jump on a bandwagon
• conjures up the idea that Jack copied and pasted VOTES. (?)

Also just get a general gut vibe. Seems like a new scum player.

[Netopalis]

Yeah..but I thought then and think now that it's a flimsy excuse.

[pwnman]

I put an EBWOP that said "answers not votes". I am not eager to jump on any bandwagon I was the second person to vote him with reasons.

[pman5595]

I put an EBWOP that said "answers not votes". I am not eager to jump on any bandwagon I was the second person to vote him with reasons.

Please show me that EBWOP. And the jumping on the bandwagon was you eager to just put a vote down, At least that was my gut read.

[jasonT1981]

• conjures up the idea that Jack copied and pasted VOTES. (?)

To be honest, I kinda just saw this as a typo considering Jack copying answers was a topic of discussion for a short period around the time of that post.

[pman5595]

• conjures up the idea that Jack copied and pasted VOTES. (?)

To be honest, I kinda just saw this as a typo considering Jack copying answers was a topic of discussion for a short period around the time of that post.

that isn't my main problem. My problem now is that he claims to have EBWOPed that he made a typo. but he never did.

The biggest part of the case is a gut read.

[jasonT1981]

• conjures up the idea that Jack copied and pasted VOTES. (?)

To be honest, I kinda just saw this as a typo considering Jack copying answers was a topic of discussion for a short period around the time of that post.

that isn't my main problem. My problem now is that he claims to have EBWOPed that he made a typo. but he never did.

The biggest part of the case is a gut read.

hmmm, ur right.. i did a quick Iso and nothing EBWOP

[Battousai]

Vote Count:

Jack -5- Bub Bidderskins, pwnman, jasonT1981, Netopalis, DarkLightA
pwnman -3- Fishythefish, Dry-fit, pman5595
Yosarian2 -1- Darox
Bub Bidderskins -1- Jack

Not Voting:

Yosarian2, Green Crayons

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch!

[Bub Bidderskins]

That first post was my version of the conversation starter. The fact that there was no CIA agent in the setup gave me an "out" once the starter had run it's course. Proof that it wasn't a scumslip, basically. That it was just made up.

You may or may not like the answer he gave, but I don't get why you keep acting like he never answered your question.

As Neto just said his general behavior is obstructionist, and that seems to be a real flimsy excuse. Of course, now that you mention it, the case itself is quite flimsy.

At the start of the wagon he was the obvious target, and in my mind that made starting the wagon a good way to catch opurtunistic scum who wanted a quick an easy lynch. At one point I was convinced that Jack was scum, but now I see that there are others who warrent a lynch even more. For those reasons, I'm going to

unvote

.

The ones who are most likey scum who are on the wagon are pwn and DLA. Neither of them have given any good reason for voting for him. If they were voting for him because they wanted answers, then how come they didn't ask for answers? Every one else on the wagon (neto, jason, and myself) were constantly trying to weedle answers out of him.

I think the one person off the wagon who is most likey scum is Darox. He isn't active much at all, and I didn't quite catch why he's voting for yos.

@ DLA and pwn: Why didn't you try and get jack to answer if you were voting for answers?

@ Darox: Why are you voting for Yossarian?

[Jack]

[pwnman]

Thanks for the subtance Jack.

pman5595 wrote:
jasonT1981 wrote:
pman5595 wrote:

• conjures up the idea that Jack copied and pasted VOTES. (?)


To be honest, I kinda just saw this as a typo considering Jack copying answers was a topic of discussion for a short period around the time of that post.

that isn't my main problem. My problem now is that he claims to have EBWOPed that he made a typo. but he never did.

The biggest part of the case is a gut read.



hmmm, ur right.. i did a quick Iso and nothing EBWOP

Wrong. Post 135

[Darox]

See, this is why you don't procrastinate. You write up some stuff, and then you waste time and people steal your thunder by saying it first. Oh well, I'm still going to post it because damnit I wasted a lot of time putting this off. I should just stick to snarky one liners.

---

People on the Jackwagon, in order of appearance

Bub Bidderskins, pwnman, Netopalis, jasonT1981, DarkLightA

Bub Bidderskins:

#43+44 First votes Jack because he copypasted his quiz answers from other people.
#69 Next post from Bubs he calls Jack 'so anti-town that he is unlikely to be scum' but keeps his vote on Jack until he responds to SK questions. [Ehhh...]
#91 Gives previous experience showing why he thinks Jack is town, keeps vote on to get answers. Says he will support a Jack lynch if it comes down to it, despite twice calling him town. [Don't like this] Attacks pwn & jason for being on the wagon without good reasons, despite pwn giving the same reasons as him. Only FoS's pwn, not jason. [?]
#108 Demands answers some more (After Jack has already given his answer) and provides this: "While I can see that possibly the secret service agent is the serial killer and the

lawyers are the mafia

" Never before is the possibility of lawyers being mafia mentioned by anyone. [Where did this come from?]
#125 Links fishy as Jacks scumbuddy for defending Jacks actions. Changes his opinion on Jack, saying he has 'gone far and beyond what is "normal" anti-town play.' Gives reasons as Jack refusing to answer questions (Again, after he already has) and him playing poorly. Is 100% behind Jack lynch.
#148 Defending self against fishy. Gives reasons for suspecting Jack as not giving answers and "good points that Net and others have brought up" [Pretty weak] Finally mentions if Jack is town, there must be scum on the wagon. (After both GC and myself have pointed this out) Points at pwn again, but fingers everyone who may have wagon jumped.
#149 Suggests Researcher may be a lawyer. Again suggests lawyers are scum. Implies Researcher cannot be a scum role and thus the one of the Justices or the agent may be partners with the remaining lawyer. [Seriously, where did you get this idea?]
#155 Defending self against Jack. Claims Jack never explained copypaste, despite Jack citing post numbers where he explained it fully, and calls Jack very scummy for 'dodging all the questions'. [What?] Again claims Jack hasn't really answered questions about the copypaste issue. [No really, what?] Contradicts his post in #91 by saying he wouldn't have supported a lynch on Jack at that time, does want to lynch Jack now. Explains his reasoning for calling the lawyers scum, assuming all the jurors are town [Bad assumption] and thus the lawyers are mafia and the SSA is the SK.

You're really sketchy and jumping all over the place. Can you explain why you think Jack never answered either question?

pwnman:

#49 Same as bub, votes Jack for copypaste.
#52 Explains why Jack's copypaste is suspicious with "You don't copy and paste people's answers unless you don't want to look scummy" [???]
#89 Rebukes Dry-Fits vote on him stating he was second on the wagon and that Jacks refusal to answer questions would make him join the wagon if he hadn't already.

You really need to post more often, and more substantially.

Neto:

#64 Votes right after the "Need to know basis" post.
#78 Tells Jack to explain or be lynched.
#82 Calls Jack's "need to know basis" and follow up post pure scummy. Again threatens Jack with lynching if he doesn't explain.
#85 States gaining information only benefits town while hiding it helps scum [Wrong] Concludes that Jack is hiding information, and thus is scum.
#87 Sees no reason for pro town to do what Jack has done. Questions why Jack mentioned SK in first place.
#90 Response to fishy explaining why he thinks Jack's actions are scummy. Nothing really wrong, but nothing damning either.
#100 Is worried that Jack is getting away with establishing an anti town meta to dissuade further suspicion, citing Dry-fits response considering Jack as anti-town rather than scum as evidence as this. [In Dry-fits post, he gives no real opinion on Jack at all. Kinda odd] Big bold "Answer the question" letters.
#105 Doesn't believe Jacks explanation, confirms vote.
#107 Completely misses the similarities between his quiz and Jacks "SK-Slip"
#138 Refuses to believe Jacks claims of it being a conversation starter.
#166 Wagon on Jack falls apart. Willing to switch his vote now that Jack isn't going anywhere. Gives four potential suspects (Pwnman, DLA, Bub and Darox) he may switch too.
#167 Still on Jacks case, still refusing to accept Jacks explanation.

Do you still see Jack as scummy? Would you still push for his lynch today if it came down to it?

jasonT1981:

#26 Confusion over SK statement, asking Jack to explain. (Second person after GC to do so)
#58 More asking for Jack to respond.
#66 Votes right after the "Need to know basis" post. "DIE SCUM"
#94 States if Jack has information vital to town, and doesn't share it, he'll have to be lynched in order to get said information.
#101 6 minutes after Netos big bold 'answer the question', does the same thing with a big bold 'what makes you think there is a SK'
#102 Explains that people find Jack suspicious because he acts like he has inside information on the setup.
#113 Asks a bunch of questions that have already been answered by Jack and again demands he answer them. [Seriously, why does everyone either ignore or not accept any of Jacks answers]
#120 Comes to a couple of bad conclusions. Twists Jacks statement into town benefits from all information, and thus calls Jacks "need to know basis" post as a contradiction. Based on this and his refusal to answer questions, is confident enough to say 'DIE SCUM' [Again. Pushing very hard for this lynch]
#124 Ignores Jacks explanation and attacks him some more for things he's already answered for.

I get the feeling you're not really reading posts properly. Your zeal in trying to get Jack lynched is unsettling.

DarkLightA

#39 Asking if Jack is going to explain SK comment.
#110 Quotes 'need to know basis' and implies Jack is a CIA SK. Follows up with a sad face and a vote.
#126 Confirms that he thinks Jack is CIA SK.
#130 Takes 3 of Jacks quotes that make sense and do not invalidate each other and proceeds to act like they do with no explanation given.

Needs to post more, seems to just be jumping on the wagon without thinking about it.

---

Other stuff:

Dry-Fit: Two posts. You really need to say something.

Given the Researcher role, 5 votes could be L-1 for Jack or any other player. Noone should put people on 6 votes unless they are prepared to hammer a wagon.

Read the role info. It can only be used at night, and there was no night 0, so there is no threat here. It'll only matter for days 2 and 3.

• conjures up the idea that Jack copied and pasted VOTES. (?)

To be honest, I kinda just saw this as a typo considering Jack copying answers was a topic of discussion for a short period around the time of that post.

that isn't my main problem. My problem now is that he claims to have EBWOPed that he made a typo. but he never did.

The biggest part of the case is a gut read.

Yes he did.

I'm voting for Yosarian2 because he's the only person I've played with before. And because he's cool.

[Netopalis]

Darox: At this point, I'm not planning on pushing it any further based on the limited information alone. I think he may very well still be scum,. but I know that pressing the case won't get us anywhere and I think I'll be able to prove it later after he posts more. If deadline were today and I could cast the deciding vote against any player, it would be him. That being said, I'm going to glance back through this and try to analyze a bit more on some other players; your post is excellent, by the way, and definitely nudges you town in my eyes.

[Jack]

Mafia RULES!!!!
As Mafia- 1-0

Which game was this pwnman?

[pman5595]

Since when is 2 people voting a bandwagon? I was the second person on because Jack copied and pasted votes. Even if he hadn't done that I'd still be on now with his refusal to answer questions

1) I didn't copy and paste votes
2) I haven't refused to answer question

s

, only one question.

Vote:pwnman

Fishy: Sure,

I can produce

a scummy reason for Jack's actions. First, he is deliberately being confusing. Even if he is town, he would have had no other reason to bring up the matter in the first place. He is attempting to derail the game by his cryptic responses as well. Also, he is, I think, trying to benefit from early suspicion being cleared, which often means that the player will be looked at with less suspicion later in the game. If he establishes an extremely scummy style of play now, in the late game, if he plays in a more pro-town fashion, he will look much less like scum, regardless of his actual alignment. Thus, in a sense, it can be something of a protectionist move.

So you came up with this one just now. You're making the logic fit the conclusion, then. Let's say I started (for some reason) with the conclusion that you were scum. In that light, your starting the game with the questions would be an attempt to make yourself look pro town and to control discussion early. You didn't notice my answers were copy pasted because you were scum faking suspicion on Darox. Now you think I know something about the setup that you don't, and as scum you want to know what it is, so you threaten to lynch me unless I spill the beans.

If you are town surely you can see how far astray starting with a conclusion and then finding a scum motive for someones behavior can take you.

lol. That was answers....or it shoulda been

I don't see it.

[pwnman]

Mafia RULES!!!!
As Mafia- 1-0

Which game was this pwnman?

Newbie 897.

I don't see it

I didn't put EBWOP but it was supposed to be

[pman5595]

I don't see it

I didn't put EBWOP but it was supposed to be

you never even mentioned anything about that.

[jasonT1981]

Thanks for the subtance Jack.

pman5595 wrote:
jasonT1981 wrote:
pman5595 wrote:

• conjures up the idea that Jack copied and pasted VOTES. (?)


To be honest, I kinda just saw this as a typo considering Jack copying answers was a topic of discussion for a short period around the time of that post.

that isn't my main problem. My problem now is that he claims to have EBWOPed that he made a typo. but he never did.

The biggest part of the case is a gut read.



hmmm, ur right.. i did a quick Iso and nothing EBWOP

Wrong. Post 135

Eh, I guess you are right.

[Yosarian2]

I'm glad you posted content there, Darox; I was actually going to start getting on your for lurking if you hadn't posted content by today, and I find that post really interesting. I especally like his case against Bub, and want to hear a response from Bub about it.

[Bub Bidderskins]

I'm just going to go through the quote and put my responses in bold.

See, this is why you don't procrastinate. You write up some stuff, and then you waste time and people steal your thunder by saying it first. Oh well, I'm still going to post it because damnit I wasted a lot of time putting this off. I should just stick to snarky one liners.

---

People on the Jackwagon, in order of appearance

Bub Bidderskins, pwnman, Netopalis, jasonT1981, DarkLightA

Bub Bidderskins:

#43+44 First votes Jack because he copypasted his quiz answers from other people.

Nothing wrong here.

#69 Next post from Bubs he calls Jack 'so anti-town that he is unlikely to be scum' but keeps his vote on Jack until he responds to SK questions. [Ehhh...]

I just wanted answers

#91 Gives previous experience showing why he thinks Jack is town, keeps vote on to get answers. Says he will support a Jack lynch if it comes down to it, despite twice calling him town. [Don't like this] Attacks pwn & jason for being on the wagon without good reasons, despite pwn giving the same reasons as him. Only FoS's pwn, not jason. [?]

"If it comes down to it" represents if he wasn't willing to answer the questions. Pwn was on the wagon "because you can't just copy and paste answers like that". I was on it for answers. If pwn comes back and says he wants answers, then how come he didn't ask for any?

#108 Demands answers some more (After Jack has already given his answer) and provides this: "While I can see that possibly the secret service agent is the serial killer and the

lawyers are the mafia

" Never before is the possibility of lawyers being mafia mentioned by anyone. [Where did this come from?]

The lawyers as mafia is pure speculation on my part. Just think about it. It was given to us that there are "vanilla jurors". Since jurors replace townie, it's a decent guess that the jurors are town, but, like I said, nothing but speculation on my part. As far as answering the question, I thought that it was a cheap excuse at the time, but looking back, I can see it being a decent answer. Still, why no one told me that until now (net actually said, in response to me copying his boldified thingot "Not a problem, Bub. Anything to get him to finally answer."
#125 Links fishy as Jacks scumbuddy for defending Jacks actions. Changes his opinion on Jack, saying he has 'gone far and beyond what is "normal" anti-town play.' Gives reasons as Jack refusing to answer questions (Again, after he already has) and him playing poorly. Is 100% behind Jack lynch.

The scumbuddy thing was if Jack was scum. How come people always forget about this?

#148 Defending self against fishy. Gives reasons for suspecting Jack as not giving answers and "good points that Net and others have brought up" [Pretty weak] Finally mentions if Jack is town, there must be scum on the wagon. (After both GC and myself have pointed this out) Points at pwn again, but fingers everyone who may have wagon jumped.
#149 Suggests Researcher may be a lawyer. Again suggests lawyers are scum. Implies Researcher cannot be a scum role and thus the one of the Justices or the agent may be partners with the remaining lawyer. [Seriously, where did you get this idea?]

once again, speculation

#155 Defending self against Jack. Claims Jack never explained copypaste, despite Jack citing post numbers where he explained it fully, and calls Jack very scummy for 'dodging all the questions'. [What?] Again claims Jack hasn't really answered questions about the copypaste issue. [No really, what?] Contradicts his post in #91 by saying he wouldn't have supported a lynch on Jack at that time, does want to lynch Jack now. Explains his reasoning for calling the lawyers scum, assuming all the jurors are town [Bad assumption] and thus the lawyers are mafia and the SSA is the SK.

When I said he dodged all the questions, I meant neto's questions on that quiz he produced. When did I say that I wouldn't have support a lynch? Again, all the juror/lawyer stuff is speculation.

You're really sketchy and jumping all over the place. Can you explain why you think Jack never answered either question?

Because when I asked him to answer after he answered, nobody said anything until much later, thus making me think I was on the right track.

Read the role info. It can only be used at night, and there was no night 0, so there is no threat here. It'll only matter for days 2 and 3.

Um, there was a night 0, although no killing roles could be used.

PS: I really hope all those tags work out, because it's a mess.

[Battousai]

Dry-fit has been prodded

[Darox]

Oh, you're right, there was a night 0. My bad.

---

As far as answering the question, I thought that it was a cheap excuse at the time, but looking back, I can see it being a decent answer. Still, why no one told me that until now (net actually said, in response to me copying his boldified thingot "Not a problem, Bub. Anything to get him to finally answer."

Why would you need someone else to tell you that Jacks answers were acceptable? Weren't you looking at everything he posted? He was after all, your prime focus. What made you finally decide his answers were decent?

The scumbuddy thing was if Jack was scum. How come people always forget about this?

Nobody has forgotten it. When someone says scumbuddy, it's automatically implied it's if the person they are linked to is scum. Otherwise, they couldn't be a scumbuddy, could they?

When I said he dodged all the questions, I meant neto's questions on that quiz he produced.

Why is not properly answering the quiz a scummy act? Is this the reason you have been willing to lynch Jack?

When did I say that I wouldn't have support a lynch?

Here.

I just wanted answers, and I didn't intend on carrying that forward to a lynch at that time. [Referring to post #91]

Which contradicted what you said in post 91

However, if it comes down to it I'll lynch him

Because when I asked him to answer after he answered, nobody said anything until much later, thus making me think I was on the right track.

Why were you more concerned with looking out for people dissenting with your argument rather than reading the posts of the person you are wagoning?

---

You responded to every post summary, even the ones with no questions/comments, except for #148. Why?

[Dry-fit]

I have no idea what to think of Jack.

Also, I really don't like the way Pwnman and jason jumped on the Jack wagon. Pwnman moreso.

vote: pwnman

Since when is 2 people voting a bandwagon? I was the second person on because Jack copied and pasted votes. Even if he hadn't done that I'd still be on now with his refusal to answer questions

I know why you voted for him, the way you did it just looks really opportunistic.

I have no idea what to think of Jack.

Also, I really don't like the way Pwnman and jason jumped on the Jack wagon. Pwnman moreso. vote: pwnman

If you don't know what you think of Jack, how do you have an opinion of someone who voted for something you have no opinion about? This looks like posturing to make a "good" vote.

I'm not sure what the problem is here. Pwnman's vote didn't look natural or like he was really suspicious of Jack's play. I don't need an opinion of the player being voted to see something fishy about the way a vote is placed.

I think the one person off the wagon who is most likey scum is Darox. He isn't active much at all, and I didn't quite catch why he's voting for yos.

Is there anything particularly scummy about this? His vote for Yos was a random vote.

[Fishythefish]

Content is on its way tomorrow, at which point I decide whether BB or pwnman is worse.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Oh, you're right, there was a night 0. My bad.

---

As far as answering the question, I thought that it was a cheap excuse at the time, but looking back, I can see it being a decent answer. Still, why no one told me that until now (net actually said, in response to me copying his boldified thingot "Not a problem, Bub. Anything to get him to finally answer."

Why would you need someone else to tell you that Jacks answers were acceptable?

I shouldn't and that was my mistake. However, when others said nothing, I assumed I was on the right track.

Weren't you looking at everything he posted? He was after all, your prime focus. What made you finally decide his answers were decent?

When I looked back at him in iso.

The scumbuddy thing was if Jack was scum. How come people always forget about this?

Nobody has forgotten it. When someone says scumbuddy, it's automatically implied it's if the person they are linked to is scum. Otherwise, they couldn't be a scumbuddy, could they?

Don't you understand what I'm trying to say? I was not implying that fishy was currently scum, or would be scum. I was saying that

IF

Jack was lynched and turned out to be scum, then fishy would be a likey scum-bud because of his defense of Jack.

When I said he dodged all the questions, I meant neto's questions on that quiz he produced.

Why is not properly answering the quiz a scummy act? Is this the reason you have been willing to lynch Jack?

It's part of the reason I had been willing to lynch him, and deliberatly not answering questions is scummy.

When did I say that I wouldn't have support a lynch?

Here.

I just wanted answers, and I didn't intend on carrying that forward to a lynch at that time. [Referring to post #91]

Which contradicted what you said in post 91

However, if it comes down to it I'll lynch him

In 91 I was saying that if Jack continued to fail to answer questions, then I'd be willing to lynch him, not that I was willing to lynch him at that time. Of course, this isn't new to you, seeing as I said the exact same thing in my previous post.

Because when I asked him to answer after he answered, nobody said anything until much later, thus making me think I was on the right track.

Why were you more concerned with looking out for people dissenting with your argument rather than reading the posts of the person you are wagoning?

I was reading his post, but a big, underlined "answer the question" is pretty hard to miss.

---

You responded to every post summary, even the ones with no questions/comments, except for #148. Why?

Because it's America and I can do whatever I want

Because there was nothing really for me to say. You basically outlined what I said in the post.