Newbie 922: Day 3

[RayFrost]

There is a difference.

why do you ask?

Votecount
Lawls - 2 (Elementary Fermion, Cojin)
Panacea - 1 (Lawls)
havingfitz - 1 (Acosmist)
Elementary Fermion - 1 (Independent John)
Cojin - 1 (havingfitz)

Not Voting - 1 (Panacea, RayFrost)

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch

[Panacea]

There is a difference.

why do you ask?

Because Edprada's question was specifically written around some things he'd said about his plan to sit back and observe; I know you won't do that, so there's nothing I could get from asking you to answer his.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Even if I can marginally accept this lack-of-reason business in regards to a vote, that does not extend to FoS'es. They carry very little weight when justified; they provide none whatsoever when left to the imagination. Will you elaborate on that FoS?

Panacea, you should probably be aware that there are numerous advantages to marking things without explaining including but not limited too: making memos to yourself, making memos to yourself that you can refer back on later, gauging reactions, thinking that people with a similar mindset (more likelihood of same alignment) won't need an explanation -- that's actually a huge pro-town tell for me, when someone sees something the same way I do since scum tend to think far different than town, building a silent case without alerting the person so that they do not identify their scummy behavior and you can see how they naturally react without having super suspicion, making someone feel pressured, actually making someone feel

less

pressured, subtle breadcrumbing . . . the list goes on and on.

However, this is not any one of those cases, well maybe one. I thought it was obvious what I was FOSing but I guess I'll explain. Havingfitz was completely exaggerating a preposterous idea, and the fact that it was simply a FOS rather than a vote does little to alleviate my concerns.

I was a little concerned at the buddying between Rayfrost and Panacea, but I guess they're just friends. Which reminds me:
@Panacea: do you think you are less likely to lynch RayFrost than another player ignoring all interactions that have happened in this game?
@RayFrost: do you think you are less likely to lynch Panacea than another player ignoring all interactions that have happened in this game?

@Rayfrost, don't forget about alts and reading experience, and different posting frequencies per game.

[RayFrost]

I am slightly less likely, yes.

And true about alts.

[Panacea]

Panacea, you should probably be aware that there are numerous advantages to marking things without explaining including but not limited too: making memos to yourself, making memos to yourself that you can refer back on later, gauging reactions, thinking that people with a similar mindset (more likelihood of same alignment) won't need an explanation -- that's actually a huge pro-town tell for me, when someone sees something the same way I do since scum tend to think far different than town, building a silent case without alerting the person so that they do not identify their scummy behavior and you can see how they naturally react without having super suspicion, making someone feel pressured, actually making someone feel less pressured, subtle breadcrumbing . . . the list goes on and on.

Yes, I can understand that line of thinking. My own follows the track of Kill-proof idea preservation. I want what I'm thinking now available to everyone else later without them having to decode it. You've stated your experience; if you get lynched/NK'ed and Town gets to say, Mylo and everyone's re-reading to see who would have posed the biggest threat to scum and when, more can be gotten from "I think so-and-so is scummy for

this

behavior" than from a vote that looks random but apparently isn't, or an FoS that wasn't overly clarified.

I've taken down this concept as a foundation in your play, though. For now.

@ Bridges, re Havinfitz's FoS: Oh, see, that's why I needed explanation. His FoS seems, while perhaps lacking, somewhat logical to me. Lawls is playing quite scummishly and Independent John's lack of foresight is (aside from annoying) anti-Town, to some level. I concede to your judgement of it as a tad exaggerated, though.

Even thinking as objectively as I can, I'm still somewhat less likely. Sorry. All hero-worship aside (;)), if he's Town, he's a HUGE asset. If he's not, I trust myself to notice.

[Lawls]

Lawls: How good would you consider yourself at MafiaScum?

Maybe 2 or 3 outta 10 being 3 would be generous. This site is full on posting posts that are like 1-5 paragraphs long. on my other site post maybe a 3-4 sentences thats it not even. Ill have an in depth read of the game so far and a player analysis hopefully by tomorrow

[havingfitz]

Doing a little re-reading during this slow spell.....

Panacea’s first post strikes me as a bit overly helpful. Explaining RVS and RQS was fine...but then following it up with the “Which sounds best” question seemed to be just a bit over the top. Like you were trying to determine the way the players would want to proceed before doing so.

Hello Ray. How are you?

Was there any particular reason you quoted my comments re: Panacea?

Are you scum in this game? <seriously>

Havingfitz was completely exaggerating a preposterous idea,

To what do you refer? I think I have put a few comments/ideas out there so this could refer to more than one.

@ Bridges, re Havinfitz's FoS: Oh, see, that's why I needed explanation. His FoS seems, while perhaps lacking, somewhat logical to me.

Since I’m still not clear what it is based on, how does Bridge’s FoS on me seem logical?

[Panacea]

@ Havingfitz: Sorry, I should've been clearer.

Your

FoS seems somewhat logical. I may be biased, though, as Lawls is standing out the most to me right now. I'd very much like to hear an explanation from him on the question of his time zone.

I'll be uncharacteristically unavailable for the most of the day: Driving home for Spring Break.

[havingfitz]

@ Havingfitz: Sorry, I should've been clearer.

Your

FoS seems somewhat logical.

I know you meant my FoS seemed logical...that's why I was asking you to explain why you felt it was logical.

[Acosmist]

Oh, no worries! Trust me, I know I've had a habit of being chatty. Scum from my last Townie game told me in post-game that it was part of the reason I was Nk'ed N1; I'm still working on game theory, but I know I'm useful in keeping us rolling.

There's something about this section of your post that brought an idea to my head. I'm going to take a page out of your book and ask a semi-irrelevant (semi-relevant? Fun fact: the negation of a sentence with a truth-value of .5 in fuzzy logic has a truth-value of .5) question:

Is your chattiness in this game, right now, a conscious game strategy or the simple continuation of an established posting pattern?

I may have to follow up on that idea, depending on your answer.

... Wow, you are really good..! But I'll raise you one semi-irrelevant question: you wouldn't be some type of writer now, would you?

I'd

like

to be engaged in a profession where writing is an essential part of the job, but right now, I am not a writer of any type.

Acosmist

: Do you find happiness in receiving role PMs? Were you happy when you got your role PM for this game?

I generally have not been happy to receive a role PM. This is probably an artifact of the types of games I've played and the roles I've been assigned.

I was happy to get my role this time insofar as it meant the game was starting, but not otherwise.

As for withholding reasons, I find it generates more interesting reactions to give votes without reasons early game.

I want to take this chance to trot out an analogy that I've had brewing in my head for a while. Have you ever played contract bridge? If not, I'll explain how it's relevant. Before you get to the stage where tricks are won or lost, there's an auction phase. All four players, in order, get a chance to bid, double (if the last bid was by an opponent), redouble (if the last action was a double by an opponent), or pass. Each bid must be a higher bid than the last one. The conversation at this phase is strictly limited to the words relevant to bidding. Thus, while trying to communicate with their partners, the players have a very small vocabulary from which to draw. It would be easy to say "I have the ace of hearts, the ten of hearts, and four lowers hearts, good strength in clubs, a void in spades, and scattered low cards in diamonds" and develop a good bidding strategy from that. That's against the rules, though. Further, it would reveal information to the opponents at the same time, so it might not be optimal even if it were allowed.

What has this to do with mafia? Well, by posting in this thread, you're broadcasting certain information to the public. Some of those in this public are allies, some are opponents. There has to be some agreed-upon method of communicating information if it's to be of any use. In bridge, these methods are called conventions. If my partner opens "Two hearts" and we're using the strong two-bid convention, I know he has enough in his hand, with particular strength in hearts, to win the game on his own. If I don't know what my partner means by his bids, we'll be hopelessly confused. And here I come to the point. I don't doubt you have reasons for your vote. Concealing those reasons offers the opposing side a chance to trip up trying to interpret the vote, but, just as importantly, it offers

your own teammates

a dangerous opportunity to make a play error. Consider that. If you try to box clever, you may do more harm to your win condition than to the opponents'.

Specifically, I've played with havingfitz and panacea before, not including ongoing games.

What do you think of Panacea's play, then?

Panacea, what do you think of RayFrost's?

thinking that people with a similar mindset (more likelihood of same alignment) won't need an explanation

That's an unwarranted assumption. I've seen this go awry before. In a game I read, someone nearly got lynched for speculating in a way that seemed at odds with the town's win condition. Someone called him on the error but said "No townie should explain to him why this is wrong." A bandwagon formed around an illegitimate inference and caused further play mistakes, all on the town side. This is an example of my point above.

Moving on to other things...

Panacea looks town to me, though I don't claim it as strongly as RayFrost does. In fact, Panacea strikes me as just the type of person to be taken in by a flattering "You're obv town, let's not fight" judgment. I don't have the intellect to develop this fully, but, in the interest of making the thought concrete, there it is.

[RayFrost]

Doing a little re-reading during this slow spell.....

Panacea’s first post strikes me as a bit overly helpful. Explaining RVS and RQS was fine...but then following it up with the “Which sounds best” question seemed to be just a bit over the top. Like you were trying to determine the way the players would want to proceed before doing so.

Hello Ray. How are you?

Was there any particular reason you quoted my comments re: Panacea?

Are you scum in this game? <seriously>

Hello fitz, I am doing quite well. How about you?

I quoted you and then quoted a standard intro post of my own that I do in every newbie game regardless of alignment just to show that your 'overly helpfulness is scummy' point was terribad. Why did you consider overly-helpfulness to be scummy?

And, sadly enough, I am not scum. This is sad because it means that I can't trick you lot / work with one of you for an uber awesome victory of awesome + 52

Are you scum?

[Lawls]

Rayfrost I thought you can only be in one game at a time, aren't you in game 909 also?

[Acosmist]

Rayfrost I thought you can only be in one game at a time, aren't you in game 909 also?

It bothers me that this is the one post you chose to make today.

[RayFrost]

Rayfrost I thought you can only be in one game at a time, aren't you in game 909 also?

The rule is that, if you have no completed games in mafiascum, you can only be in one newbie game at a time.

There is no real limit to the number of games you can play.

I could be in every game on this entire site and it wouldn't be breaking any rules.

However, if you haven't completed any newbie games, you are only allowed to be play in one NEWBIE game at a time. You can join any other game type to your heart's content.

Also, you need to post content.

Do so.

Soon.

[Panacea]

Sorry, y'all; I know I have some material addressed to me. I know this is inconsiderate of me, but it's late here and I have a charity event to be up for in a couple of hours. I'm really sorry for leaving you hanging tonight, and I swear to post tomorrow after it's over. I just can't seem to word any answers right now.

Good night (or good 11-ish hours, depending on where you are), and again, I apologize.

[Lawls]

Acosmist: In his first post he comes off a bit scummy imo, in saying that he dismisses mafia strategies in which he does not understand. Well what happens if these strategies can make or break the game, will you not try at least to learn them? I just find this a bit weird to start off with. The points on Pancea are valid and seem to make sense. In one of his posts he mentions that he doesn’t like receiving role pm’s, but this time was happy to receive it as the game meaning the game had started. We can only assume he is telling the truth or that he has a role that is not of just a townie. Last thing I picked up on he seems bothered by my post’s which is understandable

Andrius: Is he even still in this game? If so I’ve got nothing on him needs to post more.

BridgesAndBaloons: Is definitely into the game, and seems to jump on every little thing that he can pick out on someone. Thinks Panacea is overly helpful coming off as a scum tell, while I don’t think that she is being overly helpful she is just at the right level. ‘I'm not scum, and I haven't lied once this game.’ An answer in which he gave to a question from Panacea, I just find it to be a bit odd I’m not really sure myself why.

Cojin: As he states doesn’t have just one tactic to use in mafia games, which I find a bit interesting but still accept it. ‘I prefer town as I find it less stressing.’ An answer in which he responded to, with this answer I think we would able to tell if he was town or scum at certain points in the game. Hasn’t posted much either so I’ll leave it at that.

Elementary Fermion: First game on this site so welcome. ‘But really, in the few games that I have played, the people who talked the most and the least were scummy, or at least had some other non-vanilla role. After a lynch and a nightkill have both been consummated, I find that the true hunt can begin, based on those two actions and the responses thereto.’ One of his posts about how he hunts for scum. His vote is on me idk if it’s still classified as a random vote or not but there are people less active than me including yourself. According to the post Panacea could be mafia which I don’t see at the moment.

Havingfitz:’ Lawls...for someone with a lot of mafia experience you do not have a lot to say and you have been a bit lurky. One post a day is better than a lot of people (unfortunately) but three posts of little to no value aren't a very pro town effort. Town should be engaged in the game andd looking for scum.’ Trust me if you saw me on the other site you would be able to tell if I was mafia or not. I do tend to lurk because at the early stages of the game I have nothing on people. I can’t get too much of a read on people including you. But one thing that strikes out to me is that you seem to misinterpret my posts so far. Your FOS on Independent John I don’t like, maybe he just forgot about it all which I doubt but I don’t think that it is worth putting a FOS on for.

Independent John: Posted very little nothing on him until he can get back online.

Panacea: Doesn’t like to share the way in which she likes to play which I can understand but still think is a bit scummy as it would be good for the town to know. Like someone else mentioned someone put me at L-3 so she unvotes me and puts Elemenatary Fermion at L-3 which makes no sense at all, unless it was just a simple mistake. She recommended a RVS yet when people voted her she starts asking for reasons which just contradicts the point of a RVS. Is definitely into the game and at first seemed slightly scum in my eyes and sorta still is, but leaning more towards town.

Rayfrost: States Panacea is obv town, and that the case on her is horrible. How can you be so certain in the first day phase of a game? Scum helping out scum? Trying to get her out of the spotlight who knows. Panacea’s reaction when Rayfrost came in could be just that a normal reaction, or one that she has him as a scum buddy. Wants me to post more as well in which I am doing now

So to conclude

FOS on Rayfrost, Panacea and Havingfitz
Unvote Vote Acosmist

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Sorry guys but first and foremost I am responding to a prod, but I have and will be over the next 2 days busy with university starting again and my commitment to the frisbee club and other important societies there I will not be active but I shall try and do some reading tonight and report back asap!

You did not foresee these conflicts when you joined up?

FoS Independent John

for coordinated lurking.

[/quote]

CAUTION: I'm writing this post when I'm really tired. If there are gaping wholes in logic or in words, please forgive. I will re post this post editted tomorrow if it comes out incoherent.

Havingfitz idea is that Independent John had "coordinated lurking." Here are several reasons why this idea makes little sense:
1)It's only

two

days. Not even a noticable absence, really, yet havingfitz plays it up a lot here.
2) What would he be coordinating lurking

from?

It's not like the deadline is coming in two days or we pressured him for a claim right now. Makes no sense.
3) The idea of coordinating lurking is pretty popesterious, and implies that we all should keep in mind all possible time-conflicting things before starting the game.
4) Doesn't coordinated imply you were working with someone else? Maybe htat he
5) Lurking for two days with a real excuse isn't even scummy to begin with.

[Cojin]

Sorry guys but first and foremost I am responding to a prod, but I have and will be over the next 2 days busy with university starting again and my commitment to the frisbee club and other important societies there I will not be active but I shall try and do some reading tonight and report back asap!

You did not foresee these conflicts when you joined up?

FoS Independent John

for coordinated lurking.

CAUTION: I'm writing this post when I'm really tired. If there are gaping wholes in logic or in words, please forgive. I will re post this post editted tomorrow if it comes out incoherent.

Havingfitz idea is that Independent John had "coordinated lurking." Here are several reasons why this idea makes little sense:
1)It's only

two

days. Not even a noticable absence, really, yet havingfitz plays it up a lot here.
2) What would he be coordinating lurking

from?

It's not like the deadline is coming in two days or we pressured him for a claim right now. Makes no sense.
3) The idea of coordinating lurking is pretty popesterious, and implies that we all should keep in mind all possible time-conflicting things before starting the game.
4) Doesn't coordinated imply you were working with someone else? Maybe htat he
5) Lurking for two days with a real excuse isn't even scummy to begin with.[/quote]


What i dont understand is how he blatently ignored how much lawls was lurking yet attacked him for less.

[havingfitz]

Lawls...for someone with a lot of mafia experience you do not have a lot to say and you have been a bit lurky. One post a day is better than a lot of people (unfortunately) but three posts of little to no value aren't a very pro town effort. Town should be engaged in the game andd looking for scum.

Trust me if you saw me on the other site you would be able to tell if I was mafia or not. I do tend to lurk because at the early stages of the game I have nothing on people. I can’t get too much of a read on people including you.

But one thing that strikes out to me is that you seem to misinterpret my posts so far. Your FOS on Independent John I don’t like, maybe he just forgot about it all which I doubt but I don’t think that it is worth putting a FOS on for.

I don't think I have misinterpreted your posts...prior to this one which has a lot of thought put into it...you had very little posting or input into the game. And I did not agree with your excuse for only posting once a day. IMO being in a different timezone shouldn't be that big an impact on posting or contribution to the game/scum hunting. Like I said...this was a good post. As for the FoS...what is not to like about it? I find IJ suspicious. He has posted, iirc, fewer times than anyone and his largest post of the game was to give us reasons why he might not be posting much in the game. FYI...I don't put a lot of weight in FoS's...IMO they just let someone know they might show up a bit brighter on your scumdar. Votes are what matters.

[havingfitz]

Havingfitz idea is that Independent John had "coordinated lurking." Here are several reasons why this idea makes little sense:
1)It's only

two

days. Not even a noticable absence, really, yet havingfitz plays it up a lot here.

How did I play it up? It caught my attention so I let him know I found it suspicious. You seem to be playing it up towards me more in this post.

2) What would he be coordinating lurking

from?

It's not like the deadline is coming in two days or we pressured him for a claim right now. Makes no sense.

The deadline has nothing to do with lurking. Who said anything about a claim? Lurking is lurking and I am accusing him of it. Does that make sense?

3) The idea of coordinating lurking is pretty popesterious, and implies that we all should keep in mind all possible time-conflicting things before starting the game.

How does my comment on IJ imply every needs to keep in mind 'all possible' time conflicts. My coordinated lurking post does not imply that at all. If I am interested in playing in a Mafia game and it's a week before I'm about to have other commitments in RL that will prevent me from participating...I'm not going to participate in the Mafia game.

4) Doesn't coordinated imply you were working with someone else? Maybe htat he

WTH hell was this post supposed to mean? Also...coordinated was referring to IJ (not me), and the someone else is all of us.....who he was coordinating his absence with. Understand?

5) Lurking for two days with a real excuse isn't even scummy to begin with.

He's made three posts in the game...I don't recall what his first two were...I doubt they were much...but his third post was to explain his further lack of posting. Why are you defending him?

Responses in bold above.

[havingfitz]

What i dont understand is how he blatently ignored how much lawls was lurking yet attacked him for less.

Cojin...are you paying attention to this game? The more you post (which isn't much) the more I like my vote on you. My two posts prior to my FoS on IJ were dedicated to Lawls and my opinion of his play up to that point. How is that blatently ignoring Lawls?

[Panacea]

I know you meant my FoS seemed logical...that's why I was asking you to explain why you felt it was logical.

Simple. If your vote is tied (and I believe somewhere you mentioned being comfortable with it), then if someone else does something mildly suspicious, it makes perfect sense to keep your vote where it is and express displeasure with the

other

player via FoS.

Is your chattiness in this game, right now, a conscious game strategy or the simple continuation of an established posting pattern?

I may have to follow up on that idea, depending on your answer.

My chattiness is inherent to my personality. Boiled down, I feel the

need

to post with equal frequency regardless of my allignment, becasue either way, I feel it furthers my team's goal. I suppose in my town experience I post frequently with the goal of controlling activity. As scum, I post frequently in hopes of controlling the actual conversation. As either, I post frequently because that's just my disposition. Does this help? I'm not overly sure I've answered satisfactorily.

This is probably an artifact of the types of games I've played and the roles I've been assigned.

What types of roles were those?

@ Acosmist, re Contract Bridge: Wow... Complex. If I've understood correctly, then I think I see where you're coming from, and I definitely agree with the boxing clever statement.

Panacea, what do you think of RayFrost's [play]?

It's been my experience that many players here begin to develop a similar playstyle. But as far as my experience here extends, you will probably never find a player with RayFrost's style. He jokes around a lot (I admire the priority he assigns to all players having fun in the game), but at the same time he's actually thoroughly analyzing everything in the background. You'll see what I'm talking about if you watch. In both of our games together he identified scum within the first Day (one of them being

the

Thesp!). He's frank, doesn't care who's toes he steps on, and he notes minute details. The only problem with this is that his candor makes him an easier mislynch candidate for scum.

In fact, Panacea strikes me as just the type of person to be taken in by a flattering "You're obv town, let's not fight" judgment.

The only thing keeping me from taking offense is the fact that I know you're incorrect.

Andrius: Is he even still in this game? If so I’ve got nothing on him needs to post more.

... You're... reading this game, yeah? -.-

About Lawls's post. I don't like it for it's noncomittment. There's a disconcerting amount of agreement in it, and a lack of real stance on anyone. It seems like he's tuning into the undercurrent of our opinions, rather than offering his own. The post itself feels more like a tool for scumplay to me: as if should an arguement arise and a wagon form on one of the players, he could play it off as his having been on board the whole time. Also,

In one of his posts he mentions that he doesn’t like receiving role pm’s, but this time was happy to receive it as the game meaning the game had started. We can only assume he is telling the truth or that he has a role that is not of just a townie.

Panacea’s reaction when Rayfrost came in could be just that a normal reaction, or one that she has him as a scum buddy.

These just feel so forced, as well as deliciously unhelpful.

5) Lurking for two days with a real excuse isn't even scummy to begin with.

No. But he's at eight days now.

[havingfitz]

I know you meant my FoS seemed logical...that's why I was asking you to explain why you felt it was logical.

Simple. If your vote is tied (and I believe somewhere you mentioned being comfortable with it), then if someone else does something mildly suspicious, it makes perfect sense to keep your vote where it is and express displeasure with the

other

player via FoS.

I don't know what I was seeing when I asked you the question above. Your initial post was clear and your following response was clear also. Pardon the reading comprehension Fail.

[havingfitz]

Hello fitz, I am doing quite well. How about you?

I quoted you and then quoted a standard intro post of my own that I do in every newbie game regardless of alignment just to show that your 'overly helpfulness is scummy' point was terribad. Why did you consider overly-helpfulness to be scummy?

And, sadly enough, I am not scum. This is sad because it means that I can't trick you lot / work with one of you for an uber awesome victory of awesome + 52

Are you scum?

Fine.

I find overly helpful suspicious. If it was that big a deal she might have my vote...which she doesn't. But it still caught my attention. Last time I accused someone of of the exact same thing (being overly helpful)...they were scum.

It would be amusing to work with you as scum. We'll just have to work together to defeat scum this game.

[Acosmist]

Acosmist: In his first post he comes off a bit scummy imo, in saying that he dismisses mafia strategies in which he does not understand.

Let's go to the videotape on this one, so to speak.

I am dismissive of mafia strategies that I don't understand. I had a hard time, in my last game, understanding why I should bother random voting. I am trying to at least accept that things can be useful without my specifically understanding why they are useful.

I identified a flaw in my mafia style and relayed my attempt to improve my play in the future.

Well what happens if these strategies can make or break the game, will you not try at least to learn them?

Yes, I will try at least to learn them. That's why I said I was "trying to at least accept [them]." It's remarkable how similar the language in your post is to that in mine, which makes me think you did actually read the whole thing. Somehow, though, you came to precisely the wrong conclusion about it.

The points on Pancea are valid and seem to make sense.

Which points and what made sense about them? Why did they only "seem" to make sense?

In one of his posts he mentions that he doesn’t like receiving role pm’s, but this time was happy to receive it as the game meaning the game had started.

We have to go back to the record for this one as well.

I generally have not been happy to receive a role PM. This is probably an artifact of the types of games I've played and the roles I've been assigned.

I was happy to get my role this time insofar as it meant the game was starting, but not otherwise.

Notice that I say nothing about which roles I've been assigned in the past, so, while I point out a connection between those roles and my attitude toward role PMs, you have no basis for drawing a correlation between a certain type of role and a certain reaction. So this assumption:

We can only assume he is telling the truth or that he has a role that is not of just a townie.

is troublesome.

Last thing I picked up on he seems bothered by my post’s which is understandable

You mentioned earlier that one post a day was going to be de rigueur, then you used up that one post without commenting on relevant things. You're posting more, which is good, because, even if your interpretations are mistaken, you're engaging the thread. I look forward to the post where you make more sense and demonstrate literacy, though.

It also bothers me that you can't keep track of who is still in the game.

What i dont understand is how he blatently ignored how much lawls was lurking yet attacked him for less.

This is just false but I think havingfitz responded well to it.

My chattiness is inherent to my personality. Boiled down, I feel the

need

to post with equal frequency regardless of my allignment, becasue either way, I feel it furthers my team's goal. I suppose in my town experience I post frequently with the goal of controlling activity. As scum, I post frequently in hopes of controlling the actual conversation. As either, I post frequently because that's just my disposition. Does this help? I'm not overly sure I've answered satisfactorily.

You said your chattiness got you nightkilled early in a previous game. Does that bother you?

Your answer has helped. You're very conscious of your chattiness.

@ Acosmist, re Contract Bridge: Wow... Complex. If I've understood correctly, then I think I see where you're coming from, and I definitely agree with the boxing clever statement.

What types of roles were those?

Vanilla townie and mafia goon.

It's been my experience that many players here begin to develop a similar playstyle. But as far as my experience here extends, you will probably never find a player with RayFrost's style. He jokes around a lot (I admire the priority he assigns to all players having fun in the game), but at the same time he's actually thoroughly analyzing everything in the background. You'll see what I'm talking about if you watch. In both of our games together he identified scum within the first Day (one of them being

the

Thesp!). He's frank, doesn't care who's toes he steps on, and he notes minute details. The only problem with this is that his candor makes him an easier mislynch candidate for scum.

The Thesp? How long has he been playing here? I've recently been reading games of his on another site from...5 years ago.

Have you only played with RayFrost when he was town? Your post seems to analyze him as largely a town asset, his only flaw being that scum mislynch him. Can you envision him as mafia, and what problems this would cause? I'd like to know how you'd evaluate him in that role.

The only thing keeping me from taking offense is the fact that I know you're incorrect.

The truth value of that statement will be apparent in the fullness of time.

About Lawls's post. I don't like it for it's noncomittment. There's a disconcerting amount of agreement in it, and a lack of real stance on anyone. It seems like he's tuning into the undercurrent of our opinions, rather than offering his own.

This expresses well much of my reaction to that post.

The post itself feels more like a tool for scumplay to me: as if should an arguement arise and a wagon form on one of the players, he could play it off as his having been on board the whole time.

Disagree. He just sounds overwhelmed by the game. You pointed out how he isn't paying enough attention to know who's in it or not; is there a pro-scum angle to that move?

These just feel so forced, as well as deliciously unhelpful.

"Could be" and "can be" are some of the weakest qualifiers on claims, and he went and weakened them further by applying them to disjunctions. I definitely agree that the statements are nearly trivial in their unhelpfulness.

Onto other things...

Lawls: How is Panacea's play in this game consistent with her play in other games?