Getting someone modkilled

[Zang]

I take responsibility for my actions in the aforementioned game and I apologize to all involved who I ruined that gaming experience for. However, due to the fact that Sir Cyanide so obviously has no remorse for his actions and the fact that he is proud of himself, that means he plans on doing this again. I would go as far as to say that SC is purposefully attempting to ruin the gaming experiences of others like myself by his rude, abrasive, uncalled for and malicious flaming behavior. It's obviously up to each individual mod how they should take this information. But I would like to see a site wide blacklisting on Sir Cyanide, or at least a site wide enforcement or change in the rules in regards to improper conduct in a Mafia game so that if Sir Cyanide were to try this tactic again, he would be modkilled and blacklisted immediately.

I just want to ensure the proper prevention of this kind of play in the future so that SC, myself or anyone else involved in these kinds of activities can be heavily forbidden from purposefully ruining the experience for other Mafia players.

I think that a site wide ban is pretty harsh, he did something wrong but he believed that it was ok(even if he Is proud of it). I think we should go with your second option for a change in rules regarding this matter and if he does it again then banning him should be considered.

[Ythill]

Not sure if I agree with Ythill saying people shouldn't ban him for being sexist.

I didn't say they shouldn't. I'd just rather not play in a game run by someone who makes rulings based on personal beliefs, even if I agree with them. Didn't mean to sound so harsh though.

If it were deemed that I was not fit for Mafia...

LOL. Sometimes I wonder if there

should

be a psychological exam. It gets easier. You just have to realize that you're going to be badgered and accused of things you didn't do. It's as much a part of mafia as tackling is a part of football. Having a thick skin is part of the skillset that makes a good player. Not that I'm excusing inappropriate play, but there's plenty of perfectly appropriate play that would probably have you frothing at the mouth.

I'd argue that 'deliberately going out to ruin someone's gameplay experience until they completely lose it, therefore misusing a mechanism designed for extreme circumstances to stop games breaking down as a gameplay tool' is a non-arbitrary gameplay problem.

LOL. Read what I was responding to and then stop strawmanning. He was blacklisted for out-of-game mysogony.

I disagree with being selective like this actually. I think modkills should only ever be used to punish something which is completely outside of the spirit of the game. Therefore, if you yourself are playing within the spirit of the game I think this definitely also entails not encouraging others to play "outside of the spirit of the game" in order to get them modkilled.

I think you misunderstand me. I didn't do anything to encourage his behavior, and he'd definately crossed the line all by himself, including wishing physical harm on me in a graphic way. Where I differentiated was in registering the official complaints that got the mod involved. I wouldn't have done that without being pretty certain he was scum because, even though his behavior had broken the rules, it didn't offend me so much that I was willing to lose a townie over it.

[ortolan]

The same problem arises. Modkills should only be used to punish something heinous. I don't think you should feel that whether or not to attempt to precipitate a modkill is a matter of discretion over whether or not you think someone is town.

[sirdanilot]

I haven't read all the thread so this is in answer of the fiirst page discussion.

There's a difference between reporting rule violations to the mod, and trying to get someone mod killed. It's okay to point out rule-breaking posts, BUT IT SHOULD BE DONE IN PM. I've had episodes of people doing this out in the open, and if I were the mod I would not tolerate such things.

Badgering of players depends on how you do it. If you simply keep saying someone is scum, that's not against the rules (its just a gameplay technique). If you keep saying someone sucks etc. it's obviously against the rules yourself.

I really don't see how one would go about getting someone modkilled in a fashion that will not modkill that player himself (unless through completely acceptable methods described above). Therefore I cannot agree or disagree with such behaviour.

[ortolan]

not having read the relevant thread (cbf) I would assume either the rules were very explicit about what sort of personal attacks would get one modkilled and Cyanide did stuff that was obnoxious but not against the rules, or Cyanide was skirting the rules himself in "provoking the modkill".

[sirdanilot]

That's the reason that patch-up rules like 'don't be an ass' are so useful. In this case bad modding might be more of an issue than the OP's behaviour, but before accusing anyone I would need to read the thread.

[Ectomancer]

I take responsibility for my actions in the aforementioned game and I apologize to all involved who I ruined that gaming experience for. However, due to the fact that Sir Cyanide so obviously has no remorse for his actions and the fact that he is proud of himself, that means he plans on doing this again. I would go as far as to say that SC is purposefully attempting to ruin the gaming experiences of others like myself by his rude, abrasive, uncalled for and malicious flaming behavior. It's obviously up to each individual mod how they should take this information. But I would like to see a site wide blacklisting on Sir Cyanide, or at least a site wide enforcement or change in the rules in regards to improper conduct in a Mafia game so that if Sir Cyanide were to try this tactic again, he would be modkilled and blacklisted immediately.

I just want to ensure the proper prevention of this kind of play in the future so that SC, myself or anyone else involved in these kinds of activities can be heavily forbidden from purposefully ruining the experience for other Mafia players.

I think that a site wide ban is pretty harsh, he did something wrong but he believed that it was ok(even if he Is proud of it). I think we should go with your second option for a change in rules regarding this matter and if he does it again then banning him should be considered.

There are no rules to be changed. That type of behavior is not for this site.
What was missing in this instance was an interpretation of events that would have resulted in the correct player being modkilled. Mods are not infallible. In addition, while you sit comfortably in your Monday Morning Quarterback armchair, having the player in question come to you and directly tell you that he abused a player on purpose to exploit a game mechanic, the Mod in question didn't have such a handy cheat sheet when he made his decision. In addition, many mods try to be as hands off as possible in the games, and so I could see many of them letting things flow.
If there is a lesson or change to be made, it would be that the Mod should occasionally nudge the conversation back to civility if things are getting out of hand, rather than waiting until a site rule has been broken to modkill someone.

[Mr. Flay]

ITT people comment w/o reading the game in question, then defend SC.

Ythill, it's not JUST out-of-game misogyny, and I think that's a perfectly valid criterion for player exclusion. It's not like he's shown he can differentiate between in-game and out-of-game behavior...

[DocPotter]

Without chasing it up and reading, just going from your description of events, I would liken it to trolling.

[Ectomancer]

Like this:

Replacing someone's name with "chode" when you quote them really isn't necessary. Please try to be a bit more considerate in the future.

Thanks.

[sirdanilot]

I read the player in question and honestly all he's saying is 'you're stupid'. This should have been met by an official mod warning. I haven't read the other player in question (TQO or something).

not AT ALL worthy of a site ban. but that's just my opinion I suppose.

[Jack]

I read the player in question and honestly

all he's saying is 'you're stupid'

. This should have been met by an official mod warning. I haven't read the other player in question (TQO or something).

not AT ALL worthy of a site ban. but that's just my opinion I suppose.

I don't appreciate you calling me stupid, and insinuating that I am not capable of playing this game and should replace out.

I do not care about your feelings. If I hurt them, please get some testosterone injections and watch all Rocky movies in a row. Then come back and see if you feel different, sissy.

So I will ask you again, lay off and play the game. If you continue to insult me and show a lack of respect for this game I will PM the mod and have you warned for your actions.

Cry more please.

[sirdanilot]

As I said the moderator should have stepped up since that is not playing in the spirit of this game. I missed the posts you quoted by the way...

[SIR CYANIDE]

ROFL at this topic. I brought it to this subforum to get opinions on it to see if it is generally morally accepted, if it was not I'd surely change it (don't know where you people get the idea that I wouldn't, I didn't bring it to this subforum for no reason you know ) - I expressed my opinions on the matter at hand, went to bed and when I woke up I saw 5 pages of grossly bullshit that I got bukkaked with.

Loving all the blacklistings btw, basically this summarizes it:



And if you can't handle some misogyny posted in jest (it's not like I'm 'obvious sexist' as some have misinterpreted ) I wonder what you are doing on the internet.

In that game TQO exhibited certain obvious personality traits which can be very detrimental to whatever alignment he's on. I'm a psychiatrist (and in 1.5 years, hopefully a lawyer as well) so it is fairly easy for me to identify these traits and make use of them to increase my chances of winning. Apparently, all of you feel the need to protect the 'weaker' persons on this site and act as parents. IMO they don't need to be protected, but fine, whatever, if that's a common ethical rule I will no longer probe emotionally unstable players (who shouldn't be here to begin with, it is like taking a 4yo to a knife museum - it is possible for the kid to walk around without getting hurt through intensive protection, but it shouldn't be there in the first place).

[SIR CYANIDE]

Also I missed this:

It wasn't for lulz, he did it as it gave his side a free kill. The person he did it to has been modkilled in 3 games and replaced out of 2 games in their six games, it was clearly a targeted deliberate move.

This. I did not want to mentally hurt TQO in any way, I have nothing against him and I'm sure he is a pretty cool guy that don't afraid of anything in real life, but I noticed that he reacted to certain things like this and it seemed to contribute to my win condition to try and get him modkilled.

[SlySly]

Thinking back on it, I agree. I would have had both players replaced, not modkilled.

Modkills should be reserved for when somebody destroys the integrity of the game as a whole, like here.

Your definition of 'integrity of the game' is a very loose one.

[SIR CYANIDE]

Also, @TQO:

If I normally feel I can't take the heat and start getting offended then I replace out when I can.

This was also why I quickly taunted you with 'please replace out' 'you should replace' blahblah, because you disliked me in that game you will automatically try to do the opposite. I did that so that I could push you towards being modkilled without you replacing out due to pressure, so it was not entirely your fault that you let yourself get modkilled before replacing out don't feel too bad.

[Phate]

Thinking back on it, I agree. I would have had both players replaced, not modkilled.

Modkills should be reserved for when somebody destroys the integrity of the game as a whole, like here.

Your definition of 'integrity of the game' is a very loose one.

I believe he means integrity as in 'to preserve the integrity of the empire' rather than integrity as in honesty.

[evilsnail]

And if you can't handle some misogyny posted in jest (it's not like I'm 'obvious sexist' as some have misinterpreted ) I wonder what you are doing on the internet.

Comments posted in jest are supposed to be funny. Otherwise, it's indistinguishable from actual sexism.

Getting someone modkilled is like getting someone to cheat. It's exactly the same, to my mind, as pushing someone to discuss the game outside the thread or post their role PM. Sure, it's largely their own responsibility, but you too should be held accountable. The only difference is that it's harder to quantify your culpability when it comes to emotional responses.

I think the blacklisting is a bit of an overreaction, though. I played in a newbie game with SC and he was perfectly civil. If he can play like that, I don't see a reason to keep him out of a game. That said, his comments in this thread and in the game discussed would definitely trigger a modkill+blacklisting in one of my games (like his responses to Maemuki).

[Thok]

To SIR CYANIDE, if I am ever in a game with you, and you ever insult anybody, I'm going to lynch you for meta reasons. Not because I dislike you, but because you have convinced me that an insult from you is a strong scum tell.

[MagnaofIllusion]

To SIR CYANIDE, if I am ever in a game with you, and you ever insult anybody, I'm going to lynch you for meta reasons. Not because I dislike you, but because you have convinced me that an insult from you is a strong scum tell.

QFT

[iamausername]

ROFL at this topic. I brought it to this subforum to get opinions on it to see if it is generally morally accepted, if it was not I'd surely change it (don't know where you people get the idea that I wouldn't, I didn't bring it to this subforum for no reason you know ) - I expressed my opinions on the matter at hand, went to bed and when I woke up I saw 5 pages of grossly bullshit that I got bukkaked with.

Loving all the blacklistings btw, basically this summarizes it:



And if you can't handle some misogyny posted in jest (it's not like I'm 'obvious sexist' as some have misinterpreted ) I wonder what you are doing on the internet.

In that game TQO exhibited certain obvious personality traits which can be very detrimental to whatever alignment he's on. I'm a psychiatrist (and in 1.5 years, hopefully a lawyer as well) so it is fairly easy for me to identify these traits and make use of them to increase my chances of winning. Apparently, all of you feel the need to protect the 'weaker' persons on this site and act as parents. IMO they don't need to be protected, but fine, whatever, if that's a common ethical rule I will no longer probe emotionally unstable players (who shouldn't be here to begin with, it is like taking a 4yo to a knife museum - it is possible for the kid to walk around without getting hurt through intensive protection, but it shouldn't be there in the first place).

[SIR CYANIDE]

To SIR CYANIDE, if I am ever in a game with you, and you ever insult anybody, I'm going to lynch you for meta reasons. Not because I dislike you, but because you have convinced me that an insult from you is a strong scum tell.

Then you might end up being very wrong.

[SIR CYANIDE]

ROFL at this topic. I brought it to this subforum to get opinions on it to see if it is generally morally accepted, if it was not I'd surely change it (don't know where you people get the idea that I wouldn't, I didn't bring it to this subforum for no reason you know ) - I expressed my opinions on the matter at hand, went to bed and when I woke up I saw 5 pages of grossly bullshit that I got bukkaked with.

Loving all the blacklistings btw, basically this summarizes it:

http://i41.tinypic.com/15grwp2.jpg

And if you can't handle some misogyny posted in jest (it's not like I'm 'obvious sexist' as some have misinterpreted ) I wonder what you are doing on the internet.

In that game TQO exhibited certain obvious personality traits which can be very detrimental to whatever alignment he's on. I'm a psychiatrist (and in 1.5 years, hopefully a lawyer as well) so it is fairly easy for me to identify these traits and make use of them to increase my chances of winning. Apparently, all of you feel the need to protect the 'weaker' persons on this site and act as parents. IMO they don't need to be protected, but fine, whatever, if that's a common ethical rule I will no longer probe emotionally unstable players (who shouldn't be here to begin with, it is like taking a 4yo to a knife museum - it is possible for the kid to walk around without getting hurt through intensive protection, but it shouldn't be there in the first place).

Regardz,

_.-

*^?

SIR CYANIDE

?^*

-._

[Thok]

To SIR CYANIDE, if I am ever in a game with you, and you ever insult anybody, I'm going to lynch you for meta reasons. Not because I dislike you, but because you have convinced me that an insult from you is a strong scum tell.

Then you might end up being very wrong.

I'm willing to take that risk.

Edit: To be more specific, you haven't shown me in the games that I've read that you are particularly good at scum-hunting, certainly not enough that I'd want to deal with the distraction your insults would cause.

You have shown me that you are good at using insults and distractions to avid being lynched when you are scum.