926 A Game of Thrones Mafia - Over.

[Raivann]

*Oops, Not PeanutButter I meant BulletProof

[Kinetic]

unvote

No, it isn't raiv. I'm unvoting for another reason right now though.

[MacavityLock]

3-MacavityLock said that Inq wouldn't make sense as a Mafia kill. But I think that only applies to a two-faction game. If there's an SK, he should be trying to kill the Mafia so that they can't outnumber him in endgame and win by strength of numbers. And if there are two Mafia families, they should be attacking each other so as to stop crosskills. On D1, Inq was a low-lying player (could have been scum trying to dodge a nightkill), not under any suspicion, playing rather safe, showing flashes of potential...If someone was trying to take out the other scumteam, I'd say Inq wouldn't be a bad choice. (Of course, that doesn't preclude Inquisition actually

being

a BP member of the other scumteam.)

MacavityLock, do you think any of these theories are plausible?

So, here's my problem. If Inq is scum, BP is more commonly a SK perk than a maf perk. This is not always the case, but that's the perspective I'm starting from. A maf, which I'm assuming does not include Inq, is not likely to know that there's a second scum faction. So, I would think that a maf would want to either hunt a "quality" townie, or a possible power role. The way I read Day 1, Inq does not seem to fit.

Now, if we take away my assumption that Inq-scum is necessarily a SK, then this goes out the window. The kill on Inq could have come from a SK trying to kill a maf. 2 maf families is not something I considered in my assessment, but it's possible that it could also fit.

But then he mentioned that his PM had a list for abilities. Which you replied to by saying that bulletproof players didn't have other abilities.

Firstly, could you explain just what you disliked about Inquisition's phrasing, and just what "didn't seem right"--with actual quotes? Because in that post, what you state in your own words is that "bulletproof townies don't usually have additional abilities." In other words, you find it suspicious that Inq claimed to have abilities other than being bulletproof. But now you're saying you

do

think it's likely that Inq has extra abilities--only you just didn't like Inquisition's phrasing. It "didn't seem right." This is a pretty strange contradiction.

After re-reading the sequence of events from those questions, I'm going to chalk this up to a misread. When I read Inq's explanation about the flavor of the claim, I thought he was saying that bulletproof was listed in his flavor, but

not

as an ability, and thus was confused as to why he had additional abilities.

Yes, I have a vote, and it's listed under

Abilities

, which can be seen in the provided vanilla PM.

I want Inq to answer my question before I decide whether or not to vote for him, but if deadline was right now, I'd be voting him.

----

There's a difference between stepping up your game because you just have more to say, and stepping up because you're under pressure. In the latter case, I seen that just as often, if not more often with scum.

What about not stepping up your game at all ?

Who are you digging at here? Also, what's the point of said dig?

I'm kinda suspicious of the players who are voting him actually.

Why?

[Raivann]

Who are you digging at here? Also, what's the point of said dig?

I give you a hint. It starts with Butt and ends with men.

Did you know that besides his first post he has only voted once and here is his case...

Vote: Heilo

, cause deadline is hells of soon.

I'm kinda suspicious of the players who are voting him actually.

Why?

Not quite sure yet. Mainly just because I know scum would love to lynch a bulletproof townie.

Do you believe Buttonmen's claim?

[Locke Lamora]

Inq, if we could return to this for the moment:

The thing about nameclaiming is that while I don't think it'll help us decide alignment, it may well out power roles. I find it far more likely that Faraday has given major characters power roles and more minor ones vanilla than I do that we can guess anything about alignment from a name claim. Obviously outing power roles is negative at this point.

I know you've explained how you went from this to your later stance, but what was your thought process during this original post? Your own role must surely have a heavy influence on this kind of setup-based speculation, so what was it about your role that made you concerned in the first place? If you weren't concerned, was this a deliberate ploy in any way?

[Faraday]

Day 2.5 vote-count. The

'Give me sweet lies, and keep your bitter truths.

'

votecount.

Seacore (1) [The Inquisition]
The Inquisition (1) [Seacore]
Bogre (2) [Mina, Raivann]

Not voting:

(6) [Locke Lamora,Bogre, TheButtonMen, MacavityLock, Flutter, Kinetic]

No one is due for prodding to my knowledge, feel free to ask if you want someone prodded though.
Deadline: March 20th @ 6pm GMT

Inquisition's V/La is noted.
I'll be V/La for a week or so, don't worry I'll manage at least a votecount a day.

[Bogre]

Bogre: so you think all of those things Seacore has done are scummy, or just bad town play? As far as I can tell, most of those objections are against things that you think are unhelpful for the town. For example, you don't indicate that you think claiming VT is scummy, just that it reduces the scum's NK pool for PRs. I'm not sure whether you're driving at Seacore being a bad townie or scum deliberately trying to damage the town.

Bad play, mostly. This is relevant to town members, who should realize that and take it into account, instead of letting bad play lead to mislynches. I am not convinced it is malicious scum play.

[TheButtonmen]

Posting this here setting myself a deadline so i stop procrastinating; will catch up and post within 16 hours.

[Raivann]

Bogre shows absolutely no interest in lynching scum, neither does Buttonmen.

Moar Bogre votes please.

[Locke Lamora]

Kinetic: as you haven't elaborated, I have to ask: are you deliberately being mysterious or can you tell us why you've unvoted?

I'm inclined to agree with Raivann on the above. It's nice of Bogre to give Seacore some advice on how to be a better townie but I think this might be filler in place of scumhunting. Scumhunting itself seems to have been absent since we started the nameclaim.

Vote: Bogre

[Kinetic]

Kinetic: as you haven't elaborated, I have to ask: are you deliberately being mysterious or can you tell us why you've unvoted?

I'm pretty sure if I elaborated that I'd be mod-killed. For now I'm thinking it over, but I don't think I can explain.

[TheButtonmen]

ISOing MacavityLock I noticed a trend; he doesn't discusse in thread things. By that I mean his posts range in topic from peoples previous games, set up speculation, PR speculation and so on. He goes out of his way to avoid saying anything concrete about what people have said in the thread.

In regards to the Inq. claim I don't really have anything to add; I can think of a variety of reasons to claim BP for any possible faction, so at the moment it seems a nulltell, though I do find his timing odd. Why did he feel it was so important that the town to know theres 2 kills out there? Its not like we are at LyLo and don't know it, it was the start of D2.

More to come in the morning.

[TheButtonmen]

One closing thing that I noticed;

I'm inclined to agree with Raivann on the above. It's nice of Bogre to give Seacore some advice on how to be a better townie but I think this might be filler in place of scumhunting.

Scumhunting itself seems to have been absent since we started the nameclaim.

Vote: Bogre

This struck me as a odd reason for Locketo hop on the wagon as Raiv was refrencing this post:

Bogre: so you think all of those things Seacore has done are scummy, or just bad town play? As far as I can tell, most of those objections are against things that you think are unhelpful for the town. For example, you don't indicate that you think claiming VT is scummy, just that it reduces the scum's NK pool for PRs. I'm not sure whether you're driving at Seacore being a bad townie or scum deliberately trying to damage the town.

Bad play, mostly. This is relevant to town members, who should realize that and take it into account, instead of letting bad play lead to mislynches. I am not convinced it is malicious scum play.

[Locke Lamora]

Sorry, why is that odd? I asked Bogre whether he was actually making a case on Seacore or just pointing out bad townie play. He said he was pointing out bad townie play. As it was one of the most substantial things he's said for a long time and yet isn't really making any kind of case, I was inclined to think that it's just filler. Raivann pointed this out and I agree.

[Seacore]

I'll join the Bogre wagon.

unvote. Vote Bogre

[Faraday]

Day 2.6 vote-count. The

'I'm sick!

'

votecount.

Seacore (1) [The Inquisition]
Bogre (4) [Mina, Raivann, Locke Lamora, Seacore]

Not voting:

(5) [Bogre, TheButtonMen, MacavityLock, Flutter, Kinetic]

No one is due for prodding to my knowledge, feel free to ask if you want someone prodded though.
Deadline: March 20th @ 6pm GMT

Inquisition's V/La is noted, as has flutter's. I'll send a prod out to Mina as it's been wednesday since she posted edit: oops forgot it's the weekend:oops:
I'll be V/La for a week or so, don't worry I'll manage at least a votecount a day.

[Mina]

Today I'm going to spam the thread a bit to catch up.

think BP is a role more likely to be given to scum than town

Why?

On the site I usually play at, BP townies are actually fairly common, but SKs are always--I mean ALWAYS--fully BP. For some reason, I was under the impression that town-aligned bulletproof players were much rarer on mafiascum. I know that I've never seen one, whereas I've skimmed through a couple of multifaction games (can't remember which ones--did Vi mod it?) in which each faction had a member with one or two shots of NK protection. I suppose it's a role that makes a lot of sense to give to scum in a multifaction setting, because a scum death harms his faction more than a townie death does. Also, I tend to associate doctors and jailkeepers with town and BP with scum. (Not saying it's impossible that Inq is a BP townie, just that I'm paranoid about claimed BP players.)

I may be mistaken, though, since I don't know the site's meta that well.

Bogre: so you think all of those things Seacore has done are scummy, or just bad town play? As far as I can tell, most of those objections are against things that you think are unhelpful for the town. For example, you don't indicate that you think claiming VT is scummy, just that it reduces the scum's NK pool for PRs. I'm not sure whether you're driving at Seacore being a bad townie or scum deliberately trying to damage the town.

Bad play, mostly. This is relevant to town members, who should realize that and take it into account, instead of letting bad play lead to mislynches. I am not convinced it is malicious scum play.

Interesting.

Let me quote your post on Seacore:

I dislike the early claim of VT from Seacore, especially as he was willing to ascribe Heilo's D1 actions as scummy and not VI play. Claiming VT out of the blue essentially loses a big chance on helping the town- soaking up a NK instead of a power role. Adding to that is the possible scumslip, the 'I'll be the top suspect if Heil comes up scum' comments, and speculation that the Starks are probably all good and other role-name related judgements. In a game like this, as its been stated, mods can guard against nameclaim breaking by making 'good' characters part of the mafia. (or by giving safeclaims).

Wow, I can certainly see where you're selflessly helping us stave off a mislynch. Sure, you explain why Seacore's claim is bad play, but not once do you say we shouldn't lynch him as a result. You say you "dislike" it--then follow it with a list of scummy things Seacore has done all game. Clearly, the implication is that you suspect Seacore. Particularly with this point:

especially as he was willing to ascribe Heilo's D1 actions as scummy and not VI play

So you're implying that his bad play is hypocritical, because he called Heliograph scummy. You never say that you don't find it malicious.

In a game like this, as its been stated, mods can guard against nameclaim breaking by making 'good' characters part of the mafia. (or by giving safeclaims).

I didn't notice this before, but if that's your opinion on nameclaims, then why did you vote Yay?

So Bogre, who do you actually

suspect

?

And would you mind answering my case on you? Or does someone need to put you to L-1 first?

[Kinetic]

Bog seems to be heavily suspected right now, but he wasn't ever really high on my own suspect list. Since he's under threat of lynch though I'll read through him and give some feedback before a decision is made.

[Raivann]

I don't have much to add except that I'm liking Bogre lynch more and more.I'm pretty confident we're going to hit scum.

[Mina]

Catching up with posts I meant to write days ago.

All this reading means I could wall-of-text horrendously, but I don't really have the energy, nor do I know what people want to hear from me. Consequently, ask me about anything you like, and I'll answer... Kindly don't ask me to explain too much about my predecessor's behavior, though.

First of all, I didn't get a chance to say this before, but welcome to the game, Flutter.

But please don't hold back the walls of text on our account. It doesn't matter what people "want to hear from you." On the contrary, I'd like more information so I can get a better read on you.

Particularly the point about the real cop claim. I think whoever is the real cop (if not Buttonmen) should claim. We'll get a Night 1 result on top of a 1:1 trade (assuming there's no Doc and also assuming we lynch the right one of the two claimers - likely Buttonmen) I think scum wouldn't recommend such a claim. Conversley, I think there must be a kind of cop role in this game, so if nobody does step forward, I think that makes Buttonmen safe.

I loathe this kind of reasoning. It's fishing, for one. And for two, we don't know enough to say that there wouldn't be multiple investigative roles.

I know this was addressed to Seacore, but since he was agreeing with a point

I

made, I may as well answer this.

Are you seriously saying a cop shouldn't counterclaim a claimed cop?

I'd expect only one investigative role, but fine. If the cop is limited, giving the town a tracker or watcher would make sense--particularly if there really are two killing factions. So I agree that a roleclaim from just any investigative role might be reckless. (Claiming in order to share investigative results rather than risk being NK'd and losing our chance to lynch scum? Maybe, particularly if it would nail a guilty, but it really depends on the situation. Definitely not just to throw doubt on Button's claim.)

But do you believe the town would have two players with the role "cop"?

The reason I think a non-Buttonmen cop should reveal today is because (aside from his risk of a NK) the later he waits, the more likely people are to doubt his claim and think it's a gambit.

MacavityLock is very...

safe

. Vote on Mina at beginning of D1, vote for buttonmen, pushing on Inq a bit now. This is potentially scummy, and I barely noticed him on first read (despite his post count!), except for his opposition to the nameclaim.

I'll take Mina's question about suspicions other than Seacore and Inq as a general question, since it's an interesting one. For me, MacLock and Bogre, for more-or-less similar reasons. A fair amount of follow-the-leader from both. Granted, I'm replaced in for a lurker and not exactly wall-of-texting myself, but we'll get there, no doubt.

Thank you for that. Now if only everyone else answered it. <_<

That's actually a pretty good point on MacavityLock. I remember disliking his first vote on me (the one in which he went out of his way to explain that this wasn't anything serious, but there wasn't anything better worth voting on so early in the game) but dismissing it as a nulltell because it was Page One. But it's true that he seems to go with the flow quite a bit. I should ISO MacavityLock to see if I agree with your and Buttonmen's assessments of him. (Imagine if Button and I actually agreed on something!) Because I have a weakness for writing off reasonable players as town and tunneling on the VI types.

MacavityLock, who do you suspect other than The Inquisition? I don't think you've really done much today other than try to disprove Inq's claim. Also, do you still suspect TheButtonmen?

Locke Lamora's last post makes me feel better about him, despite his extremely low D1 profile--basically, iso 14 was his only majorly content-ful post previous to this.

Could you explain what in particular made you feel better about him?

(Locke is...weird. He just pops up every couple of days with an insightful question or two. It's not that he's done anything suspicious I can outright pin down as scummy--I just find him really passive and under-the-radar. He's another player I need to ISO.)

[Raivann]

I'll take Mina's question about suspicions other than Seacore and Inq as a general question, since it's an interesting one.

I am thinking a Bogre, Kinetic scumteam.

Howdy guys.

Vote: Kinetic

Nameclaiming suggestion, and the voting me for being the last to confirm. I confirmed after I read my role PM. I find it strange that you are 'getting annoyed' by that. What is your reasoning that last to confirm is over 50% likely to be scum?

With this being a little RVS distancing ploy.

[MacavityLock]

MacavityLock, who do you suspect other than The Inquisition? I don't think you've really done much today other than try to disprove Inq's claim. Also, do you still suspect TheButtonmen?

I definitely see the Bogre dislike, given the about face on the nameclaim, as well as the fact that he's done nothing today. Has he said that he suspects anyone yet?

Definitely still suspicious of Buttonmen, but his claim is in the realm of believability.

Rai keeps doing little things that I find strange. For example,

I am thinking a Bogre, Kinetic scumteam.

Why Kinetic?

----

ISOing MacavityLock I noticed a trend; he doesn't discusse in thread things. By that I mean his posts range in topic from peoples previous games, set up speculation, PR speculation and so on. He goes out of his way to avoid saying anything concrete about what people have said in the thread.

Feel free to check my day 1, specifically in regards to questioning you, to disabuse yourself of this notion.

[TheButtonmen]

ISOing MacavityLock I noticed a trend; he doesn't discusse in thread things. By that I mean his posts range in topic from peoples previous games, set up speculation, PR speculation and so on. He goes out of his way to avoid saying anything concrete about what people have said in the thread.

Feel free to check my day 1, specifically in regards to questioning you, to disabuse yourself of this notion.

I did, other people were attacking me based on things I said and who I voted, you on the other hand just talked about the proper usage of FoS.

[MacavityLock]

ISOing MacavityLock I noticed a trend; he doesn't discusse in thread things. By that I mean his posts range in topic from peoples previous games, set up speculation, PR speculation and so on. He goes out of his way to avoid saying anything concrete about what people have said in the thread.

Feel free to check my day 1, specifically in regards to questioning you, to disabuse yourself of this notion.

I did, other people were attacking me based on things I said and who I voted, you on the other hand just talked about the proper usage of FoS.

The FoS is something you said and did, as is the vote, and I was questioning why you did these things.

If you like, I can give you an example game where I identified scum based on a FoS (actually a HoS, the stronger "Hand of Suspicion").

[Locke Lamora]

Buttonmen: you haven't explained why my earlier post was odd.

Mac: so you 'see' the Bogre dislike - does that mean you back his wagon, or do you simply understand the position of those on it without actually agreeing with them?

Feeling good about a Bogre lynch right now. Would be nice if he got on with posting some definitive suspects, though.