Open 212--Hard Boiled Mafia (Game Over)

[semioldguy]

It looked to me as though you were content sitting there as you took several posts after the non-discussion about the topic was established in continuing to do essentially the same thing.

[Ythan]

Making sure the reasoning for my vote was clear, even if I couldn't go into the intimate details.

[chauchaudotcom]

Ythan - Even if there is a chance he's lying in one of the games, I still fail to see how this is a scum tell.

I don't like how the Mysterious Mystery Man wagon is growing so quickly. Already three votes, and Evilsnail outing suspicions towards Mysterious Mystery Man. I'd say there's a good chance on of those last three is scum (Semioldguy's vote was a random vote).

How exactly is the bandwagon growing quickly? If semioldguy's vote was random there is only Frost and Bio on MMM. And other then snail (who didn't even vote MMM mind you) I don't see anyone else jumping the gun.

And I'm obv town.

What? How are you obv town?

It is distracting because you are drawing attention onto yourself.

And that's scummy...how? I'm a bit confused. Don't scum want to stay out of the limelight? So how is them being distracting scummy?

I'm not saying that chatting is good or bad, but it's what everyone seems to be doing. The fact that BH and RF are not is suspicious.

Why is the desire to move out of RVS into the actual game scummy? Isn't the point of scum hunting to pressure your suspects for reactions?

[Ythan]

You fail to see how lying is a scum tell?

For the obv town comment use context. It was plainly a joke. Context.

[evilsnail]

Vote: Ythan

[Mindgamer]

Mysterious Mystery Man
I'm not saying that chatting is good or bad, but it's what everyone seems to be doing. The fact that BH and RF are not is suspicious.

So a good townie should conform to what everyone is doing?

Semioldguy
Making a case against a player even partially based upon another ongoing game is poor play as RayFrost wouldn't even be able to defend himself without discussing that game. You apparent insistence to continue using this line of thought even after your warning is scummy to me because it is a dead end as people can't really comment on it. Look elsewhere or come up with a case based upon this game.

I agree that Ythan's case is unfair. However, I'm not sure why you would call it scummy. No one is going to follow Ythan based on secret information in an ongoing game. What advantage would scum have in persisting a chanceless case? It looks more like poor play to me.

Ythan
Your whole basis is that he would be unable to defend himself and you don't even address the content once.

Discussing the content of an ongoing game will result in a modkill. Are you trying to pull a 'SIR CYANIDE'?

Ythan
I am looking, actually. I know my reputation precedes me but don't expect me to find every scum in five pages, k?

Hmm... I call sentences like these a strong scumtell. And I'm willing to vote for it.

Unvote. Vote: Ythan

Chauchaudotcom
How exactly is the bandwagon growing quickly? If semioldguy's vote was random there is only Frost and Bio on MMM. And other then snail (who didn't even vote MMM mind you) I don't see anyone else jumping the gun.

It doesn't matter if Semioldguy's vote was random. Fact is he was on the wagon. I think 3½ votes are enough to say that a wagon is growing rapidly.

Evilsnail
Vote: Ythan

No reason at all? Quite scummy. I'd like to know your reason for voting Ythan, and I'd also like to know why you chose not to include the reason in your post.

[evilsnail]

Seemed fun.

I'm voting Ythan because I don't like either of his votes. His RayFrost vote was a real stretch and his OMGUS vote of semioldguy was also off.

[Bio Hazard]

Unvote

Vote: Mindgamer

[Mindgamer]

Unvote

Vote: Mindgamer

[chauchaudotcom]

Snail - Earlier you voiced that you felt you were agreeing w/ frost and bio about MMM being scum. Yet you never voted him and now you're pursuing Ythan. Are your suspicions for MMM still there? Why didn't you pursue them further w/ a vote or questioning?

Hmm... I call sentences like these a strong scumtell. And I'm willing to vote for it.

How in the world is this a strong scum tell?

It doesn't matter if Semioldguy's vote was random. Fact is he was on the wagon. I think 3½ votes are enough to say that a wagon is growing rapidly.

So if you were so suspicious of the wagon why are you voting someone not on the wagon?

Unvote
Vote: Mindgamer

Omfg people. REASONS dammit, REASONS!

[farside22]

Making a serious vote this quickly will likely cause either one of two things: I am lynched, or you are lynched. Either way, it's not a smart move for town, the exception being of course, if I am scum.

Do you know Bio's alignment somehow?

Mindgamer: Both MMM and rayfrost has the same number of votes why are you commenting just about MMM wagon?

ythan: How do you expect a player to address something that you find scummy do to an ongoing game?

Somewhere between lynch all liars and there's a roughly 50% chance this is the thread he's lying in.

I really feel like going to the mod in the other game and letting him know your using an ongoing game to lynch a player in this game. It's just tacky and frankly you leave a bad taste in my mouth as a player right now.

Bio: What is you view on ythan using what he call "meta" to form a case on ray?

MMM said:

It is distracting because you are drawing attention onto yourself.

And????

Bio and evil what is with these votes and not comments?

unvote:
vote: MMM

me think someone knows too much for a day 1

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ RayFrost: So far, my play has been less serious than yours. I don't see what the number of posts has to do with it, I'm not lurking.

@ Ythan: Your reasoning for RayFrost is suspect, it's a bad idea to base votes for one game on a game that hasn't finished. You don't know what his role is. He made a remark about how he is good as scum, what does that matter? It doesn't look scummy to me.

@ Bio Hazard: Why did you vote for Mindgamer? How did he become more scummy than me?

@ farside22: The purpose of that quote was to show how BH's actions are illogical as town, but make sense as scum.

[Ythan]

Vote: Ythan

Reasoning is tech.

Discussing the content of an ongoing game will result in a modkill. Are you trying to pull a 'SIR CYANIDE'?

I'm hoping that by the end of this post you will have finally come to understand that I'm not trying to spark discussion on this topic. I have my information and I can damn well use it to support my own vote, whether or not I'm allowed to share it with you. I have this on my clipboard if I need to paste it into a few more replies.

Hmm... I call sentences like these a strong scumtell. And I'm willing to vote for it.

Reasoning is tech. You lack it, and also context.

No reason at all? Quite scummy. I'd like to know your reason for voting Ythan, and I'd also like to know why you chose not to include the reason in your post.

You think yours is better just because it has a meaningless, fake reason?

ythan: How do you expect a player to address something that you find scummy do to an ongoing game?

I. Do. Not. It might not seem fair that he's not allowed to defend himself but on the bright side I'm not allowed to push it. You get that it is information that I have and can use myself?

I really feel like going to the mod in the other game and letting him know your using an ongoing game to lynch a player in this game. It's just tacky and frankly you leave a bad taste in my mouth as a player right now.

There's no reason for this. I'm not breaking any rules, I'm just using my own knowledge to influence my play. The only difference is that I am not allowed to speak about it openly. But, again again again, that doesn't mean I have to block it out of my own mind. I don't see what you're so worried about unless you honestly think that the town is going to lynch him over my hearsay.

@ Ythan: Your reasoning for RayFrost is suspect, it's a bad idea to base votes for one game on a game that hasn't finished. You don't know what his role is. He made a remark about how he is good as scum, what does that matter? It doesn't look scummy to me.

A vote is better than no vote to me. Show me a better case and my vote will follow it. For right now I'm putting it where I please.

[evilsnail]

Snail - Earlier you voiced that you felt you were agreeing w/ frost and bio about MMM being scum. Yet you never voted him and now you're pursuing Ythan. Are your suspicions for MMM still there? Why didn't you pursue them further w/ a vote or questioning?

I'm still suspicious of MMM. My feelings about that haven't changed. I didn't add a vote, because it didn't seem very productive. There was enough pressure on him already and I'm not sure yet that his actions so far merit a lynch.

Vote: Ythan

Reasoning is tech.

It's right there, like two posts down from that one.

[Ythan]

Acceptable.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@evilsnail: I'm not even close to being lynched. Why exactly do you find me scummy?

[semioldguy]

I agree that Ythan's case is unfair. However, I'm not sure why you would call it scummy. No one is going to follow Ythan based on secret information in an ongoing game. What advantage would scum have in persisting a chanceless case? It looks more like poor play to me.

I didn't call his case scummy. In fact, I used the same words you used, that it was poor play. What is scummy to me is his continuance of taking that stance while not doing anything else after it has been established that it cannot be discussed.

[Ythan]

And then I said more or less "We're on page five."

Not much different now that we're on page six. You point out something to which you think I should have responded and we'll talk.

[RayFrost]

@ RayFrost: So far, my play has been less serious than yours. I don't see what the number of posts has to do with it, I'm not lurking.

I was proving that your 'omfg, Ray is scummy for not chatting' point was complete BS considering that I've posted more than you have (aka, I've chatted more).

[RayFrost]

By the by, chauchau's new avatar isn't as cool as her old one.

[Bio Hazard]

Sorry I didn't explain my vote from before; I didn't have time to put together a proper post at the time.

First off, this:

I don't like how the Mysterious Mystery Man wagon is growing so quickly. Already three votes, and Evilsnail outing suspicions towards Mysterious Mystery Man. I'd say there's a good chance on of those last three is scum (Semioldguy's vote was a random vote).

He criticizes the MMM wagon and calls someone on it scum, while not really saying why.

It's also hypocritical that you said this and then threw down the third vote in a quickly growing Ythan wagon.

Making a serious vote this quickly will likely cause either one of two things: I am lynched, or you are lynched. Either way, it's not a smart move for town, the exception being of course, if I am scum.

Farside is right that this implies scum knowledge.

Either I react badly, which is distracting, and get lynched, causing yourself to be lynched D2 when I flip town, or I react well, and the same thing happens to you.

Who said I'll be lynched should you flip town? And if you reacted well, I would've dropped your case by now.

Why exactly do you find me scummy?

I know this question wasn't directed at me, but I want to answer it anyway:
1. You shot down mindgamer's question about random votes on page 1.
2. You OMGUSed when bandwagoned.
3. Your posts imply that you know I'm town.
4. You strawmaned a few posts ago.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ Bio Hazard:

1. I don't know why Mindgamer asked that question, I was hoping to find out why he singled those two out. I don't think it was limiting discussion in any way.

2. An OMGUS in RVS? Gee, I must be scum. It wasn't RVS, it was a case of either voting you or voting RayFrost. I wanted to try and move out of RVS, and voting based on your weak reasoning seemed like a good start.

3. My posts do nothing of the sort, that statement was to illustrate that your motives were illogical if you were town.

4. I don't see the strawman.

[Bio Hazard]

1. I don't know why Mindgamer asked that question, I was hoping to find out why he singled those two out. I don't think it was limiting discussion in any way.

I think it was a valid question. Those two were the only ones whose first post only contained a vote.

2. An OMGUS in RVS? Gee, I must be scum. It wasn't RVS, it was a case of either voting you or voting RayFrost. I wanted to try and move out of RVS, and voting based on your weak reasoning seemed like a good start.

First off, we were already out of the RVS by the time you OMGUSed. Second off, of course it's weak, it's the second page. Also, you didn't give "weak reasoning" as your reason for your vote for me; you gave "for trying to build a case on me in RVS."

3. My posts do nothing of the sort, that statement was to illustrate that your motives were illogical if you were town.

Yes, because it's completely illogical for a townie to scumhunt.

4. I don't see the strawman.

It's here

@ Bio Hazard: It is scummy because it is distracting to me.

The defence of 'scum wouldn't do that in RVS' is WIFOM.

Making a serious vote this quickly will likely cause either one of two things: I am lynched, or you are lynched. Either way, it's not a smart move for town, the exception being of course, if I am scum. Do you really think I'm scum based on this paltry evidence?

I never tried to make this defense.

Why did I ever take my vote off you?

Unvote
Vote: MMM

[Deer]

Hi, everyone, sorry it's taken me so long to make a post. Let me reread and see what I come up with.

[Jeffcole1]

Vote Count 1.6:

Mysterious Mystery Man (3): Bio Hazard, farside22, RayFrost
Ythan (3): evilsnail, mindgamer, semioldguy
semioldguy (2): ksun482, Ythan
Bio Hazard (1): Mysterious Mystery Man
ksun482 (1): ortolan
RayFrost (1): chauchaudotcom

Not Voting (1): Deer

Apparently, Deer was having trouble posting in the thread, but I see that's been taken care of while I was making this post.

Also, this talk about the ongoing Mini 934 is getting out of hand. I'm in communication with that game's mod, Col. Cathart, and we've decided than Ythan will be forcibly replaced for violating Rule 9.

I'm locking the thread while I look for a replacement (sorry, Deer). I'll unlock it again once I've found one, and then I'll extend the deadline based on how long it takes.

On second thought, I'm going to keep the thread open so the rest of you can keep playing. Ythan is no longer allowed to post in this thread. If he wants to dispute my decision, he can send me a PM.