Stars Aligned II - Game Over!

[rewq455]

Wait... I didn't think the plan was for everyone to gain an insanity intentionally, just that if we do gain an insanity to choose aversion and refer to the list as an additional source to eliminate pairings.

That's actually a better idea, as scum would only be only able to go so long without revealing their insanities. It takes away to disadvatage of scum being able to hide behind this, and eventually everyone's likely going to get an insanity one way or another. If we do this, we'll be using the old grave robbing plan then.

I think that this would work better than the other plan. This would not only help catch cultists, but murderers also.

[vikingfan]

I agree.

Is there anything else before we hammer and end the day?

[Plum]

I dunno, I kinda like everyone gaining an insanity. If we hit the jackpot we catch two scumbags and if we don't we eliminate a good few pairings. I guess that in the short term scum will be able to get away with a Ritual/Stalk/Murder Insanity, but in the long term, really, they'll be gaining more Insanities anyway. It's not a proportional things where if everyone gets an Insanity tonight it throws everything off; Forensic Investigations and such would still work.

Mmmm. All right, maybe I'm missing something and maybe I'm not, but if y'all like Semi's version that's okay, too. I don't think it's better, but it's still distinctly advantageous. I've nothing else to say that needs saying Today, in that case.

I am excited to come back from V/LA and have a title, and I'm going to limit my open basking in it to this.

[Percy]

Vote Count

SlySly - 9 (Plum, DrippingGoofball, iLord, VP Baltar, Chaco, vikingfan, dramonic, evilsnail, semioldguy)

kunkstar7 - 1 (elvis_knits)
dramonic - 1 (Ellibereth)
Wickedestjr - 1 (Hayker)
Hayker - 1 (rewq455)
VP Baltar - 1 (Wickedestjr)

Not Voting

- 4 (animorpherv1, kunkstar7, Magua, SlySly)

Deadline for today is

10:00pm (site time) on Saturday the 27th of March

. You can view a countdown to the deadline

here

.

Ellibereth's V/LA is noted. Activity check again tomorrow.

With 18 alive, 10 votes are required to lynch.

[Wickedestjr]

It seems that you guys have brought up a plan for night actions after skimming the last few pages. What's the plan and what should I be doing tonight?

[Wickedestjr]

Why should I take the time to give a reason when a vote to further pressure him and advance his wagon will suffice?

Because, aside from joining the wagon you didn't do anything! If you really wanted to advance his wagon, why not try and convince people not on the wagon to join it. I don't see why you couldn't have at least stated which reasons you agreed with or what people had convinced you.

I'm a busy person and while I'm more than happy to get talkative when neccessary to make a lynch happen, this game is moving plenty quick and clogging it with repeated reasoning or insignificant points isn't going to help anything and gives people an excuse to lurk.

Firstly, what excuse are you using? You claim you are busy, and you claim that you don't want to clog the thread with repeated reasoning.

Secondly, I don't believe either of those excuses. Being busy shouldn't be a problem. If you have the time to post as much as you are, then I find it extremely hard to believe that you don't have the time to post 2 or 3 more sentences explaining why you find Nicodemus suspicious. Also, as for the other excuse, same thing. If you think posting 2/3 extra sentences is going to make the thread much worse to read, then I definitely don't agree.

What is noteworthy about it? In fact, you haven't even explained it as far as I can tell.

There are two things that seem different about your playing here as opposed to games I have played with you in the past. The first thing is that you seem to be less serious in this game than you were in Mafia 96 and Mafia 104. The second thing is that unlilke in Mafia 96 and Mafia 104, you seemed to have been playing from the sidelines. In Mafia 96, you were the one that brought up the case against Mastin which ended up getting him lynched. In Mafia 104, you and Amished made a case against Exalt and tried to lynch him. In this game, you don't seem to have brought hardly anything new to the table and have been playing from the sidelines which is scummy.

Well, I haven't given too much thought as to what the optimal cult strategy is, but my guess is that crafting fetishes, passing them and carrying out the ritual are pretty high priority as opposed to blocking wards.

This is debatable, but my point is that just because you claim to have warded night 0, even if you are telling the truth it doesn't mean you are town.

[iLord]

It seems that you guys have brought up a plan for night actions after skimming the last few pages. What's the plan and what should I be doing tonight?

If you're planning on getting an Insanity tonight, get aversion to VP Baltar.

[Wickedestjr]

I would like to hear people's thoughts on VP.

[elvis_knits]

Eh, well, wicked... personally I wasn't suspicious of VP very much at all. Some of the things you are saying, like he's not leading the town as much as you have seen him lead... *might* be true. I can sort of see what you're saying. I have seen VP run a town (when he's town) and he's a powerful force. And I think he might be sitting back a little this game, now that you bring it up. But I don't know how huge the difference is.

I have thought VP is town, but I know I can be wrong, so if you see something you think is scummy, I think it should be discussed. However, he is claiming 0 insanities, which is verifiable. If he has 0 insanities, he isn't a murderer, and it's unlikely he is cult. Possible, but unlikely.

That's my take on it.

[iLord]

I would like to hear people's thoughts on VP.

Behaviorally, I see no scumtells. I have a gut feeling he's scum, but I was wrong about Sajin, so eh.

We'll see eventually, but for now I no longer have him in my confirmed category. Warding N0 is not as guaranteed townie as I had initially considered.

[VP Baltar]

@wicked - I really get sick of these burden of proficiency arguments being brought up in games where I intentionally don't take a leading role. The last time I saw someone use this, they were scum and it turned into a very annoying and drawn out argument.

My main response to it is 1) see my sig. Frankly, I don't have a lot of time to play mafia right now because I'm very busy at work lately and lack the time to put in lots of reading. 2) Games where I go full on scumhunting and start really pushing people around usually result in me dying very quickly.

Because, aside from joining the wagon you didn't do anything! If you really wanted to advance his wagon, why not try and convince people not on the wagon to join it. I don't see why you couldn't have at least stated which reasons you agreed with or what people had convinced you.

Why did I need to? Not stating reasons can actually put a lot more pressure on a player. I think my vote did just fine and whether you believe it was effective or not on the Nico wagon, I think it was.

Secondly, I don't believe either of those excuses. Being busy shouldn't be a problem.

You're right, RL doesn't take priority over an online forum game. Further, your "state one or two sentences" argument would have changed what exactly? I'm staying up on this thread, but if I don't need to get in a quote war with a scum I'm not going to. If I don't have anything new to add, repeating others is equally useless.

There are two things that seem different about your playing here as opposed to games I have played with you in the past. The first thing is that you seem to be less serious in this game than you were in Mafia 96 and Mafia 104. The second thing is that unlilke in Mafia 96 and Mafia 104, you seemed to have been playing from the sidelines. In Mafia 96, you were the one that brought up the case against Mastin which ended up getting him lynched. In Mafia 104, you and Amished made a case against Exalt and tried to lynch him. In this game, you don't seem to have brought hardly anything new to the table and have been playing from the sidelines which is scummy.

Problem numero uno is that you don't have a scum meta of me. I assure you I'm plenty active as scum. Do your research.

Second, every game requires a different touch. Mafia 96 definitely needed someone to come in and kick ass because the town was extremely clueless when I replaced in. Same for Mafia 104 to a lesser extent, though I don't think you can even cite that game since I was playing in a hydra there.

This is debatable, but my point is that just because you claim to have warded night 0, even if you are telling the truth it doesn't mean you are town.

And what is the real benefit for scum to take that action? What gain would I have garnered by claiming to Ward? Do you think I was trying to get a mislynch?

[iLord]

My main response to it is 1) see my sig. Frankly, I don't have a lot of time to play mafia right now because I'm very busy at work lately and lack the time to put in lots of reading. 2) Games where I go full on scumhunting and start really pushing people around usually result in me dying very quickly.

Ironically, 1) would be very nicely solved if the end result of 2) became true .

And what is the real benefit for scum to take that action? What gain would I have garnered by claiming to Ward? Do you think I was trying to get a mislynch?

I for one can say that you warding gave you a lot of town cred in my eyes.

[VP Baltar]

My main response to it is 1) see my sig. Frankly, I don't have a lot of time to play mafia right now because I'm very busy at work lately and lack the time to put in lots of reading. 2) Games where I go full on scumhunting and start really pushing people around usually result in me dying very quickly.

Ironically, 1) would be very nicely solved if the end result of 2) became true .

And what is the real benefit for scum to take that action? What gain would I have garnered by claiming to Ward? Do you think I was trying to get a mislynch?

I for one can say that you warding gave you a lot of town cred in my eyes.

1) I think me staying alive in this game is a net benefit to the town at this time.

2) I suppose. I doubt it would be any sort of long term benefit though.

[iLord]

1) I think me staying alive in this game is a net benefit to the town at this time.

It was a joke. I was just saying that ironically, if you got killed for pushing too hard, you could dedicate more time for work.

[VP Baltar]

lol, god I'm slow.

[vikingfan]

My main response to it is 1) see my sig. Frankly, I don't have a lot of time to play mafia right now because I'm very busy at work lately and lack the time to put in lots of reading. 2) Games where I go full on scumhunting and start really pushing people around usually result in me dying very quickly.

Ironically, 1) would be very nicely solved if the end result of 2) became true .

And what is the real benefit for scum to take that action? What gain would I have garnered by claiming to Ward? Do you think I was trying to get a mislynch?

I for one can say that you warding gave you a lot of town cred in my eyes.

What I'm realizing more and more this game is that going after cult and going after murderers are two VERY DIFFERENT skillsets.

Going after cult is like going after mafia really. They know who each other and one can use interaction with each other as a good barometer of who is scum and who is not (as we did to catch Nico and presumably culty scum CSL). The trouble is, using insanities to catch cult is useless since only 1/3 of them have to do the ritual each night and they can keep using the same people until the insane ones die. Occult books, forensic tools, and insanities are also useless on those who stay at 0 insanities (which is why the avolition insanity works so well, it's the one insanity that we can actually check for cultists).

Going after murderers is the opposite. We can't use interaction with others to trap them...the only ones who know who they are are Percy and themselves. However, going after them using occult books, forensic tools, and insanities will work because they will be stalking and killing as much as possible to win as soon as they can.

Suffice to say, in this game, nobody will ever be 100% cleared town until death (ani is probably as close as we can get due to the 3 IFs). However, classifying players as 'probably not cult' or 'probably not murderer' will work decently.

[elvis_knits]

I think this day is ready to go to night.

It seems the plana are...

1)AVERSION PLAN

IF you get an insanity tonight, you MUST take aversion to the person below you on this list:

VP Baltar
semioldguy
dramonic
Magua
DrippingGoofball
Ellibereth
evilsnail
rewq455
animorpherv1
Chaco
vikingfan
elvis_knits
Plum
Hayker
iLord
kunkstar7
Wickedestjr

I believe we are NOT forcing everyone to gain an insanity.

2)GRAVEROBBING PLAN

Elli robs Iec + Katy
Kunk robs Katy + Phate
DGB robs Phate + Start
Dramonic robs Sly + CSL

---

Anything to add?

If not, I will be hammering later today.

[elvis_knits]

Or maybe we are forcing everyone to gain an insanity?

It seems like we have a better shot at catching cult if we force everyone. Because let's say that only two cultists are near each other. The one above the other cultists will not do the ritual, will not claim any insanities, and we won't know shit.

However, we could do something like... only take aversion if you get an insanity tonight... and tomorrow night, any remainin people are forced to rob grave and get insanity? That way we would eventually catch the cultists.

I dunno. Maybe better to force people to take insanities tonight.

I'm torn.

Nobody hammer until we decide.

[semioldguy]

VP seems likely town to me. He was in the middle of the cluster of actions on night zero which would be hard to fabricate without another fabricated claim helping him out.

[animorpherv1]

VP seems likely town to me. He was in the middle of the cluster of actions on night zero which would be hard to fabricate without another fabricated claim helping him out.

2, since I would have to fake stalking, AND Wicked would have to fake ward VP.

[SlySly]

YAWN...

Plan is flawed. Too many scum and murderers getting free passes this day.

[semioldguy]

It is possible for some of those actions to happen by chance.

For instance: If VP Baltar and wickedestjr were buddies, wickedestjr (eventually) claiming to ward VP Baltar would not require additional coordination from you, it could have been a nice side effect.

[SlySly]

1)AVERSION PLAN

IF you get an insanity tonight, you MUST take aversion to the person below you on this list:

VP Baltar
semioldguy
dramonic
Magua
DrippingGoofball
Ellibereth
evilsnail
rewq455
animorpherv1
Chaco
vikingfan
elvis_knits
Plum
Hayker
iLord
kunkstar7
Wickedestjr

I believe we are NOT forcing everyone to gain an insanity.

Just another gamebreaker plan being pushed by non-town. Gamebreakers have ruined this game. Scum and murderers are on my wagon, believe that, don't rely on a stupid plan to figure it out. Analysis is key to winning this game, not the hairbrained ideas being pushed by murderers and seemingly supported by scum. Just because they act in support doesn't mean they are.

[elvis_knits]

Okay so let's force everyone to take an insanity.

[SlySly]

Okay so let's force everyone to take an insanity.

You are better than this EK. You are on the wrong track. Scum tells are screaming out and everyone just ignoring them focusing on the gamebreakers. That's exactly what the gamebreakers want.