ZOMBIES! - Zombies take over for the win!!!

[Yosarian2]

As long as we're on the subject, my other quibble with you is that you're spending most of day 1 questioning other people about their suspicions rather than stating your own. I would expect town-Yos to be leading the charge much more than that.

I'm pretty sure I did "lead the charge" on day 1; it feels to me like I started and lead the McGriddle wagon. I mean, i was wrong, but I certainly don't think you can say I wasn't "stating my own suspicions" or whatever.

[ODDin]

Yos, just so you know, it's not "almost the end of D2", as deadline is 28th, not 21st.

[farside22]

"You weren't very nice Mrs. Henderson, but I'm sorry you're dead."
- Timmy, Fido (2006)

Pie_is_good (1) Wolframnhart
Albert R (1) xRECKONERx
bv310 (1) ODDin
iLord (2) evilsnail, manho
evilsnail (1) Starbuck
Reckoner (2) Albert B. Rampage, CooLDoG
Wolf (1) elvis_knits
cooldog (1) Pie_is_good
McSuave (1) Yosarian2

not voting:

iLord
animorpherv1
MrSuave
Nobody Special
CryMeARiver
bv310
Diamondilium

With 18 players it takes 10 to lynch
Deadline is Sunday March 28th, 10:00am PST

[Pie_is_good]

Yos: I guess what I'm trying to say is that you come across as deliberately noncommittal in your day 1 posting (I'm through about your post 30). You spent awhile questioning KMD without taking a stance one way or another on his suspicions, your attack on McGriddle reads like glorified lurker-lynching (a lot of it is "you won't catch up?

Really?

You assumed X?

Really?

"). Then you go back to noncommittal questioning. Protowners are bound to take a stand one way or another, piss a few people off, and link themselves to other people or their ideas. You did absolutely none of that, and you're a good enough player that I think that's probably deliberate.

But my offer stands: I'm happy to temporarily put this aside if you want to lynch manho with me.

[elvis_knits]

When I read the little of this game I read, I thought Yos's early "jokes" came off a little forced. He tried to get support for some wagon (cooldog?) by quoting himself and being like "I agree with Yosarian2" and "Yos makes a really good point there." Which seemed weird to be becuase hardly anyone else was joking around, they were all talking about the sample PM thing which Yos studiously ignored. Jokes>content=scummy

Let's wagon him!

vote Yos

[elvis_knits]

Do I ave to unvote?

unvote; vote yos

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote, vote McSuave

I have some thoughts about Yosarian I will post in due time, right now I'm taking a break.

[Yosarian2]

Yos: I guess what I'm trying to say is that you come across as deliberately noncommittal in your day 1 posting (I'm through about your post 30). You spent awhile questioning KMD without taking a stance one way or another on his suspicions, your attack on McGriddle reads like glorified lurker-lynching (a lot of it is "you won't catch up?

Really?

You assumed X?

Really?

").

Don't speak ill of lurker lynching in my presence.

This wasn't a lurker lynch, though. Basically, if someone is acting in an anti-town way, I try to pressure them to act in a more pro-town way; and if someone is acting in such a way as to make them completly impossible to read, I try to force them to respond or react in some kind of way that makes them more readable so I can figure out their alignment (usually some combination of questions, pressure, and other kinds of prodding to try to get inside their head and find out what they are thinking). With McGriddle, it was a little of both; I was both trying to pressure him to act in a more pro-town way, and since he was acting in a way as to make himself unreadable (in his case, by not refusing to read the game), I was trying to put him in a corner and force him to react to me, hopefully in such a way as to make it possible for me to at least guess at his alignment. I did manage to get reactions from him; I judged them as reactions that scum would be more likely to make then town, so I then pushed for his lynch, while still questioning him.

I was in the process of doing something similar with tate when you replaced him (again, both trying to pressure him to act in a more pro-town way, and trying to make him react to me in such a way as to make it more possible to read his alignment).

OTOH, I also poked and prodded at cooldog a few times this game, and the way he reacted has calmed my suspicions about him a bit, at least for now.

Then you go back to noncommittal questioning. Protowners are bound to take a stand one way or another, piss a few people off, and link themselves to other people or their ideas. You did absolutely none of that, and you're a good enough player that I think that's probably deliberate.

I didn't piss people off? I don't think McGriddle would have agreed with that assessment, heh.

But my offer stands: I'm happy to temporarily put this aside if you want to lynch manho with me.

(shrug) Sure, I'd be happy with a manho lynch.

[Yosarian2]

When I read the little of this game I read, I thought Yos's early "jokes" came off a little forced. He tried to get support for some wagon (cooldog?) by quoting himself and being like "I agree with Yosarian2" and "Yos makes a really good point there." Which seemed weird to be becuase hardly anyone else was joking around, they were all talking about the sample PM thing which Yos studiously ignored. Jokes>content=scummy

...jokes are scummy?

Yes, I was joking. I was also trying to start off the game doing something weird in order to try and get some kind of reaction out of Cooldog, because having played with him in the past, I've found him hard to read; last time I played with him .

I would have run with it longer, but then someone started saying "Hey, does Yos have a post restriction?" at which point I dropped the whole thing rather then risking people getting really confused and potentially screwing with the day.

Also, I like having fun in the early game and being silly when I'm in the mood, I don't believe it's anti-town, and I'm going to keep having fun in the early game even if people think it's scummy to make jokes. So thhhpppptt.

[iLord]

Manho's posts came off as forced, bv's not so much.

I don't find lurking scummy. It hurts the town, but in my experience lurkers aren't scum any more than average. That said, I do make a point to scale scumminess by posting frequency (e.g. I would count a strike against manho much more seriously than a strike against ABR, since manho has many fewer posts). Point being, my suspicion of manho has nothing to do with his active lurking. It has to do with his posting, scaled upwards by his lack of posting.

I can be a bit more solid in my case against manho if you'd like, but I wasn't planning on spending the time on that until someone else expressed interest in stringing him up.

Okay, that's cool.

I don't remember why I suspected manho yesterday, I'll have to look back. I don't see the Yos wagon.

[iLord]

manho, two questions:

1) Why do

you

think referring to the sample role PM is scummy.

2) How is my read of McG similar to your own?

[elvis_knits]

When I read the little of this game I read, I thought Yos's early "jokes" came off a little forced. He tried to get support for some wagon (cooldog?) by quoting himself and being like "I agree with Yosarian2" and "Yos makes a really good point there." Which seemed weird to be becuase hardly anyone else was joking around, they were all talking about the sample PM thing which Yos studiously ignored. Jokes>content=scummy

...jokes are scummy?

Not what I said. Jokes aren't scummy. Jokes without content elsewhere are scummy. Jokey, randomish votes when people seem to be making serious votes = scumym.

Yes, I was joking. I was also trying to start off the game doing something weird in order to try and get some kind of reaction out of Cooldog, because having played with him in the past, I've found him hard to read; last time I played with him .

I call BS. Check page 2. You moved your vote after people thought your jokes were weird, and unvoted CoolDog before he even posted. THat's not going to get any reaction from him is it?

[CooLDoG]

@starbuck, I didn't attack you and don't need post info. Also my vote is not on personal attacks or anything of that nature. My vote is on responding bad under press, and lurking. I don't count lurking by it self as a scum tell, however lurking right after a wagon starts is a bit scummy to me.

@yos, I miss-spoke, does that make what I said less scumy?

[Pie_is_good]

Yos: Here are the early-game McG attacks you made that

don't

seem to me to be lurkerlynching:

You said that you hadn't read the game. I asked you why. (Ok, I said "weren't willing to" instead of "hadn't", but there had clearly been pleanty of time to read it if you had been willing to.) You responded by FOSing me and acting like I misrepresented you.

So, there are only two scum in the game now, huh?

[calling him out on a slip]

Am I missing anything? That's literally 2 lines of accusatory text (both of which I find unconvincing and a bit below Yos), and it hardly strikes me as championing the McG wagon. It lacks the panache a town-orchestrated attack typically has.

I also stand by my claim that you seemed to be trying very hard not to connect yourself with any people or ideas on day 1. If someone else wants to skim Yos's posts in isolation, I'd be interested in a second opinion on that.

That said, I had 3 different people I'd be willing to lynch, and I'm not about to wagon Yos just because he was the first one to show up and answer my questions. I'll

Unvote: Cooldog, Vote: manho

, because I think the four of us (me, elvis, Yos, iLord) all expressed willingness to wagon there. And we

are

under a week's deadline, so I'd like to force some claims sooner rather than later.

[Pie_is_good]

I am eating the greatest buffalo chicken sandwich right now.

[Yosarian2]

When I read the little of this game I read, I thought Yos's early "jokes" came off a little forced. He tried to get support for some wagon (cooldog?) by quoting himself and being like "I agree with Yosarian2" and "Yos makes a really good point there." Which seemed weird to be becuase hardly anyone else was joking around, they were all talking about the sample PM thing which Yos studiously ignored. Jokes>content=scummy

...jokes are scummy?

Not what I said. Jokes aren't scummy. Jokes without content elsewhere are scummy. Jokey, randomish votes when people seem to be making serious votes = scumym.

So, your theory is that scum joke more then town? Or that scum joke "when other people seem to be serious" on page 2 more then town, or whatever? What's that based on? Because I'm pretty sure that's complete bunk.

Yes, I was joking. I was also trying to start off the game doing something weird in order to try and get some kind of reaction out of Cooldog, because having played with him in the past, I've found him hard to read; last time I played with him .

I call BS. Check page 2. You moved your vote after people thought your jokes were weird, and unvoted CoolDog before he even posted. THat's not going to get any reaction from him is it?

[/quote]


Um, if I have a pre-game plan to liven up the random voting stage in order to try to get a reaction from someone, and then someone does something legitimately scummy, of course I'm going to go after that instead. Scumhunting > trying to get random voting stage reactions.

[Yosarian2]

Yos: Here are the early-game McG attacks you made that

don't

seem to me to be lurkerlynching:

You said that you hadn't read the game. I asked you why. (Ok, I said "weren't willing to" instead of "hadn't", but there had clearly been pleanty of time to read it if you had been willing to.) You responded by FOSing me and acting like I misrepresented you.

So, there are only two scum in the game now, huh?

[calling him out on a slip]

Am I missing anything? That's literally 2 lines of accusatory text (both of which I find unconvincing and a bit below Yos), and it hardly strikes me as championing the McG wagon. It lacks the panache a town-orchestrated attack typically has.

Well, this was the main point of my attack:

No i obviously FoS'd you because you put words in my mouth that I did not say.

You said that you hadn't read the game. I asked you why. (Ok, I said "weren't willing to" instead of "hadn't", but there had clearly been pleanty of time to read it if you had been willing to.) You responded by FOSing me and acting like I misrepresented you.

I did not flip either I think you just flipped by freaking out that I haven't read through the RVS.

...mafia is a text based game. You figure out who's scum by what they've said. So, yeah, if you're not reading the game, then you're clearly not interesting in figuring out who the scum are.

You are now taking my FoS out of context, so why do you blatantly grasp at straws that you make yourself?

Out of context? I quoted your whole post. I didn't take anything "out of context".

Basically, I think that being uninterested in reading the game and therefore uninterested in finding scum is a huge scum tell.

I also stand by my claim that you seemed to be trying very hard not to connect yourself with any people or ideas on day 1.

Well, that wasn't a goal of mine. I mean, I've been posting a little less then usual in all my games, down to about once every other day, due to real life stuff, but I certanly did my best to scumhunt in this game on day 1.

[Pie_is_good]

Basically, I think that being uninterested in reading the game and therefore uninterested in finding scum is a huge scum tell.

I'm reading this as "my only real case against McG is that he was lurkin' like nobody's business." Is that correct?

Also, I'm confused. Do you disagree that you came out of day 1 unlinked or do you disagree that doing so is a scumtell?

[Yosarian2]

Basically, I think that being uninterested in reading the game and therefore uninterested in finding scum is a huge scum tell.

I'm reading this as "my only real case against McG is that he was lurkin' like nobody's business." Is that correct?

Well, he wasn't lurking, though. He was posting. It was just that he didn't seem to be trying to figure out who the scum were, which is a completely different scum tell, and usually a more reliable one.

Also, I'm confused. Do you disagree that you came out of day 1 unlinked or do you disagree that doing so is a scumtell?

I disagree with your claim that I was "trying" to not be linked.

I'm also not really sure that it's any kind of reliable scumtell; just for example, who would you say your predecessor Tate was linked with after day 1?

[Pie_is_good]

For one thing, Tate was obviously anti-TateWagon. He also waded a bit into Reckoner's banter (specifically, with CoolDog and McG), and he made the claim that Reck flipping scum would clear CD and McG (if memory serves).

For two things, you have also posted much more legit content than Tate, meaning I would expect a much higher degree of linkage. Yet the content you posted seems picked-and-chosen to be linkage-immune.

For three things, this is a moot point if you're saying that yes, you did come out of day 1 unlinked, but it was completely accidental. Because then this conversation evolves into an analysis of whether or not your posting really does seem accidental (I would argue otherwise) and everyone else's actions are another matter entirely.

And for four things, sure, McG

active

lurked instead of your garden-variety lurking. My point stands: that wagon is not about to get you any backlash.

[Starbuck]

@Nobody Special - You said you've read the thread. Do you have cases to make on anyone?

@starbuck, I didn't attack you and don't need post info. Also my vote is not on personal attacks or anything of that nature. My vote is on responding bad under press, and lurking. I don't count lurking by it self as a scum tell, however lurking right after a wagon starts is a bit scummy to me.

1. Where did I say that you attacked me? What's with the overreaction?

2. What response of Reck's did you consider "responding bad under press"?

3. So you are also voting Reck for lurking, but are giving a free pass to MrSuave AND Animo AND CryMeaRiver AND Diamond AND manho? You are being a hypocrite, sir.

Unvote: evilsnail
Vote: CooLDoG

[CooLDoG]

@ starbuck viewtopic.php?t=13512&postdays=0&postor ... &start=475 And go to the next page as well. Also I did say that lurking alone was not a scum tell alone for me... I consider it to be an additive to already scummy posting. I would also support a manho lynch becuase of the fact that he doesn't post content and his posts are scummy. I however think a reck lynch would be better. BUT if we are pushed by a close deadline I would not hesitate to vote for manho... [joke] Also Battle Star Galatica is my fav TV show.... You wouldn't lynch another fan wouldya?[/joke] Joke tags are a new req for posting in this thread [joke](sory yos.)[/joke]

[CooLDoG]

ohhh and I forgot...
@ani about almost no rules mafia, who are you top scummeis? And do you support the UK lynch?

[Starbuck]

You linked me to a page, not specific anything.

Again...


1. Where did I say that you attacked me? What's with the overreaction?

2. What response of Reck's did you consider "responding bad under press"?

Specifics help.

[Yosarian2]

For three things, this is a moot point if you're saying that yes, you did come out of day 1 unlinked, but it was completely accidental. Because then this conversation evolves into an analysis of whether or not your posting really does seem accidental (I would argue otherwise) and everyone else's actions are another matter entirely.

I don;t really think I'm any less "linked" then most people in the game, or most people in most games, which was the point I was making about tate.

Besides that, while I kind of understand why you would think scum would avoid being "linked", I'm not sure I agree with your theory; sure, scum avoid linking with each other, but they often intentionally link up with townies, either in a "buddying" kind of way, or else in such a way as to make the townie look bad if they get caught and flip scum.

And for four things, sure, McG

active

lurked instead of your garden-variety lurking. My point stands: that wagon is not about to get you any backlash.

I wouldn't just call it "active lurking" either. Active lurking is bad as well, and right now I'm voting McSwave for active lurking; it's actually a really good reason to lynch someone. But that wasn't what I was attacking him for, either, because he was saying more then an "active lurker" usually would.

IMHO, the biggest difference between a scum and a town in most situations is that a townie is trying to find scum, and a scum isn't, not really. For that reason, "not trying to find scum" is an incredibly useful scumtell, and if someone is being active but don't seem to be trying to find scum, I'll generally push for their lynch with even more vigor then I'll push for the lynch of a lurker.

In any case, I still think that it sounds like your main problem with me lies in your antithipy to bandwagoning people for lurking, anti-town behavior, ect, and I still think that's just not good stratagy, especally on day 1. Town needs to lynch active lurkers, period.