Open 212--Hard Boiled Mafia (Game Over)

[Bio Hazard]

No it was p.1 everything there is basically null. But I do find it alarming that you're pushing so hard for it.

I disagree with this reasoning. Just because it is page one does not make things null.

btw, obviously ksun wasn't lurking since I replaced him so any offense on that is null lol

Why did you feel the need to point this out?

1. That's fine, you can disagree, but RVing is NOT a scum tell no matter how you look at it. It will always be because of chance instead of evidence. Of course if they write "OMG guizz I am so cited to play wif muh scumm pawtnuh" sure, that is a case where you can come up positive on something. But saying they are scummy because their RV not being that great of reasoning is just stupid as no RV has reason. That's what makes it RV.

Go back and read the first page of the game. The post I was most suspicious of wasn't MMM's random vote.

[semioldguy]

I have read the whole thread. What would that have to do with whether or not I question this?

The mere fact that you replaced him should have been answer enough regarding his lurking, that he flaked rather than lurked. You stating what you did was unnecessary in my opinion and it looks bad to me. No one has made that allegation since you replaced in. Did you feel that someone would? Did you feel that the allegation of his lurking still stood after you replaced in? Why or why not?

[chauchaudotcom]

Statements like 'I know I'm good, but don't expect me to catch all the scum so soon!' are usually made by scum, not town.

Seeing how this was said in a joking manner, I still don't see how it is more attributed to scum then town. It seems more like a player personality then anything. Do you have examples of when this was used and the player flipped scum?

Unvote; Vote: mindgamer

Your statement about the MMM wagon was a bold statement. And though you continually insist it was a fast growing, suspicious wagon, you backed off your vote and switched to Ythan rather easily. For, from my perspective, crappy reasons. Furthermore, I have yet to see you press anyone on the actual MMM wagon about their activity on it. If you're so suspicious of the fast growing wagon, why have you not been questioning bio, frost and semi (perhaps even snail)? You did vote Frost but never went into reasoning though he requested you to do so multiple times.

Deer - What made Frost a 'scummy' read as opposed to all the slightly scummy reads you had on others?

btw, obviously ksun wasn't lurking since I replaced him so any offense on that is null lol

Rather quick to defend yourself.

[McGriddle]

Why not be quick to defend myself? I came in the game with that question following me, so I answered it.

[semioldguy]

Why not be quick to defend myself? I came in the game with that question following me, so I answered it.

No one was attacking you for it. The question hadn't been asked of you since you replaced in. There was no need for you to be quick to defend yourself.

btw, obviously ksun wasn't lurking since I replaced him so any offense on that is null lol

Also, if you thought it was obvious, why did you need to say it?

[farside22]

I took the day off so a few games are not getting my attention today. This is one of those games.
My apologizes.

[Mindgamer]

Bio Hazard
Where's this half vote coming from?

Evilsnail.

Bio Hazard
... and the ythan wagon also happened quickly.

I'm not critisizing the wagon I'm on myself obviously.

This has been told earlier, read better thanks.

----------

Chauchaudotcom
eeing how this was said in a joking manner, I still don't see how it is more attributed to scum then town.

Ythan was joking? I didn't get that impression.

Chauchaudotcom
Do you have examples of when this was used and the player flipped scum?

Yes, offsite, it's why I'm using this tell in the first place. However, unless you can read Dutch you won't be able to see the example so you'll just have to trust me.

What's the big deal about the MMM wagon? It's remarkable, but not THAT important. There's more interesting stuf to look at, like Ythan's statement.

The RayFrost vote was a reaction vote, it had nothing to do with the MMM wagon.

[Deer]

[quote="chauchau"
Deer - What made Frost a 'scummy' read as opposed to all the slightly scummy reads you had on others?
[/quote]

I think it's just his general playstyle I don't like, honestly. Just posts like this:

so far, this is the only vote explanation I feel is even remotely good.

vote: MysteriousMysteryMan

not contributing to the scumhunting = scummy

start being useful or die. (I chose you over [insert majority of player list here] because of secret reasoning that is too awesome to disclose)

Where he picks a player he doesn't like on page 2, and sticks a vote on him. Then "sincerely believes" MMM is scum pages later only because he is placating to you. Also, I thought this:

Everybody should explain why they are voting who they are voting.

Everybody not voting should explain why they aren't voting.

I'm not voting because I didn't take part in the RVS, and I haven't found anything scummy yet.

Was pretty unnecessary, the game was still on the cusp of RVS. That's what I was referring too when I said "freaking out," by the way.

I would also like to know how you can go 'reasons' and then go 'my gut is just sensing something fishy' as if you had no idea, but you just had a feeling.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

There's just something about his style that really irks me, I think that's just it. Maybe I was a little harsh with the "scummy read" statement.

Hey mindgamer, wanna answer my question?

[Jeffcole1]

Vote Count 1.8:

Mysterious Mystery Man (4): Bio Hazard, farside22, NickF227, RayFrost
NickF227 (3): evilsnail, mindgamer, semioldguy
Mindgamer (2): chauchaudotcom, Deer
Bio Hazard (1): Mysterious Mystery Man
McGriddle (1): ortolan
semioldguy (1): McGriddle

[NickF227]

Is it just me, or are we just talking in circles? We aren't getting anywhere. Either we decide we are going to lynch someone, or we no-lynch and wait until we get more information. Bullshitting isn't going to get us anywhere.

[semioldguy]

@NickF227
You've had two posts with any sort of measurable content this game since replacing in. It is not possible for you to be talking in circles yet, nor do I agree with your assessment.

[ortolan]

@ortolan
Why is it a good thing that you don't see anything explicitly scummy from players you've played with previously?

Because I wouldn't want anything to come between us, SOG. I also like playing cooperatively with people I've played with previously. Sets off a nice vibe and continuity.

Tbh I initially had an explicitly town read on MMM, but didn't like the "you have a jester role PM" to RayFrost. Now I'm kinda nullish on him. If you can type logically like he is doing, then you can fake being logical like he is doing. I haven't seen him do anything which is actually scummy though.

mindgamer is a better wagon, I get scummy vibes from him. Didn't like prescient defence of MMM in ISO 3. His statements also reek of excessive dissection and providing excessive detail, possibly in an attempt to feign contribution while leaving few explicit, clearly stated opinions.

Unvote
Vote: Mindgamer

[McGriddle]

Why not be quick to defend myself? I came in the game with that question following me, so I answered it.

No one was attacking you for it. The question hadn't been asked of you since you replaced in. There was no need for you to be quick to defend yourself.

btw, obviously ksun wasn't lurking since I replaced him so any offense on that is null lol

Also, if you thought it was obvious, why did you need to say it?

1. I am not going to apologize for answering an unanswered question. You are applying pressure for a reason in which there is no grounds.

2. I said it just in case anyone tried to hold it against me. Why are you so determined to use the fact that I answered a question as a scum tell?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Sorry, can't pay much attention to this game right now with RL stuff. I'm keeping my vote because I feel BH's early vote on me was suspicious, it's almost as if he found reasons to vote me after the vote itself.

[Mindgamer]

NickF227
Is it just me, or are we just talking in circles? We aren't getting anywhere. Either we decide we are going to lynch someone, or we no-lynch and wait until we get more information. Bullshitting isn't going to get us anywhere.

This post is useless and an attempt to look town. If you're so annoyed by the current discussions, why don't you take an initiative instead of whine?

Ortolan
His statements also reek of excessive dissection and providing excessive detail, possibly in an attempt to feign contribution while leaving few explicit, clearly stated opinions.

What... the... marshmellow?

Take a look at me in ISO. My paragraphs are almost all one sentence long. How can you possibly think I'm excessively elaborating on things?

[farside22]

Bio post 23 How is what MMM stated a preemptive defense?

MMM did you ever respond to Bio's post 23 and his comment?

chau: With the game at a standstill was their a reason to really critisize ray for questioning someone's RVS vote?

Mindgamer: Why did you vote for Rayfrost pst 55?

RayFrost: What case was ever made before this? All I saw was bio saying that MMM's post could be premptive.

Ray: in regards to ythan were you reading at all what he was claiming or where you trying to ignore the fact he was bring up an ongoing game?

Ort is coming of actively lurker who offers nothing so far this game and is someone IGMEO

Ray post 77: I would call this post hypocritical.

ray post 86: better but not sure if I agree. I read it twice and I just don't see it.

ort post 94: noninformative.

evil pst 96 why the unvote? Who do you think is scum and why?

mindgamer Why the big fuss about a few simple votes? Frustration is more likely to come from scum than from town, you know.

I disagree I have seen frustation from both town and scum. It's a null tell.

I do however agree with mind on evil in this same post. (post 103)

MMM post 105: I really still find this post really scummy

Semigold post 111: Although I agree with you that what ythan did was wrong on many levels why is it scummy?

ythan post 114: All sorts of wrong here. I don't like people who I find are purposing missing the post.

ythan post 118: completely OMGUS

ythan post 122: Doesn't seem to care that a player can't defend meta (not meta in my view) of an ongoing game and him pushing something he found from an ongoing game is scummy.

semigold post 123: wins

evil post 131: what happened to the possible vote on MMM?

evil post 138 please ignore post 131 above. Does ythan strike you as scummier then MMM? What reason's would that be if so?

Nick post 154: What in your read gives you scum vibes from mindgamer and MMM?

Deer post 161: I don't get your point on here.

mmmm

Mindgamer randomly critizing the MMM 'wagon' was pretty...weird. He just said "Oh, I think its scummy" and nothing else. I just thought that was really weird.

That's not what I read.

I don't like how the Mysterious Mystery Man wagon is growing so quickly. Already three votes, and Evilsnail outing suspicions towards Mysterious Mystery Man. I'd say there's a good chance on of those last three is scum (Semioldguy's vote was a random vote).

Sure it's vague. I think I pinged on this because of Evil alluding to voting for MMM that made me concern. But I do agree that Mind should expand on why he found the votes on MMM with a good chance of scum on it.

So on review of the game. MMM still gives me big time scum vibes. He seems to be implying that what bio is pushing makes him scummy and I don't see it.
Bio strikes me as aggressive town.
ythan/nick give me big time scum vibes. Most of this from ythan and his OMGUS vote on semigold but nick's post that is a bw vote that offers next to nothing as reasoning is scummy.

[Deer]

Deer post 161: I don't get your point on here.

Mindgamer was asking where I got the impression he thought there wasn't scum on the MMM wagon anymore. I pointed out that he was voting Ythan, someone not on the MMM wagon, then asked if he suspected Ythan over the three of you on the MMM wagon. Sorry if that was confusing.

Mindgamer, you still haven't answered me, by the way.

[ortolan]

Take a look at me in ISO. My paragraphs are almost all one sentence long. How can you possibly think I'm excessively elaborating on things?

That's not really what I meant. You just seem to be dissecting a whole bunch of quotes and going off tangent with your answers. It's kind of like Mastin I suppose (although nowhere near as bad).

[chauchaudotcom]

chau: With the game at a standstill was their a reason to really critisize ray for questioning someone's RVS vote?

Questioning someone's RVS vote is fine. But I felt that him pointing out that no one had a good reason for their random vote was pointless. It's called random for a reason. I'm not sure what you're getting at. Does everything we do have to have an ulterior motive? I merely said what I thought of his comment at the time. Nothing more.

McG - Now that you've caught up properly, who is your top suspect?

That's not really what I meant. You just seem to be dissecting a whole bunch of quotes and

going off tangent with your answers.

Can you give me Iso examples of this claim?

MMM - Again, "Given we are now SEVEN pages in. Is Bio & Frost still your

only

leads?"

[McGriddle]

@ chauchau - My top suspect is BH.

[farside22]

@ chauchau - My top suspect is BH.

Why?

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Does everything we do have to have an ulterior motive?

Hi, I'm farside I think everyone is scum till proven otherwise.
On a serious note I'm suspicious of everything I see and question many things I see no reason not to.

[McGriddle]

Post 171.

Not strong, but it's beginning.

Btw, I am not saying P.1 is always null, just in this case because everything was nothing.

[farside22]

Post 171.

Not strong, but it's beginning.

Btw, I am not saying P.1 is always null, just in this case because everything was nothing.

So out of 8 pages you found BH scum based on his push on MMM. You have nothing else that struck you as scummy? No other suspects?

This is some very weak stuff coming from you.

fos: McG

[Mindgamer]

Farside22
Mindgamer: Why did you vote for Rayfrost pst 55?

To ignite reactions. This has already been said.

Deer
Mindgamer, you still haven't answered me, by the way.

Your question is hidden in a failed quote tag.

'Ythan is not on said wagon. Do you suspect him/nick over RF? BH? farside? If not, then why are you voting him?'

Obviously I suspect NickF227 (brilliant nickname btw) over anyone on the Mysterious Mystery Man wagon. The growth of the Mysterious Mystery Manw wagon is simply remarkable, whereas Ythan has dropped a true scumtell, although not an universally accepted scumtell. NickF227's newest post is also extremely scummy.

Is it just me, or are we just talking in circles? We aren't getting anywhere. Either we decide we are going to lynch someone, or we no-lynch and wait until we get more information. Bullshitting isn't going to get us anywhere.

Pointing out things like 'we aren't getting anywhere' is more likely to come from scum than town, but it's especially NickF227's call for less discussion which stands out. Like lynches/kills are the only way to get information... Could be just newbie behaviour, but it doesn't look good for him.

Ortolan
That's not really what I meant. You just seem to be dissecting a whole bunch of quotes and going off tangent with your answers. It's kind of like Mastin I suppose (although nowhere near as bad).

Very sorry my style of posting does not amuse you. Who is Mastin?

[Jeffcole1]

Vote Count 1.9:

Mysterious Mystery Man (4): Bio Hazard, farside22, NickF227, RayFrost
Mindgamer (3): chauchaudotcom, Deer, ortolan
NickF227 (3): evilsnail, mindgamer, semioldguy
Bio Hazard (1): Mysterious Mystery Man
semioldguy (1): McGriddle

evilsnail and RayFrost will be prodded.

You know, I could have sworn I posted a vote count yesterday...Eh, nothing's really changed since the last one, so it's no big loss. I'll try to stay on top of things in the future, though.

Also, a reminder: the deadline for Day 1 is March 30, 2010, at 9:00 PM EST, so keep that in mind. You don't want a No Lynch sneaking up on you, now, do you?