Karma Mafia (Game Over!)

[NickF227]

Sorry! I was really busy today, I just got home an hour or two ago, and I had to finish up a paper and was about to go to bed before I remembered to check here.

I'll read over and decide on a vote tomorrow. I'm really tired and I can't think when I'm tired.

For example, I randomly typed 'tomorrow' after tired in that last sentence. Why? I don't know.

[Porochaz]

Papa Zito, why is my opinion so important to you? You seem to want to pass your suspicions onto me and frankly I see nothing there. If you have a problem with it, deal with it yourself.

[curiouskarmadog]

Whoa…a couple pages I need to catch up..from fucking page 8?...sorry if this turns into a wall of words.

CKD you played the game, do you feel his play is similar at all (apart from perhaps being maybe not very good, but that's irrelevant)

Similiar yes...exact no. Similiar in regards that he says something that he thinks sounds like someone who should be scum hunting would say. Even though it doesnt make any sense and is logically flawed. If you read the whole game, I was constantly (even in the QT neighbors thread) doubting that he was town. I couldnt believe anyone would actually believe some of the shit he was saying. As it turns out, I still dont believe he believed the shit he was saying, he was just saying it to look town. Example in this game....the bullshit about testing reactions...I dont believe for a minute he was testing reactions....but I think he has said it because he thinks that is what someone who is protown would/should say. also if I have money, I bet once you press him for backtrack (like I did in the other game) his anti-town ass will stop answering questions.

By the end of the other game, many (to include myself) wrote him off as being the VI. if he wasnt mostly confirmed in that game, he would have been dead a long time ago.

For this game....his actions are a null tell. I think he would make perfect vig strike. (yes, consider that directing the vig, bitches). Unless of course, the Gods hate my ass and he is the vig, then please sir, end my torment.

I still need to read the game that is done with CKD/Rich.

looking forward to hearing your thoughts after.

Lurker hunting is easy to use as scum.
Richard pushing is also easy to use as scum.

saying something is "easy to use as scum" is easy to use as scum. (I understand in hypocrisy of my statement).

FoS: All lurker apologists

I've lynched too many lurkerscum in my time to quit now.

qft


+++

reading the Anon/farside arguement. tempted to vote Anon, on a vibe. anon what kind of reaction were you trying to get form farside? What reaction would you have deemed scummy? town? How did she fair? Also, why post that you were going to stop posting(ie logging off)? Why not just log off?

[My Milked Eek]

saying something is "easy to use as scum" is easy to use as scum. (I understand in hypocrisy of my statement).

lol
I was just saying that anyone pushing both "cases" is either stupid town or scum trying to slip by by using easy methods of appearing protown and scumhuinting while the actual hunting and protown value of both actions are pretty much nil.

[Patrick]

Votecount

farside22 (3) -- Albert B. Rampage, RichardGHP, Snow_Bunny
Albert B. Rampage (2) -- My Milked Eek, dybeck
NickF227 (1) -- Pomegranate
Pomegranate (1) -- NickF227
Anon (2) -- Espeonage, farside22
RichardGHP (4) -- Porochaz, Seraphim, Faraday, Sando
Porochaz (1) -- bv310
Sando (1) -- Bio Hazard
Faraday (1) -- curiouskarmadog
DocPotter (1) -- Jahudo
bv310 (2) -- Papa Zito, Anon

Not voting: DocPotter
20 alive, 11 to lynch.

Having read DocPotter's sig I will give him another day or so.

[Jahudo]

I understand the argument that pushing Richard or lurkers is an easy way out for scum right now, but each can be valid cases for this early day 1 stage when cases aren't always big or full of confidence. The idea is to make a mountain out of a molehill and see if it leads to more suspicious behavior. Anyone trying to stop it from occurring at all looks anti-town to me... but not necessarily scum and definitely not defending richard/lurkers.

No one looks scum right now for stopping a thread of discussion, but they are anti-town for giving Richard and the lurkers an easy out from answering questions--even if its on small points that might not lead anywhere.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Well guys I sincerely apologize for my horrible lur- on second thought, FOOK YOO.

Hyahyayhyaa

[Porochaz]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0

[Albert B. Rampage]

^^^ nothing to see there.

So who do we lynch Porochaz?

[farside22]

Okay I did an iso on Richard in the game that CKD brought up. Here's a few things I found different. (1) richard actually tried to explain his actions (2) the case on him was horrible. That looked to be maybe his second game and him asking about RVS in that game and players saying he's using Newb excuse was horribley scummy. (3) Post reasonable explanantions on his views.

Guess what I don't see here in this game.....all of the above. So yeah not see the difference there, but since i have seen Richard also attack players who try to reason with him in another game that is current I could almost buy the attitude. But he's not attacking anyone instead he shuts down.

Just and FYI on the link that Porochaz gave. I disagree with JD's theory as I have seen scum lurk for the win more times then I can count. Ignoring the lurkers is a free ride for most scum players. I have seen players that have played poorly use their "meta" and flip scum. It's all in how you read a player that defines scum/town.

[dybeck]

Albert, is it your intention to lurk in plain sight? Or are you just lazy?

You seem to have made a lot of posts for someone who's said precisely nothing.

[Faraday]

Holy thread explosion batman. Let me read back over and see what I've missed.

[Faraday]

Depending on what Richard does next, bv may be my next suspect. I may have to read up on his meta because his posts are throwing up red flags.

How much do you use meta, Sera? It just seems you could at least take a stance on him before you read his meta, then at least re-evaluate.

I hate the LaLurkers mechanic, how about we let Patrick do his job and prod/replace and we do some proper scumhunting?

If people are going to post in other games they should be kept tabs on, this early in the game it shouldn't be a big deal, but actively avoiding a thread is a scum tell in my (and many others) opinion. I don't like the implication that both can't be achieved or even go hand in hand.

I don't know how many of you are scum or not. All I know is that your crusade is not helping anyone and is getting on my nerves. It's not scum hunting because you have no reason to believe DocPotter is scum. If he doesn't post today, he'll be replaced. Big effing deal. It's the first week of the first Day. By focusing solely on the lurkers, you are acting like them by not participating in the game and giving us little or no read on you. Use your vote to hunt possible suspects and let the mod do his job.

See above imo. if he's got a valid explanation then fine, but don't act like keeping an eye on lurkers is stopping 'proper' scumhunting. That's pretty clearly not true.

Papa Zito is vig

LMAO.

Seriously, what possible benefit is there to announcing it? If he is, then now he's been outed. If he isn't, then odds are he'll be NK'd and we lose a valuable townie.

^^ feels fake. Also discounts papa as scum, can you explain why?

Come on, let's just lynch whoever the fuck ever, I don't care about Day 1.

But day 1 is one of the most fun parts of the game
Who would you prefer to lynch though, surely you've some preference?

Gaaaaaah...I want to vote bv310 reeeeeally bad right now...but Richard still needs pressure...

This is by my count the 3rd time you've mentioned bv. It seems a bit odd you're going to keep on talking about how badly you want to vote him and then not.

Anon's reading fairly ok to me in his responses. I don't think he's fencesitting, he's saying it's a case by case basis and he's trying to work out what's going on. obviously i'd like a stance from him, but I'd prefer he analyse the wagon instead of doing it half assed too, so yeah.

Hmm Bv's response makes sense. SpyreX used it to breadcrumb vig in Tofu mafia (too lazy to get a link).

As I said, earlier I think(?), Richard doesn't look that similar CKD, your points are maybe valid (i'm not sure what to think if he's lying, it seems pretty hard to figure out what he's doing), but I'm content with my vote on him as of now as I feel he deserves some pressure.

[Seraphim]

In terms of meta, I tend not to use it in a lot of my normal play. However, when I'm getting a gut feel on someone rather than anything concrete, I'll read a person's play as town to see if I'm getting the same feeling. It's really just for my own personal benefit.

I'm not voting bv because I want answers from Richard first and unvoting him now will drop the pressure on him. I'm talking about in sort of a glorified FoS manner.

Keeping an eye on lurkers is fine, voting them when there are suspects and discussions on the table? Especially when the lurkers you are hunting haven't even posted yet? That's almost as bad as lurking. It's too early to have players dedicated solely to lurker hunting.

There are other points I want to highlight but not right now.

[Papa Zito]

I was beaten by goddamn Empking by letting him lurk and not policy lynching his ass early. I'm not letting that happen again.

ABR, scumlist plz.

[farside22]

Faraday: please link a game you saw scum using a reaction ploy to make a town look scum on day 1 in the RVS stage.

[Snow_Bunny]

Sorry, I was VLA, and I'm a bit busy as of now.

I will post something tomorrow. Sorry.

[Seraphim]

Albert, is it your intention to lurk in plain sight? Or are you just lazy?

You seem to have made a lot of posts for someone who's said precisely nothing.

Hey, pot, have you met kettle?

[bv310]

Faraday, I wasn't discounting him as scum, I just don't see any scumminess in his posts. It's funny though, that argument of "He didn't say scum, so he must be scum!" is almost never used by pro-town players.

[Seraphim]

I think Richard is town, but very whiny town.

He seems to be playing the newbie-scum stereotype quite fully.

I'm not sure yet. I'm leaning towards newbie-scum, but that's not enough to warrant a real wagon.

he seems slightly scummier after a quick iso-read.

I don't know what to call him now.

That dramatic a turnaround and AtE seems very much like scum trying to cry their way out.

Unvote
Vote: bv310

[/quote]

[Seraphim]

and yes, I fail at quote tags and yes, those posts were all made by bv, and yes, those are in order of occurrence.

[farside22]

Nice catch my Sera with bv310 constant flipping oppinion of Richard.

fos: Bv310

Come on Anon I want answers.

[Faraday]

Faraday: please link a game you saw scum using a reaction ploy to make a town look scum on day 1 in the RVS stage.

What? Please quote where I said I'd seen it, thanks. I never said I'd seen it but hey, I don't think it's impossible. I'm saying I don't think Anon is fencesitting, and I thought his responses to the pressure were pretty ok.

Faraday, I wasn't discounting him as scum, I just don't see any scumminess in his posts. It's funny though, that argument of "He didn't say scum, so he must be scum!" is almost never used by pro-town players.

Well if that's the case why isn't your vote on me? 'Almost never' is pretty good for day 1, wouldn't you say. And I disagree, I find when people make sweeping assumptions and almost calling someone as town, without really thinking about it to be scummy.

[Anon]

Farside all your 268 can be answered with:

Why do you think taking a stance different to yours makes someone scum?

When you get back Anon I want links to games you saw scum do what your claiming there.

Sure. I know some game you'll remember called Pick your Poison 4 where you were pushing Yosarian's case in a way that made me think you were town. Unfortunately for me and almost for the game, you were scum and I got lynched for it. But thats where I learnt that pushing cases is very easy to fake and not the 100% towntell you are trying to paint.

Now that we are talking about that game, you commented that you remembered my play from the other game. Now that Im fully caught up, how different/similar am I playing to that game?

[Anon]

Anon. It is a simple chioce between a couple of people. There are better ways to choose other than jumping on the biggest wagon.

Why deciding your vote with that reason is scummy enough to vote someone?

Also what is your opinion on wagons?

reading the Anon/farside arguement. tempted to vote Anon, on a vibe. anon what kind of reaction were you trying to get form farside? What reaction would you have deemed scummy? town? How did she fair? Also, why post that you were going to stop posting(ie logging off)? Why not just log off?

I dont plan to get reactions on people when I ask questions. I evaluate the answers I get. Right now, farside is giving me mixed vibes. Ive seen her doing this with magnus in an ongoing game where they are both dead and town but Ive also seen her doing this as scum with Yosarian in the game I mentioned. Im also prob biased by omgus. What do you think of her?

And the log off is something I made with the intention of obligating me of not posting more and get my work done. I made three new friends and were having some nice chatting but business are business.