Scummies 2010 Nominations
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xRECKONERx GD is my Best Man
- GD is my Best Man
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Shanba So win
- So win
- So win
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Nominate TheStatusQuo for Professor Mafiafor this
Nominate Jdodge for Professor Mafiafor viewtopic.php?t=13712this[/url]
both need to continue their series on mafia theory, though.(10:50:24 PM) xcaykex: GODDAMNIT I DONT WANNA GET RID OF MY TENTACLE RAPE PORN
Ribbit.-
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Max Mafia Scum
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Shanba So win
- So win
- So win
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Wait, what? Are you saying this shouldn't be waht professor mafia award is about? Cause if so I fundamentally disagree with you.Max wrote:Is that really what people have to do to get professor mafia write essays?
For a long time, I admit, the award has tended to go to people who do stuff like writing out a whole bunch of role PMs, or other similar tasks which are about the game, but not about how to play the game. Very little of what is nominated for the prof mafia award seems to be about actual mafia theory, and perhaps that's part of the reason why contributions to mafia theory are pretty limited these days.
I want people to write essays like those, because it helps to get people involved in thinking about the game, and that can only improve the quality of play on site; agree or disagree with what they say, it forces you to challenge your preconceived notions and hence gives you greater insight into the game.
Do you really think writing out a whole bunch of standardised role pms, for example, is more worthy?(10:50:24 PM) xcaykex: GODDAMNIT I DONT WANNA GET RID OF MY TENTACLE RAPE PORN
Ribbit.-
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Mr. Flay Metatron
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Max Mafia Scum
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No, not at all, writing PMs should be something all moderators can do. So it doesn't deserve the award.Do you really think writing out a whole bunch of standardised role pms, for example, is more worthy?
I think that writing essays being awarded means that players who often make great points in lots of threads are overlooked. As it's a body of work award I would say that you need to do a lot more than write essays.-
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DizzyIzzyB13 Mafia Scum
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Aside from the fact that making several points in a single essay post is at worst equivalent to posting poinbts in several threads, surely instigating and leading debate is more of a contribution to theory than passively responding to other people's ideas? I mean, if people did not start threads in which they espoused their theories of mafia, exactly how would the people who respond to threads actually make a contribution in the first place?ShowDizzyIzzyB13: For the record, I /ghooked Cogitate :p
ChannelDelibird: Well, for the record, FUCK YOU
ChannelDelibird: ;_;
DizzyIzzyB13: Cogitate is shorter. :(
DizzyIzzyB13: Sorry, CD
ChannelDelibird: Well, at least that's the first time a girl has told me "it's not short enough"-
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Max Mafia Scum
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Panacea Goon
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May I please nominate Oman for Moderator Awards; Best Flavor Text?
Newbie #890 is a good example, and I'm sure others will second, third, etc. me there.Town: 2. 2.
Scum: 2. 1.-
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Mr. Flay Metatron
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I would say yes, even if it wasn't me. Improvement should be shown in the current year, but benchmarking can be from years previous.Max wrote:Can most improved player be backdated more than a year so say I felt that flay had improved since 2006 could I nominate him now?
That's a really bad example (flays always been good) but you get my drift. And if so should I link to an old game and a new one?Retired as of October 2014.-
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zoraster He/HimDisorganized CrimeHe/Him
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Nominate: Hoopla for Professor Mafiafor this http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 94#2185294
This contribution is huge. Not only does it take a long time, but it helps to stop the endless chatter without any data. Data is good. It helps us make informed comments without relying on simple anecdotal evidence that is fraught with problems.
I am grateful for the contributions made already on behalf of some essayists, but to my mind, Hoopla's contribution here is something that helps Mafia Discussion (Professor Mafia=Contribution to Mafia Discussion) in ways that essays can't possibly hope to do..-
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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werd.zoraster wrote:Nominate: Hoopla for Professor Mafiafor this http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 94#2185294
This contribution is huge. Not only does it take a long time, but it helps to stop the endless chatter without any data. Data is good. It helps us make informed comments without relying on simple anecdotal evidence that is fraught with problems.
I am grateful for the contributions made already on behalf of some essayists, but to my mind, Hoopla's contribution here is something that helps Mafia Discussion (Professor Mafia=Contribution to Mafia Discussion) in ways that essays can't possibly hope to do.second! Data driven mafia discussion is a huge improvement, and it takes hard work and dedication.-
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Damon_Gant Goon
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zoraster wrote:Nominate: Hoopla for Professor Mafiafor this http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 94#2185294
This contribution is huge. Not only does it take a long time, but it helps to stop the endless chatter without any data. Data is good. It helps us make informed comments without relying on simple anecdotal evidence that is fraught with problems.
I am grateful for the contributions made already on behalf of some essayists, but to my mind, Hoopla's contribution here is something that helps Mafia Discussion (Professor Mafia=Contribution to Mafia Discussion) in ways that essays can't possibly hope to do.Thirded. I do love essays. However, data is even better, and also objective, rather than subjective.Swimming, anyone?
Call me Gant-
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Lord Gurgi Mostly Harmless
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Shanba So win
- So win
- So win
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Look, I accept we're going to have differences of opinion on things like these, and I can accept that she gets nommed for collecting the data - ultimately the judges will make the decision as to what they think is most important. But I don't see what hoopla is adding as that notable.
Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate it and I hope she continues to get data for analysis, but what does the data actually tell us? I mean, it's just a list of win percentages relating to different setup types. It's a great starting point for discussion about balance, and I hope people take up that opportunity (I'm going to make some comments in a bit). But this kind of thing has been done before: there are countless people who have run stats on newbie games win percentages, and I know that I myself have done something like this before, and a google search reveals that you have too, Adel. What makes this particularly noteworthy?
(As to why I think the things I nominated to are particularly noteworthy, as someone is inevitably going to throw this in my face: I think that both JD and shea are raising topics that aren't often discussed yet have relevance to the way that people play mafia. JD's is more self serving and shea's is more notable imo, but I'm interested in seeing what JD adds in the continuation of his series.)
This is intended to spark debate btw. If you disagree, please please please say why and don't just blow me off. Adel, I'm looking at you here.(10:50:24 PM) xcaykex: GODDAMNIT I DONT WANNA GET RID OF MY TENTACLE RAPE PORN
Ribbit.-
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Panacea Goon
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zoraster He/HimDisorganized CrimeHe/Him
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I certainly don't want to minimize the contribution of others writing essays and the like. But I think you're wrong to dismiss the contribution of data.Shanba wrote:Look, I accept we're going to have differences of opinion on things like these, and I can accept that she gets nommed for collecting the data - ultimately the judges will make the decision as to what they think is most important. But I don't see what hoopla is adding as that notable.
Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate it and I hope she continues to get data for analysis, but what does the data actually tell us? I mean, it's just a list of win percentages relating to different setup types. It's a great starting point for discussion about balance, and I hope people take up that opportunity (I'm going to make some comments in a bit). But this kind of thing has been done before: there are countless people who have run stats on newbie games win percentages, and I know that I myself have done something like this before, and a google search reveals that you have too, Adel. What makes this particularly noteworthy?
(As to why I think the things I nominated to are particularly noteworthy, as someone is inevitably going to throw this in my face: I think that both JD and shea are raising topics that aren't often discussed yet have relevance to the way that people play mafia. JD's is more self serving and shea's is more notable imo, but I'm interested in seeing what JD adds in the continuation of his series.)
This is intended to spark debate btw. If you disagree, please please please say why and don't just blow me off. Adel, I'm looking at you here.
I think comparing Hoopla's data to newbie data is useful, but newbie data is more easily collectible as there's a limit to the number of setups possible and each gets reported and cataloged together, making compiling the data relatively simple if a little mind-numbing. Hoopla's, on the other hand, not only shows whether town or scum won but the actual setup. Having tried to do this on a limited number of games before, it is really tough stuff to do because mods aren't always great about including what the setup was on the front page. That can lead to a lot of hunting for information.
Obviously the data does not show anything in and of itself. But it gives the opportunity for analysis that did not exist before. It helps fight bad conventional wisdom. It helps people more rationally think about the balance of the games they're creating. 63% win rate for scum is HUGE. In the NFL, the owners were convinced to change playoff rules because the winner of the coin toss had gotten SUCH an advantage in recent years... and that was something like 59%..-
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Ythan SheWelcome to the HaystackShe
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Shanba So win
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I know all about how mind numbingly dull collecting data is, having collected data of my own for various reasons including updating the wiki on the results and setups of newbie games and collecting data for the thread I linked above, and I really, really respect the work hoopla has done here. However, in terms of what is a noteworthy contribution to mafia theory, I'm not sure entirely how relevant hoopla's post actually is.zoraster wrote:
I certainly don't want to minimize the contribution of others writing essays and the like. But I think you're wrong to dismiss the contribution of data.Shanba wrote:Look, I accept we're going to have differences of opinion on things like these, and I can accept that she gets nommed for collecting the data - ultimately the judges will make the decision as to what they think is most important. But I don't see what hoopla is adding as that notable.
Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate it and I hope she continues to get data for analysis, but what does the data actually tell us? I mean, it's just a list of win percentages relating to different setup types. It's a great starting point for discussion about balance, and I hope people take up that opportunity (I'm going to make some comments in a bit). But this kind of thing has been done before: there are countless people who have run stats on newbie games win percentages, and I know that I myself have done something like this before, and a google search reveals that you have too, Adel. What makes this particularly noteworthy?
(As to why I think the things I nominated to are particularly noteworthy, as someone is inevitably going to throw this in my face: I think that both JD and shea are raising topics that aren't often discussed yet have relevance to the way that people play mafia. JD's is more self serving and shea's is more notable imo, but I'm interested in seeing what JD adds in the continuation of his series.)
This is intended to spark debate btw. If you disagree, please please please say why and don't just blow me off. Adel, I'm looking at you here.
I think comparing Hoopla's data to newbie data is useful, but newbie data is more easily collectible as there's a limit to the number of setups possible and each gets reported and cataloged together, making compiling the data relatively simple if a little mind-numbing. Hoopla's, on the other hand, not only shows whether town or scum won but the actual setup. Having tried to do this on a limited number of games before, it is really tough stuff to do because mods aren't always great about including what the setup was on the front page. That can lead to a lot of hunting for information.
Obviously the data does not show anything in and of itself. But it gives the opportunity for analysis that did not exist before. It helps fight bad conventional wisdom. It helps people more rationally think about the balance of the games they're creating. 63% win rate for scum is HUGE. In the NFL, the owners were convinced to change playoff rules because the winner of the coin toss had gotten SUCH an advantage in recent years... and that was something like 59%.
63% winrate is not what the winrate actually was for scum; adding the data for all the setups together gave me a 56% scum winrate which I'm almost certain is not statistically significant (though it being midnight, I'm not about to try and run any kind of statistics on it - not that I'm actually very good at statistics anyway.) The data that most games tend to favour scum has been around for a long time anyway, tbqh.(10:50:24 PM) xcaykex: GODDAMNIT I DONT WANNA GET RID OF MY TENTACLE RAPE PORN
Ribbit.-
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Ythan SheWelcome to the HaystackShe
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zoraster He/HimDisorganized CrimeHe/Him
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Adel Crystalline Logick
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Her methodology:Shanba wrote:Look, I accept we're going to have differences of opinion on things like these, and I can accept that she gets nommed for collecting the data - ultimately the judges will make the decision as to what they think is most important. But I don't see what hoopla is adding as that notable.
Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate it and I hope she continues to get data for analysis, but what does the data actually tell us? I mean, it's just a list of win percentages relating to different setup types. It's a great starting point for discussion about balance, and I hope people take up that opportunity (I'm going to make some comments in a bit). But this kind of thing has been done before: there are countless people who have run stats on newbie games win percentages, and I know that I myself have done something like this before, and a google search reveals that you have too, Adel. What makes this particularly noteworthy?
(As to why I think the things I nominated to are particularly noteworthy, as someone is inevitably going to throw this in my face: I think that both JD and shea are raising topics that aren't often discussed yet have relevance to the way that people play mafia. JD's is more self serving and shea's is more notable imo, but I'm interested in seeing what JD adds in the continuation of his series.)
This is intended to spark debate btw. If you disagree, please please please say why and don't just blow me off. Adel, I'm looking at you here.
1. Collect data (her sample size was 336, which is huge compared to the work you and I have done before)
2. Analyse it.
3. Write essay incorporating her experience with the results of her analysis of the data. See: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 12#2187212
everyone else typically just jumps to 3, without their analysis being based upon data.-
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CSL Jack of All Trades
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Nominate animorpherv1 and spyrex as Best Mafia catchers in SWN II: The Curse of the Nekomata
Nailed the Greek Mafia AND the serial killer in one day. Ani was the vig.
Nominate the award: "Best Scum Player" under Body of Work (Player Award)
Nominate Maemuki for "Best Scum Player" of the American Mafia in SWN II Curse of the Nekomata
Lived for days without being caught. Post-restricted Miller claimed. If correct traget was picked during the night, we would've won.
^Read the game. I DARE you to.Show"I can't kill my own best friend, especially when I can't do shit at all!" - Tragedy
"" - AmrunTHETIGERBLOODLUSTWASRUNNINGTHROUGHMYVEINS
V/LA from Mafia on weekends. Sorry!-
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Kairyuu Mafia Scum
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In the absence of the Best Performance in a losing cause (which Mae would be perfect for in this case), ICSL wrote:Nominate animorpherv1 and spyrex as Best Mafia catchers in SWN II: The Curse of the Nekomata
Nailed the Greek Mafia AND the serial killer in one day. Ani was the vig.
Nominate the award: "Best Scum Player" under Body of Work (Player Award)
Nominate Maemuki for "Best Scum Player" of the American Mafia in SWN II Curse of the Nekomata
Lived for days without being caught. Post-restricted Miller claimed. If correct traget was picked during the night, we would've won.
^Read the game. I DARE you to.second all of the aboveBecause, no matter how you dress it up, that's what the world is. A community of idiots doing a series of things until the world explodes and we all die.-
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animorpherv1 Honey Trap
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nominate UncertainKitten for Best Third Party in SWN II
UncertainKitten wrote:YAY! I WON BY CLAIMING THIRD PARTY! TWICE!"Animorpherv1's posts are so powerful that prolonged exposure may cause vertigo, nausea, acute tinnitus, and in rare cases, death." - vonflare
"Ani is right 100% of the time" - Alisae
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