Open 212--Hard Boiled Mafia (Game Over)

[Bio Hazard]

Bio Hazard: Something's off. He comes out swinging with his first post, and didn't let up. It could be playstyle, I suppose. When he was scum in our last game, he wasn't nearly as aggressive. So far, he's twisted my words in a strawman, and he seems to be reaching for a case that I just don't see.

Well, of course you don't see the case, because it's about you.

@McGriddle - WTF? Since when does playing protown count as a scumtell?

I would like to echo this question.

[farside22]

MMM: Why would you think nick's post is better then ythan? And what post would you call good that nick made?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

MMM: Why would you think nick's post is better then ythan? And what post would you call good that nick made?

Mostly that he has longer posts, hasn't been attacking RayFrost for no reason, it's not that he has good posts so much as a lack of really bad posts.

roflmao.

Me?

Nervous?

Do you know who you are talking about?

The thought of me being 'nervous' is so laughable that it's pathetic.

'acting out more than usual' is hardly a tell when you have not seen my scum play to determine if I act out more than usual. Your half-baked meta is pathetic.

And ythan being aggressive is part of his style as town or scum, as far as I've seen, so I disagree with that point.

I don't see how pressuring for a lynch is a bad thing.

I also notice a distinct lack of support for your town reads (contrast with your scum reads), care to put them into more detail?

Yeah, um, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. The whole splitting your statements

on separate lines

is really annoying.

And, by you're "Do you know who you are talking about?" comment, I guess you have the impression you are a really cool, together guy. But I'm seeing less of Ford Prefect and more Arthur Dent in your posts. You look like you are trying your best not to look nervous. And the thing about pressuring for a lynch made me laugh. The whole point is that BH has been pressuring for a lynch since his first post. That is a bad thing. As for my town reads, in this case, town is usually just a lack of scumminess, as I said earlier.

[farside22]

You do realize MMM he voted for you for no reason and did a BW vote basically with no reason. When called out he buckled under pressure so I'm trying to understand what in his post was good.

[Bio Hazard]

The whole point is that BH has been pressuring for a lynch since his first post.

I hope everyone sees that this is entirely not true.

[McGriddle]

@McGriddle - WTF? Since when does playing protown count as a scumtell?

The more someone acts like they are pro-town the more likely it is they are scum. Not people who are REALLY playing pro-town. I just know these things. Call it gut if you will.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ farside22: I don't see Nick's vote as scummy. He said it wasn't entirely serious. If he turned it into a big deal, then it would be a scumtell, but he just unvoted casually. I could be way off on this, but I call it like I see it.

[farside22]

@ farside22: I don't see Nick's vote as scummy. He said it wasn't entirely serious. If he turned it into a big deal, then it would be a scumtell, but he just unvoted casually. I could be way off on this, but I call it like I see it.

He didnt' say when he voted for you it wasn't serious. In fact he claimed he found both you and Mind scummy without reason.
In fact I just read Nick in isolation and no where did he allude to not being serious.

I'm calling Nick/MMM scum team right now. So far very weak reason's from MMM with no basis in fact for find Nick not bad.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Just as a place holder if I change my mind.

That was on the original vote. I call that not serious.

MMM has been kind of avoiding any kind of question or not going deep into it, when the 'wagon' started he revenge voted instead of trying to defend himself, and he seems to know more than he should.

Soon after the vote.

And his unvote was clearly triggered by the reaction to his hurry up comment.

So far very weak reason's from MMM with no basis in fact for find Nick not bad.

I didn't find Nick as scummy as Ythan, I admitted that. I also said, in my original post, then when compared with Ythan's play, Nick did look bad. I don't need to prove that Nick's posts were good, I find him scummy.

FoS: farside22

I find it interesting how you decide that I'm scum with Nick solely because I didn't say I found anything scummy about his posts when I voted for him.

[Bio Hazard]

More OMGUS from MMM...

[farside22]

I admitted that. I also said, in my original post,

then when compared with Ythan's play, Nick did look bad

. I don't need to prove that Nick's posts were good, I find him scummy.

you did?

Ythan/NickF227: OK, read in ISO, Ythan is obvious scum. He's overly aggressive, makes posts of little content, and his 'reasoning' for voting RayFrost is very, very, bad.

Nick is better

, but still pressures for a lynch and overreacts when called upon.

I was obviously with my questions trying to find what you saw as better.

That was on the original vote. I call that not serious.

in that same post he found you and mindgamer suspicious. I wouldnt' say that was a non-serious vote.

I find it interesting how you decide that I'm scum with Nick solely because I didn't say I found anything scummy about his posts when I voted for him.

I'm looking at the mod vote count and I see you voting for BH. Soooo did you vote for Nick and I and the mod missed it?

[chauchaudotcom]

Voice =/= vote. And I still don't see what the big deal is. Why would I spend a lot of effort on every comment I make? Heck, what can I even do? All the voters on the Mysterious Mystery Man wagon have given a simple but clear reason. All I can do is ask them a few small questions and deliver some FoS's. Yay. Or I could spend my efforts on a scummy person like Ythan/NickF227. Yeah, that sounds much better.

That's precisely my point. Your VOICE said something pretty damn bold, (there is at least one scum on this wagon) but your VOTE doesn't follow or correlate with that claim. It just seemed like you were trying to stir something up without committing to it.

As for my town reads, in this case, town is usually just a lack of scumminess, as I said earlier.

Then what distinguishes your town and null reads?

There's an understated nervousness to his posts that I don't like.

Examples?

The more someone acts like they are pro-town the more likely it is they are scum. Not people who are REALLY playing pro-town. I just know these things. Call it gut if you will.

How often is your gut right?
How often is your gut wrong?

The answer? 50% for both. Gut is unhelpful.

MMM - How experienced would you say you are with mafia?

[evilsnail]

How are you getting a good vibe from me when I've hardly even posted in this game?

You've posted a reasonable amount. Mostly I've found myself agreeing with your posts. It's not a very strong read or anything, but it was definitely enough to unvote at that point.

What about nick/ythan's posting is scummy to you?

Well, Ythan's vote for you wasn't great. I still don't see the scum tell. Then his semioldguy vote was really OMGUSy and that felt off. As for Nick, his pushing for a lynch vote was pretty scummy (though, in light of his explanation, it doesn't look that bad). I also thought his Night/cop speculation was a bit weird.

[Jeffcole1]

Vote Count 1.13:

NickF227 (5): Bio Hazard, evilsnail, mindgamer, Mysterious Mystery Man, semioldguy
Mindgamer (3): chauchaudotcom, Deer, ortolan
Mysterious Mystery Man (2): farside22, RayFrost
semioldguy (1): McGriddle

Not Voting (1): NickF227

One week left until deadline.

[RayFrost]

Yeah, um, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. The whole splitting your statements

on separate lines

is really annoying.

And, by you're "Do you know who you are talking about?" comment, I guess you have the impression you are a really cool, together guy. But I'm seeing less of Ford Prefect and more Arthur Dent in your posts. You look like you are trying your best not to look nervous. And the thing about pressuring for a lynch made me laugh. The whole point is that BH has been pressuring for a lynch since his first post. That is a bad thing. As for my town reads, in this case, town is usually just a lack of scumminess, as I said earlier.

Annoying != scummy

Try again.

And I'm obviously a really cool guy. I mean, my name has frost in it, how can I

not

be cool? In all seriousness, can you point out any evidence to show that I am, in fact, actively attempting to hide any form of nervousness? Also, would you be willing to prove that I would, in fact, be nervous as scum? I mean, if you think about it, I've played enough scum games to IC based purely off of those. Why would I be nervous about playing as scum? I have experience in doing so, I am not innately a nervous individual, and you haven't really brought any evidence forth that I am, in fact, nervous-posting.

Baseless accusations are scummy.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

I was obviously with my questions trying to find what you saw as better.

That's not what I saw.

I'm calling Nick/MMM scum team right now.

I'm still not sure of what your logic is that groups the two of us together.

ISO Ythan. Then ISO Nick. I see Ythan as scummier, which makes precious little difference seeing as how they have the same role pm. Ythan is far more erratic, whereas Nick made an non-serious vote, and I call it non-serious BECAUSE he expressed suspicion of myself and Mindgamer, then said that it was a "placeholder". I'm not close to being lynched yet, so there was no danger in the vote, Nick admitted it was just a placeholder, so he's not overreacting or misjudging the strength of his vote. I really don't see anything scummy about that. I do think his 'hurry up and lynch' post was scummy, as well as the subsequent unvote.

MMM - How experienced would you say you are with mafia?

I'm not very experienced. A few newbie games a vengeful 5P, and some small games I played/hosted in RL.

In all seriousness, can you point out any evidence to show that I am, in fact, actively attempting to hide any form of nervousness?

(I chose you over [insert majority of player list here] because of secret reasoning that is too awesome to disclose)

reeeeeaaaaaaaaaasooooooooooooniiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiissssssssssssssssss teeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeecccccccccccccccccchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

and I usually say that when YOU DO NOT GIVE ANY

The thought of me being 'nervous' is so laughable that it's pathetic.

And here's an interesting tidbit I found:

active lurking is scummy (it's one of my top scum traits from games I've won as scum...

Now, why would you say that? I can think of two reasons.

1. You are town, and this a rather thin ploy to make you look town.

2. You are scum, and you are using this as a controlled meta, by posting a lot you will convince everyone you are town.

[quote-"chauchaudotcom"]Then what distinguishes your town and null reads?[/quote]

An active player who doesn't make any bad votes or other scumtells is town in my book. A semi-active player who doesn't really comment on the goings-on is null.

And btw, I did vote for Nick last page.

[farside22]

That's not what I saw.

MMM: Why would you think nick's post is better then ythan? And what post would you call good that nick made?

How could you miss it?

ISO Ythan. Then ISO Nick. I see Ythan as scummier, which makes precious little difference seeing as how they have the same role pm. Ythan is far more erratic, whereas Nick made an non-serious vote, and I call it non-serious BECAUSE he expressed suspicion of myself and Mindgamer, then said that it was a "placeholder". I'm not close to being lynched yet, so there was no danger in the vote, Nick admitted it was just a placeholder, so he's not overreacting or misjudging the strength of his vote. I really don't see anything scummy about that. I do think his 'hurry up and lynch' post was scummy, as well as the subsequent unvote.

Not seeing how his vote was not serious. He voted for you over Mind with no reason and then pushed for it. How is that not serious again?

@MMM:
Why are you voting for BH?

[chauchaudotcom]

Well, Ythan's vote for you wasn't great. I still don't see the scum tell. Then his semioldguy vote was really OMGUSy and that felt off.

In terms of the OMGUS. Why Ythan/Nick and not MMM then?

I'm not very experienced. A few newbie games a vengeful 5P, and some small games I played/hosted in RL.

Still, a few newbie games + a vengeful is a decent amount. So how familiar are you with OMGUS?

Also, how are those quotes of Ray showing that he is nervous? I don't see it.

[Mindgamer]

Chau Chau - It seems like he is being so sarcastic to make it look lke he really is town. I have a very opposite way of thinking. The more townie someone looks the more scummy they look to me.

So... how are you going to play this game? Are you going to look for towntells rather than scumtells? Are you going to build cases based on how town people are? Elaborate.

MMM: Why would you think nick's post is better then ythan? And what post would you call good that nick made?

Mostly that he has longer posts

, hasn't been attacking RayFrost for no reason, it's not that he has good posts so much as a lack of really bad posts.

Quantity is quality now?

@McGriddle - WTF? Since when does playing protown count as a scumtell?

The more someone acts like they are pro-town the more likely it is they are scum. Not people who are REALLY playing pro-town.

I just know these things. Call it gut if you will.

What's the difference?

@ farside22:

I don't see Nick's vote as scummy. He said it wasn't entirely serious.

If he turned it into a big deal, then it would be a scumtell, but he just unvoted casually. I could be way off on this, but I call it like I see it.

I disagree with this. A vote without reasoning is always scummy, because there is no reason not to share your reasoning with the town. Scum can get an advantage with this though, because it's easy to come up with a reason that fits the situation perfectly later. Saying it's a joke is one of the worst late reasons. Maybe I would buy it if it included something like , but there is no such indication at all.

Voice =/= vote. And I still don't see what the big deal is. Why would I spend a lot of effort on every comment I make? Heck, what can I even do? All the voters on the Mysterious Mystery Man wagon have given a simple but clear reason. All I can do is ask them a few small questions and deliver some FoS's. Yay. Or I could spend my efforts on a scummy person like Ythan/NickF227. Yeah, that sounds much better.

That's precisely my point. Your VOICE said something pretty damn bold, (there is at least one scum on this wagon) but your VOTE doesn't follow or correlate with that claim. It just seemed like you were trying to stir something up without committing to it.

I use Voice and Vote seperately. Using your Vote only to back up your Voice is a waste of your Vote.

[semioldguy]

@ farside22:

I don't see Nick's vote as scummy. He said it wasn't entirely serious.

If he turned it into a big deal, then it would be a scumtell, but he just unvoted casually. I could be way off on this, but I call it like I see it.

I disagree with this. A vote without reasoning is always scummy, because there is no reason not to share your reasoning with the town. Scum can get an advantage with this though, because it's easy to come up with a reason that fits the situation perfectly later. Saying it's a joke is one of the worst late reasons. Maybe I would buy it if it included something like , but there is no such indication at all.

I partially disagree with this assessment. There are plenty of pro-town reasons to vote without reasoning. One of which would be pressure voting. If reasoning is given with that, then it negates the usefulness of the vote.

[NickF227]

Not seeing how his vote was not serious. He voted for you over Mind with no reason and then pushed for it. How is that not serious again?

Wait wait WHAT? I just said it was a placeholder so I'd have a vote up there, and I just said that I was torn between MMM and mindgamer, and then you just come out and DEMAND explanation on why I choose MMM over mindgamer. And now your asking MMM the same thing. Can I ask YOU why you are voting for MMM?

I use Voice and Vote seperately. Using your Vote only to back up your Voice is a waste of your Vote.

What ever happened to actions speak louder than words?

[Jeffcole1]

Vote Count 1.14:

NickF227 (5): Bio Hazard, evilsnail, mindgamer, Mysterious Mystery Man, semioldguy
Mindgamer (3): chauchaudotcom, Deer, ortolan
Mysterious Mystery Man (2): farside22, RayFrost
semioldguy (1): McGriddle

Not Voting (1): NickF227

Deadline in 6 days.

[RayFrost]

active lurking is scummy (it's one of my top scum traits from games I've won as scum...

Now, why would you say that? I can think of two reasons.

1. You are town, and this a rather thin ploy to make you look town.

2. You are scum, and you are using this as a controlled meta, by posting a lot you will convince everyone you are town.

WROOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGG.

I was using a personal meta reference as a starting place in order to show some support for the active lurking is scummy argument.

Plus, I have to be posting for me to be active lurking, so the quantity of my posts would have no effect on the likelihood of you viewing me as town/scum.

Noice misrepresentation of that, though.

By the way, misrepresentation is scummy.

Moar MMM votes.

[McGriddle]

Chau Chau - It seems like he is being so sarcastic to make it look lke he really is town. I have a very opposite way of thinking. The more townie someone looks the more scummy they look to me.

So... how are you going to play this game? Are you going to look for towntells rather than scumtells? Are you going to build cases based on how town people are? Elaborate.

@McGriddle - WTF? Since when does playing protown count as a scumtell?

The more someone acts like they are pro-town the more likely it is they are scum. Not people who are REALLY playing pro-town.

I just know these things. Call it gut if you will.

What's the difference?

There is a major difference between someone who IS town and someone who is ACTING town. It's kind of obvious to tell.

Player 1: Asks questions and does general scum hunting, while adding personal strategy to the game. IS town

Player 2: Says things like "Well, since I am town..." Or "We will win if we..." The general AtE'ing I have seen so much from scum.

Because after all, scum make it their focus to look like town, and town make it their focus to find scum.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

That's not what I saw.

MMM: Why would you think nick's post is better then ythan? And what post would you call good that nick made?

How could you miss it?

My point was, you didn't seem interested in the reasons. You claimed I was scum based on the fact that I didn't find that one vote scummy. This seems entirely illogical seeing as how I am VOTING that person anyway. The 'placeholder' vote is simply not part of my case.

ISO Ythan. Then ISO Nick. I see Ythan as scummier, which makes precious little difference seeing as how they have the same role pm. Ythan is far more erratic, whereas Nick made an non-serious vote, and I call it non-serious BECAUSE he expressed suspicion of myself and Mindgamer, then said that it was a "placeholder". I'm not close to being lynched yet, so there was no danger in the vote, Nick admitted it was just a placeholder, so he's not overreacting or misjudging the strength of his vote. I really don't see anything scummy about that. I do think his 'hurry up and lynch' post was scummy, as well as the subsequent unvote.

Not seeing how his vote was not serious. He voted for you over Mind with no reason and then pushed for it. How is that not serious again?

The fact that there was no reason for it makes it not serious. He admitted there was no reason for it. I don't like how I am the one defending the vote, you should have questioned Nick about it.

@MMM:
Why are you voting for BH?

I'm voting for Nick.