Mini 891 - British Comedy Mafia (Game Over)

[Ellibereth]

*facepalm*
Hi Deathsauce! We're in MYLO today! Scum haven't killed us because since IF ONE OF US DIES THE OTHER IS CONFIRMED.
Your logic fails.

[DeathSauce]

^^^ Yeah, this is the attitude that S_B has commented on. Your logic is : Because you haven't been NK'ed, you must be town. The other side of that coin, you haven't been NK'ed because you are scum, we apparently aren't allowed to speculate on.

Whose logic fails?

Imaginality, please take a look at and respond to my post 1090.

[Snow_Bunny]

I'm sorry, I was VLA, and I'm still busy as of now.

I will post something tomorrow. Sorry.

[Faraday]

Eh, from my point of view it's pretty simple. The masons are scum.

Trying to convince you, I don't know. I mean DGB and elli are playing as they always do, so there's not a whole lot there, I'm sure you're somewhat aware of their meta, but if you look at the set-up masons just don't make sense (since it seems a roleblocker is unlikely, at this stage anyway). I don't really have a whole lot more to say.

[DrippingGoofball]

Great! And the other scum is Faraday.

Can we please hammer the scum and win this game already?

[Faraday]

Great! And the other scum is Faraday.

Can we please hammer the scum and win this game already?

^^^ hasn't been reading the thread.

[imaginality]

Keen to hear Snow_Bunny's thoughts.

Looking back, I see kiku (known scum) voted BC over Budja in the run-up to the D1 deadline. Probably just trying to stay off a townie lynch. But, if BC was scum, I think she'd more likely have gone for a Budja vote. Her vote on JL shows she's happy to hop onto a wagon (albeit belatedly in that case).

So, currently leaning to the masons being town.

DeathSauce, re. your 'masons were fishing for doc' theory, I said the lack of a claimed doc was 'a problem' with that theory, not 'the only' problem. Another question there is why they'd kill Sanhora the next night rather than try to hit the doc.

[Faraday]

Sanhora was confirmed town. It seems likely they'd want to kill off confirmed town. The doc or any claimed doc wouldn't have been fully confirmed at least.

Budja was obviously getting lynched at that stage, so it could have been a poor attempt at distancing (plus it's obvious the masons weren't getting lynched anyway)

Any comments on the fact sanhora wasn't blocked/my set-up speculation and it not making sense for that many pr's with what we've seen?

[Snow_Bunny]

what were your other protects snow?

One-shot, so I didn't protect anyone else.

Bleh there's not a whole lot from day 1 to inicate china/bc aren't masons. I know they're not, but I don't see anything from the day to indicate it.

Also in terms of possible set-up's

1-shot cop/stumper/doc/masons is way overpowered for town. That's 5 power roles out of 9 for the town. And the stumper/cop/doc are sorta provable and confirmed town masons act pretty much as a 1-shot cop by themselves. Take out the masons and it leaves 3 power roles, which is pretty much the standard for most mini games afaik.

The set-up is crazy if it's like that, unless scum have ridiculous powers, and from what we've seen they don't (iam flipped a goon)

This kind of makes sense. But, with the town roles being only 1-shot, isn't it possible that setup?

Snow_Bunny, if you're around, which pair are you leaning towards as being the scum?

Ah, I'm leaning towards the masons. I mean, it could be a huge and risky gambit, but it could be done. Why? Because, usually, and just usually, town doesn't lynch masons unless there's a strong proof against them (and this isn't the case). A cop, specially a 1-shot cop wouldn't spend his investigation in them, unless there would be lots of suspicions (though I don't think they would know that, but that it's explained by the failed attemp to kill the cop, the only one who could unmask their plan). And, if we add wifom to the soup (from "oh, scum didn't kill us last night to make town think we're the bad guys!"), we have a good gambit.

So, in conclusion, I'm leaning towards the masons. I admit that DGB often acts a bit suspicious for my standards, but I can't just get the idea of a gambit out of my mind.

[imaginality]

At this point, killing one mason confirms the other. Strategically, as long as the PAIR of us is alive, we can be thought of as mason-claiming scums. The scum is trying to exploit that. They don't want to kill me and confirm Elli. Or vice-versa.

My question wasn't about what would/wouldn't happen at this point, though. Obviously now (and last night) it would make no sense for scum to kill one of you when it would confirm the other. My question was about you saying: "No early mason claim needs to be challenged because masons don't make it to end game - they are NK'd or are lynched if the scum doesn't NK." Do you still stand by that attitude to early mason claims? Or to put it another way, if you meant what you said, the conclusion I draw is that you would lynch masons if they claimed early and didn't get killed off by endgame. So, why should we not lynch you?

[imaginality]

Thinking about it, additional points towards mason-scum is it gives Chinaman motive for his "I think this is a vanillaless game" comment (he would have known there would be more non-vanilla claims than usual if they were planning to fakeclaim), and for the MacavityLock nightkill, since he was fairly focused on Chinaman even after his claim, and on BloodCovenant.

Hmm...

[DrippingGoofball]

Sanhora was confirmed town. It seems likely they'd want to kill off confirmed town. The doc or any claimed doc wouldn't have been fully confirmed at least.

Budja was obviously getting lynched at that stage, so it could have been a poor attempt at distancing (plus it's obvious the masons weren't getting lynched anyway)

Any comments on the fact sanhora wasn't blocked/my set-up speculation and it not making sense for that many pr's with what we've seen?

I bet these thoughts and calculations will all be found in your QT when we read it.

"It seems likely that they'd want to kill off confirmed town" - Duh. Except that bumping off one of us gives rise to an extra confirmed townie.

The better plan is to clamor to lynch one of us, then NK the other. Then the game becomes a 2 vs. 2 crapshoot.

From a town's perspective, we're better lynching you, since you're 100% scum, and your death will confirm your scumbuddy DeathSauce. We lynch him tomorrow and win.

[Faraday]

I bet these thoughts and calculations will all be found in your QT when we read it.

It's actually really just common sense, but way to push it as scummy:roll:
Actually that reminds me the scum can obviously daytalk as elli and dgb proved that yesterday. That in and of itself is a powerful enough weapon.

From a town's perspective, we're better lynching you, since you're 100% scum, and your death will confirm your scumbuddy DeathSauce. We lynch him tomorrow and win.

Uh?It's MYLO/Lylo. We have to lynch correctly. From a town perspective it's better to lynch you and not lose the game. I mean I guess we can lynch Elli either, it doesn't matter a whole lot

[Faraday]

This kind of makes sense. But, with the town roles being only 1-shot, isn't it possible that setup?

Actually, yeah but the masons are the only non 1-shot role (obviously you can't have 1-shot masons). I guess from your point of view either the 'masons' look out of place in the set-up due to everyone else having a limited abillity (and their daytalk being stronger than usual) or the masons are there to act as a countermeasure since every pr is one shot. Eh, obviously I know it's the former in that situation but that's basically the 2 scenarios since everyone's claimed.

[DeathSauce]

Just the fact that you have to go back and look at the kiku/BC relationship to try and learn anything about our claimed masons should be clue enough. They've been mostly coasting since they replaced in the belief that they had the game won. Now that there is pressure on them, all I see is flailing and accusations without evidence.

Votes would be helpful, let's get it done.

[Snow_Bunny]

Ah, it's time to toss the dices...

Unvote, vote: DGB

[Ellibereth]

Hey Faraday! I'm playing like I always do? We were only together in Pyp 2 and I don't think my play there and here are similar.

[imaginality]

Rereading day 1 and seeing how hard Chinaman in particular and also BC pushed to get JL lynched makes me think that yep, DS may be right that the masons are scum. I don't think they'd gambit if they're just generic scum, but I think if they are scum masons, they would certainly consider claiming town mason, and they would have strong reason to be worried about a stump-vig hitting either of them.

Also, I think if masons are town, scum would either have killed one of them N1, or if they're not killing them, then they would've expressed more suspicion of them D2 back when there was still more doubt around their claim. DS and Faraday didn't really do that.

Also, there's the VT thing. I think DS and Faraday would have agreed with each other there rather than one say they have it implicit, the other explicit. If DS had also said his was explicit it would have cast more doubt on SB who at that point looked like a possible GF still.

This has been a fairly tricky choice (was tempted to suggest NL again just hoping scum kill me to let Snow_Bunny handle all the pressure of the decision! ) but yeah, I'm happy to go with this.
Here's hoping...

Unvote
Vote: DrippingGoofball

[Ellibereth]

We were town.
DeathFara won.

ugh....

[imaginality]

The balance thing is the other factor. 1-shot cop, doc, vig vs scum-masons and goon seems more balanced than masons being town.

[DrippingGoofball]

Well I'm town.

Good job scum.

[imaginality]

Ah dammit.

[Faraday]

We were town.
DeathFara won.

ugh....

You were actually masons????

[Faraday]

Hey Faraday! I'm playing like I always do? We were only together in Pyp 2 and I don't think my play there and here are similar.

Eh, your play was fairly similiar(ish) (I mean in the main deathsauce was talking about how confident you are as a reason for finding you scummy) and you generally play like that or appear confident from what i've seen

[DrippingGoofball]

We were town.
DeathFara won.

ugh....

You were actually masons????

Like you don't know that for a fact, scum.

Congratulations of pulling the wool over the eyes of some fools.