Mini 945: Mafia in Bawlmer - GAME OVER

[xvart]

Well, the cop knows who not to investigate xD That's not a free pass, however—in fact, it's an easy scum claim, so be extra careful, dramonic.

Vote: dramonic

not for that, but for being the nightmarish nekomata from my game.

Hmmmm... survey says...

Vote: StrangerCoug

xvart.

[StrangerCoug]

Vote: dramonic

We do not feel that millers should be left alive to later cause distraction.

This comes off to me as policy-lynching dramonic for claiming miller. Do you

REALLY

want to give scum an advantage by going after such an easy target so early?

Unvote: dramonic
Vote: Ophanim

You're using weasely wording and hypocrisy here; you're essentially advocating (though you're trying to hide it through wording) policy lynching someone who you believe to be policy lynching without understand their motivations.

That I was being on the jumpy side is conceded, but I consider policy-lynching a player without a better option out there as scummy.

That being said, had you not just randomly and baselessly started jumping to conclusions, you would realize that there are only two possible motivations for claiming miller:

1. Actual miller, which in my opinion should not exist in a normal game (unless the definition of normal has

significantly

shifted since the time of my predecessor account)

I wouldn't be throwing a miller in a normal game either, but MeMe rarely and I never do normality checks on games, and I didn't set out to play mod-WIFOM games.

2. Someone trying not to get investigated by a cop (also known as "scum", since we can further infer that the only person who would fear a cop investigation aside from an

unclaimed

miller would logically be someone else who would come up guilty)

I'm in no position to counter this, but I have no real read on dramonic.

Either way, we can be assured that by going after dramonic (until a better target arises) we are improving our day 1 lynch by lowering the chance of hitting an actual power role while subsequently increasing our chance of hitting scum by narrowing people's possible thought processes onto a town/scum binary.

Why am I not a better target since you accused me of policy-lynching players that policy-lynch? To me, being hypocritical is scummier than claiming miller.

Aren't Millers usually left thinking they are a vanilla townie?

No. There's actually been quite the debate over whether or not that would be considered bastard modding.

I stuck such a miller in SWN I, which I advertise as bastard-modded (pretty tame at that, though).

[Ophanim]

Vote: dramonic

We do not feel that millers should be left alive to later cause distraction.

This comes off to me as policy-lynching dramonic for claiming miller. Do you

REALLY

want to give scum an advantage by going after such an easy target so early?

Unvote: dramonic
Vote: Ophanim

You're using weasely wording and hypocrisy here; you're essentially advocating (though you're trying to hide it through wording) policy lynching someone who you believe to be policy lynching without understand their motivations.

That I was being on the jumpy side is conceded, but I consider policy-lynching a player without a better option out there as scummy.

So wait, you want me to wait until there's a better option than policy lynching to push forth a policy lynch?

Does that make any sense to you whatsoever?

That being said, had you not just randomly and baselessly started jumping to conclusions, you would realize that there are only two possible motivations for claiming miller:

1. Actual miller, which in my opinion should not exist in a normal game (unless the definition of normal has

significantly

shifted since the time of my predecessor account)

I wouldn't be throwing a miller in a normal game either, but MeMe rarely and I never do normality checks on games, and I didn't set out to play mod-WIFOM games.

So because the possibility exists we should ignore it because "you don't want to go there"?

2. Someone trying not to get investigated by a cop (also known as "scum", since we can further infer that the only person who would fear a cop investigation aside from an

unclaimed

miller would logically be someone else who would come up guilty)

I'm in no position to counter this, but I have no real read on dramonic.

This isn't a matter of you having a read. This is a matter of you agreeing or disagreeing with my logic.

Either way, we can be assured that by going after dramonic (until a better target arises) we are improving our day 1 lynch by lowering the chance of hitting an actual power role while subsequently increasing our chance of hitting scum by narrowing people's possible thought processes onto a town/scum binary.

Why am I not a better target since you accused me of policy-lynching players that policy-lynch? To me, being hypocritical is scummier than claiming miller.

Because to me, hypocrisy is human.

Aren't Millers usually left thinking they are a vanilla townie?

No. There's actually been quite the debate over whether or not that would be considered bastard modding.

I stuck such a miller in SWN I, which I advertise as bastard-modded (pretty tame at that, though).

So because it's in a bastard-mod game it should be in a normal game?

Your logic sucks. Try harder.

[StrangerCoug]

Vote: dramonic

We do not feel that millers should be left alive to later cause distraction.

This comes off to me as policy-lynching dramonic for claiming miller. Do you

REALLY

want to give scum an advantage by going after such an easy target so early?

Unvote: dramonic
Vote: Ophanim

You're using weasely wording and hypocrisy here; you're essentially advocating (though you're trying to hide it through wording) policy lynching someone who you believe to be policy lynching without understand their motivations.

That I was being on the jumpy side is conceded, but I consider policy-lynching a player without a better option out there as scummy.

So wait, you want me to wait until there's a better option than policy lynching to push forth a policy lynch?

Does that make any sense to you whatsoever?

Of course it doesn't. The better options should go first, then the policy lynches.

That being said, had you not just randomly and baselessly started jumping to conclusions, you would realize that there are only two possible motivations for claiming miller:

1. Actual miller, which in my opinion should not exist in a normal game (unless the definition of normal has

significantly

shifted since the time of my predecessor account)

I wouldn't be throwing a miller in a normal game either, but MeMe rarely and I never do normality checks on games, and I didn't set out to play mod-WIFOM games.

So because the possibility exists we should ignore it because "you don't want to go there"?

No; I don't get what I want. I do, however, get to use my brain in determining whether we should pursue dramonic (and so do you). My brain says now is not the time.

2. Someone trying not to get investigated by a cop (also known as "scum", since we can further infer that the only person who would fear a cop investigation aside from an

unclaimed

miller would logically be someone else who would come up guilty)

I'm in no position to counter this, but I have no real read on dramonic.

This isn't a matter of you having a read. This is a matter of you agreeing or disagreeing with my logic.

I thought "I'm in no position to counter this" implied "I agree because I have no reason to disagree."

Aren't Millers usually left thinking they are a vanilla townie?

No. There's actually been quite the debate over whether or not that would be considered bastard modding.

I stuck such a miller in SWN I, which I advertise as bastard-modded (pretty tame at that, though).

So because it's in a bastard-mod game it should be in a normal game?

When the hell did I say that roles that are associated with bastard-mod games should be put in normal games? That was in response to Sidekick's curiousity and had nothing to do with my view on dramonic.

I love how you twist what I'm saying and take me out of context.

[Cyberbob]

I hate timezones sometimes, all the American players are most active while I'm asleep so I always wake up to heaps of posts.

Vote: StrangerCoug

for the time being, I don't like his little "Well, the cop knows who not to investigate xD" line or the "so be extra careful, dramonic" line from the post in which he ended up... voting for dramonic. That's power role direction and coaching right there.

Regarding dramonic, unless Coug is lynched/killed and flips scum (in which case we'd have a definite link based on Coug's posting) I have no problems with letting him live or die on his own merits. I would not support letting him live until the endgame however.

[dramonic]

I would not support letting him live until the endgame however.

works for me.

[Sidekick]

Well, the cop knows who not to investigate xD That's not a free pass, however—in fact, it's an easy scum claim, so be extra careful, dramonic.

Vote: dramonic

not for that, but for being the nightmarish nekomata from my game.

Hmmmm... survey says...

Vote: StrangerCoug

xvart.

Hi. Just stopping by before I go to sleep, to tell you: Your username is already attached to every post you make. Yeah, right there on the leftside of it. It says vartx. You don't need to add your name to your post, we know who you are. Just saying. Incase you didn't notice or something, wouldn't want you to look silly.

[Sidekick]

EBOWP: xvart**
Really need to get some sleep, 4 am way too late to try to be doing the thinking things.

[Apayah]

I wouldn't support a Dramonic lynch at this point. Claiming miller is a good way to get the heat on you and people tend to not believe a miller claim when you're in danger of being lynched anyway, so it makes sense for an actual miller to claim early. However that doesn't rule out the possibility of scum fake claiming so:

I would not support letting him live until the endgame however.

[MacavityLock]

Vote: Sidekick

for showing up to the thread and adding literally nothing to the game.

[xvart]

Wow, quote pyramids and quote walls on page two? Does anyone know of other mini's that have had a miller?

Hi. Just stopping by before I go to sleep, to tell you: Your username is already attached to every post you make. Yeah, right there on the leftside of it. It says vartx. You don't need to add your name to your post, we know who you are. Just saying. Incase you didn't notice or something, wouldn't want you to look silly.

Hi Sidekick. Nice to meet you. Thanks for letting me know; my computer monitor does not show the left two inches of anything displayed, so maybe not seeing anyone's name is why I have struggled so much keeping people straight in mafia games.

xvart.

[Chevre]

late confirm, sorry!

So dramonic claims miller, blah blah blah, but then StrangerCoug says this:

Well, the cop knows who not to investigate xD That's not a free pass, however—in fact, it's an easy scum claim,

so be extra careful, dramonic.

I find the bolded part really odd. Why would StrangerCoug want to warn dramonic to be careful? This does not follow, and seems like a good place to start.

Vote: StrangerCoug

We do not feel that millers should be left alive to later cause distraction.

First, multiple-personality much?
Second, Millers cause more distraction earlier in the game, because everyone has to decide what their stance is on miller claims.

This comes off to me as policy-lynching dramonic for claiming miller. Do you REALLY want to give scum an advantage by going after such an easy target so early?

Maybe a little overreactive/early for this, but this could possibly be a further link between a possible SC/dramonic scumduo.

So because it's in a bastard-mod game it should be in a normal game?

Your logic sucks. Try harder.

I think you've pushed your attack on StrangerCoug a little too far here. This doesn't even look remotely suspicious to me.

---

I'm impressed by the action in this game already. I have a scum-list and it's only page two!

In order of scumminess.

1. StrangerCoug
2. Ophanim (just barely under SC)
3. Dramonic

I'm not even considering lurking yet because it is so early in the game.

[DiamondCrash]

It sucks being in a different time zone.

Vote: dramonic

We do not feel that millers should be left alive to later cause distraction.

This comes off to me as policy-lynching dramonic for claiming miller. Do you

REALLY

want to give scum an advantage by going after such an easy target so early?

Unvote: dramonic

Is it really a scum advantage at this stage? Surely we're just RVSing for the moment, with a scattering of light justification?

So because it's in a bastard-mod game it should be in a normal game?

Your logic sucks. Try harder.

He didn't say that. He was merely stating he had one. Your logic sucks. Try harder.

4 am way too late to try to be doing the thinking things.

I'd call that early. What the funk are you doing up at four in the morning?

Maybe a little overreactive/early for this, but this could possibly be a further link between a possible SC/dramonic scumduo.

1. Choice of wording, mah boi. Maybe, could, possibly? You're covering your arse in case someone decides to say that it is too early and that you are overreacting. Which you are. So let's take out that bit...

This is a further link between a possible SC/dramonic scumduo.

2. So, attacking someone means a scum buddy? In fact, I'd hardly call that attacking, merely making a point, from the looks of it. Plus, further link implies you think that this post is the first sign;

Well, the cop knows who not to investigate xD That's not a free pass, however—in fact, it's an easy scum claim, so be extra careful, dramonic.

based on the last 5 words. However, I have a different theory. Normal games are normal. SC is making the assumption that there is a cop, even though you can't be sure. However, by using the word "the" in his post implies there is one. So, therefore, I propose this. Due to the fact that by the wording of his post, he knows there's a cop...

SC is the cop.

Anyone have any problems with that theory?

[Cyberbob]

Why the hell would you be wanting to expose a powerrole?

Unvote, Vote: DiamondCrash

[DiamondCrash]

Why the hell would you be wanting to expose a powerrole?

It is but a theory.

[Cyberbob]

And the motivation behind the theory aimed at exposing a powerrole?

[DiamondCrash]

Promoting discussion, actually.

[Cyberbob]

Discussion about what? Powerroles and who might have one? How does that help the town exactly?

[StrangerCoug]

I hate timezones sometimes, all the American players are most active while I'm asleep so I always wake up to heaps of posts.

Vote: StrangerCoug

for the time being, I don't like his little "Well, the cop knows who not to investigate xD" line or the "so be extra careful, dramonic" line from the post in which he ended up... voting for dramonic. That's power role direction and coaching right there.

Regarding dramonic, unless Coug is lynched/killed and flips scum (in which case we'd have a definite link based on Coug's posting) I have no problems with letting him live or die on his own merits. I would not support letting him live until the endgame however.

The vote for dramonic was a random vote because I did not, and still do not, feel it justified to vote dramonic just for claiming miller. Also, for me to be directing power roles and not dramonic requires there to be an idiotic cop in this game, for which there is no evidence.

Well, the cop knows who not to investigate xD That's not a free pass, however—in fact, it's an easy scum claim,

so be extra careful, dramonic.

I find the bolded part really odd. Why would StrangerCoug want to warn dramonic to be careful? This does not follow, and seems like a good place to start.

Vote: StrangerCoug

You quoted part of the answer, the rest should be in my defense of Cyberbob. I will gladly answer anything outstanding regarding dramonic, however.

Vote: dramonic

We do not feel that millers should be left alive to later cause distraction.

This comes off to me as policy-lynching dramonic for claiming miller. Do you

REALLY

want to give scum an advantage by going after such an easy target so early?

Unvote: dramonic

Is it really a scum advantage at this stage? Surely we're just RVSing for the moment, with a scattering of light justification?

At this exact moment, not really, but if dramonic's lynch goes through and he flips what he says, scum ends up benefiting a

LOT.

Yes, dramonic should probably die at some point. No, he shouldn't die right now.

This is a further link between a possible SC/dramonic scumduo.

2. So, attacking someone means a scum buddy? In fact, I'd hardly call that attacking, merely making a point, from the looks of it. Plus, further link implies you think that this post is the first sign;

Well, the cop knows who not to investigate xD That's not a free pass, however—in fact, it's an easy scum claim, so be extra careful, dramonic.

based on the last 5 words. However, I have a different theory. Normal games are normal. SC is making the assumption that there is a cop, even though you can't be sure. However, by using the word "the" in his post implies there is one. So, therefore, I propose this. Due to the fact that by the wording of his post, he knows there's a cop...

SC is the cop.

Anyone have any problems with that theory?

I have a problem with that theory: Why do you want to fish for my role?

Unvote: Ophanim

and demote to an

HoS
Vote: DiamondCrash

[MacavityLock]

Promoting discussion, actually.

I agree with CyberBob. What is the purpose of said discussion? What are the potential end results?

[xvart]

The vote for dramonic was a random vote because I did not, and still do not, feel it justified to vote dramonic just for claiming miller.

Uh... Excuse me? That is a load of crap. Your "random vote" coincidentally fell on the same person you were discussing, who also just happens to have some degree of scumminess? How exactly did you decide on dramonic for your random vote?

And, a random vote after quote walls and quote pyramids of dialogue? Not buying that for a second. I almost said something the first time you made that claim but I decided to see if you would try and justify it later.

There is nothing about the vote that was random and everyone knows it.

xvart.

[MacavityLock]

And, a random vote after quote walls and quote pyramids of dialogue? Not buying that for a second. I almost said something the first time you made that claim but I decided to see if you would try and justify it later.

What random vote are you talking about here?

[xvart]

And, a random vote after quote walls and quote pyramids of dialogue? Not buying that for a second. I almost said something the first time you made that claim but I decided to see if you would try and justify it later.

What random vote are you talking about here?

Whoops. Sorry, strike that part. I got the whole thread jumbled in my head. I feel really stupid.

xvart.

[StrangerCoug]

The vote for dramonic was a random vote because I did not, and still do not, feel it justified to vote dramonic just for claiming miller.

Uh... Excuse me? That is a load of crap. Your "random vote" coincidentally fell on the same person you were discussing, who also just happens to have some degree of scumminess? How exactly did you decide on dramonic for your random vote?

I random voted dramonic for being the arsonist in the game I just finished. (Before it happens, go through the roles of SWN II before telling me I changed my story on why I picked dramonic.) There is clearly no basis for that, but as for the miller claim, I also have a neutral read on dramonic, something I've been pushing forever.

And, a random vote after quote walls and quote pyramids of dialogue? Not buying that for a second. I almost said something the first time you made that claim but I decided to see if you would try and justify it later.

I did not random vote after quote walls and quote pyramids of dialogue. Pay attention.

[xvart]

The vote for dramonic was a random vote because I did not, and still do not, feel it justified to vote dramonic just for claiming miller.

Uh... Excuse me? That is a load of crap.

Your "random vote" coincidentally fell on the same person you were discussing, who also just happens to have some degree of scumminess?

How exactly did you decide on dramonic for your random vote?

And, a random vote after quote walls and quote pyramids of dialogue? Not buying that for a second. I almost said something the first time you made that claim but I decided to see if you would try and justify it later.

There is nothing about the vote that was random and everyone knows it.

Okay, my apologies StrangerCoug. I jumped the gun a little and my tone was a little too strong. I still find it coincidental that your vote was random, but not to the degree of my original a-hole post.

xvart.