Open 212--Hard Boiled Mafia (Game Over)

[McGriddle]

Nick and McG both voting with no reason. McG played this way in another game where he just floated and was town. He is going to be one of those I will never have a good read on.

Just how I like it

@everyone else holding this against him
What exactly makes his OMGUS scummy to you?

all OMGUS is scummy to me.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

1) your lack of explanantion on what about Nik was fine.

it's not that he has good posts so much as a lack of really bad posts.

I did? Where?

I'm calling Nick/MMM scum team right now.

MMM contradiction and reasoning for finding Nick's post not bad is horrible logic.

3) you saying it's not a serious vote but when a player says they find 2 players scummy it's a bit serious in my view

Just as a place holder if I change my mind.

Wait wait WHAT? I just said it was a placeholder so I'd have a vote up there, and I just said that I was torn between MMM and mindgamer, and then you just come out and DEMAND explanation on why I choose MMM over mindgamer.

I don't like people using generic tells like this as a basis for scum hunting. It is both easy and convenient to hide behind such tells due to a wide acceptance of the tell. Please explain the motivation you see behind this OMGUS voting, and spare me a cookie-cutter response.

all OMGUS is scummy to me.

[farside22]

You say that I used 'horrible logic' in declaring Nick's vote unscummy.

Where did I say the above ^

You should be reading the post instead of just quoting everything above.

[farside22]

Also MMM if a post isn't good and it's not fine what exactly is the post?

The place holder comment that Nick makes is obviously not what I'm refering to in my post. And doesn't mean it's not serious.

3) you saying it's not a serious vote but when a player says they find 2 players scummy it's a bit serious in my view

This means whether it's a place holder or not he (nick) seriously thought one of MMM or Mind is scum.

[semioldguy]

all OMGUS is scummy to me.

And your vote could be argued as OMGUS too. Mysterious Mystery Man pegged a gut scum read on your player slot, yet you vote for him. Is your own vote scummy to you? Care to give a better explanation than "all OMGUS is scummy to me"? I doubt that you actually believe your current explanation. If you do believe it, then

why

is all OMGUS scummy to you.

@Mysterious Mystery Man
I don't understand your above post. What are you trying to say/convey with your quoting?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ farside22:

MMM contradiction and reasoning for finding Nick's post not bad is horrible logic.

As I quoted earlier.

Also MMM if a post isn't good and it's not fine what exactly is the post?

I'm sorry, what?

This means whether it's a place holder or not he (nick) seriously thought one of MMM or Mind is scum.

The key point being 'ONE OF'. It was obvious from the post that he did not completely believe I was scum. He wanted a vote on somebody, I don't know why, but he did. I feel really weird trying to explain another player's motives. I shouldn't be answering for Nick. I stated my case: I don't believe the vote was serious, and I don't believe it's a scumtell. Now, if Nick pops up and says, no MMM, you're wrong, I was totally serious, then I guess you're right. But all the evidence says that Nick wasn't serious. I don't understand why this is of such interest to you. Why does it matter if we disagree on a scumtell? I took the placeholder comment to mean the vote wasn't serious. You don't think that's the case. So what's the problem?

@ semioldguy:

That was meant for McGriddle. He seems to take pride in lurking, and I find his behaviour scummy. I find it interesting that despite your specific request to avoid cookie-cutter responses, he gives one anyway.

[farside22]

If Nicks' post is not good and it's not bad what is his post if not fine MMM?

I find it interesting because I beleive you are scum together and could be bussing. I want all to see the contradictions.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

If Nicks' post is not good and it's not bad what is his post if not fine MMM?

I find it interesting because I beleive you are scum together and could be bussing. I want all to see the contradictions.

I see Nick's initial vote as not scummy. Not exactly a good move, but not scummy. The subsequent pushing for a lynch, unvote, and revote, are scummy.

Why do you say we are busing? What led you to that conclusion? Also, what contradictions have I made?

[farside22]

Ythan/NickF227: OK, read in ISO, Ythan is obvious scum. He's overly aggressive, makes posts of little content, and his 'reasoning' for voting RayFrost is very, very, bad. Nick is better, but still pressures for a lynch and overreacts when called upon.

Why I see a buss number 1

Doesn't explain how ythan is overagressive. Calls Nick not bad and better then ythan. Points out the obvious that has been said by others.
Also stating that Nick's post are not bad in regards to ythan even though he unvoted do to pressure means his post are scummy or bad and not okay.

Contradiction #2 in regards to Nick's post

Mostly that he has longer posts, hasn't been attacking RayFrost for no reason, it's not that he has good posts so much as a lack of really bad posts.

Still this doesn't explain who nick is okay.

Now calls the unvote from nick as casual contradiction #3

@ farside22: I don't see Nick's vote as scummy. He said it wasn't entirely serious. If he turned it into a big deal, then it would be a scumtell, but he just unvoted casually. I could be way off on this, but I call it like I see it.

Wasn't this the main reason he is scummy to most people including MMM?

And here we go back to calling it scummy

Soon after the vote.

And his unvote was clearly triggered by the reaction to his hurry up comment.

Nicks vote on MMM for no reason is why I see them together. His unvote is just a pressure weak I'm scum I folded tell.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Um...

OK. I don't see any contradictions in those posts. As for busing, well, I find Nick/Ythan scummy. If you see it as busing, that implies that you must find Nick/Ythan scummy as well. But I haven't seen much to indicate that.

Still this doesn't explain who nick is okay.

I said that Nick looked better in relation to Ythan, and gave my reasoning why.

Wasn't this the main reason he is scummy to most people including MMM?

I never said the vote was part of my reasoning. As for other people, you just gave me heck for using the same tells that other people found scummy. So far, I count one contradiction you've made.

And here we go back to calling it scummy

How does that quote imply I found the vote scummy? I said I found the unvote scummy.

Still not seeing any contradictions I've made. Your case is poorly put together, with barely a shred of evidence to support your claims.

Nicks vote on MMM for no reason is why I see them together.

I don't get that. Nick and myself are the only bandwagons going anywhere. That vote was likely just scummy self-preservation.

[chauchaudotcom]

chauchaudotcom: What makes you feel MMM post is genuine?

He was a lot more clear about the real reasoning's behind his vote. Plus the main reason I was all over him was because of his headbutting with Frost. But this statement:

It's fine if you don't agree, but you've made it out as if I've built a huge case on him. I haven't, if RayFrost hadn't questioned me about it, it wouldn't have been a big deal.

Actually made me rethink things a bit. Overall, I feel like I may have gotten caught up too much in the little details and tunneled on MMM a bit. His play today has been poor but now I'm thinking he may really just be frustrated newb town (which was the initial read I had on him earlier d1).

Farside - All of your points against MMM seem to rely on whether or not Nick flips scum. So wouldn't Nick be a much better vote? Particularly given how scummy you seem to find Nick and Ythan?

[farside22]

I never said the vote was part of my reasoning. As for other people, you just gave me heck for using the same tells that other people found scummy. So far, I count one contradiction you've made.

Now I know your not reading. I'm talking about his unvote:

MMM wrote:

Ythan/NickF227: OK, read in ISO, Ythan is obvious scum. He's overly aggressive, makes posts of little content, and his 'reasoning' for voting RayFrost is very, very, bad. Nick is better, but still pressures for a lynch and

overreacts when called upon.

If the bold is not about
Then you state this:

Mysterious Mystery Man wrote:
@ farside22: I don't see Nick's vote as scummy. He said it wasn't entirely serious. If he turned it into a big deal, then it would be a scumtell,

but he just unvoted casually

Then here

MMM wrote:

Soon after the vote.

And his unvote was clearly triggered by the reaction to his hurry up comment.

Goes from looks bad, to calling it causla to saying he was triggered by the pressure.

@Chau: I learned from ABR if you think 2 people are scum together you go for the person you see as the head of the snake. IE the smarter person who will manipute and lead. I read MMM as that type.

[Mindgamer]

I'm verry sorry, but I will have to replace out. Real life has taken a very, very awful turn so I have too much on my mind. This game is only at Day 1 so a replacement won't damage the game too much. I hope you can understand.

I wish you all good luck in the rest of the game.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ farside22: I think Nick's unvote was scummy, and the quotes you selected don't challenge that. The first quote illustrates why I saw Nick's original vote as non-serious. And I don't see how saying that the unvote was triggered by anything affects it being a scumtell.

[Jeffcole1]

Vote Count 1.19:

NickF227 (5): Bio Hazard, evilsnail, mindgamer, Mysterious Mystery Man, semioldguy
Mysterious Mystery Man (4): farside22, McGriddle, NickF227, RayFrost
Mindgamer (2): Deer, ortolan

Not Voting (1): chauchaudotcom

Mindgamer's request for replacement has been acknowledged.

[evilsnail]

Today is the deadline and we need a majority to avoid No Lynch. I'm willing to vote both Nick and MMM to get a lynch.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ evilsnail: Who do you find scummier?

Anyway, I still see Nick as scummiest. If we had more time, I might look into farside22 and mindgamer some more, but I'm comfortable enough with Nick for day 1.

[RayFrost]

unvote, vote: nickf227

1. secret reasons

2. deadline, majority = good

3. I want to be surprising.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Nick is at L-1, FYI.

[farside22]

Nick should claim. Is today deadline or tomorrow?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Today, at 9 pm EST. Nick's due for a prod as well.

[farside22]

I can give it a few more hours. I think either an MMM or Nick lynch is informative in my view at this point.

Mod: prod Nick

[farside22]

Not sure if I'm late mod stated we may get an extension do to replacements.

Mod: Extension still happening?

[chauchaudotcom]

Honestly, extensions at this point is just going to hurt the game. This day has already dragged on really long and any longer isn't going to help much. I'd really like a flip at this point.

[chauchaudotcom]

I have to go to class now and seeing how deadline is in fifteen I doubt anything is going to miraculously change in the next fifteen minutes. So:

Vote: Nick