Newbie 906 - Game Over!

[jmurph3]

you were online before Perez was. o.O

And I said I was waiting for a vote count to see if my vote would put Ray at L-1 or would hammer. Then I left to eat lunch, came back, and Perez had already hammered.

[Kison]

Day Two's Final Vote Count

RayFrost (

4

) : smashbro_of_the_SSS, PranaDevil, Zorblag, Perez
Zorblag (

1

) : jmurph3
Skill006 (

1

) : RayFrost

Not Voting (

1

) : Skill006

With

7

alive,

4

votes were required to lynch.

[Kison]

"We won't even need a rope for this one!"
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RayFrost, Vanilla Townie, has been lynched during Day Two.

It is now Night Two.

Night actions are due within

72

hours.[/area]

[Kison]

Another dreadful day! Another terrible loss! This time, the victim was discovered frozen solid in a block of ice.
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At least that menacing grin isn't going anywhere.

PranaDevil, Vanilla Townie, has been killed during Night Two.

It is now Day Three.

With

5

alive, it will take

3

votes to lynch.[/area]

[jmurph3]

Unless there's no kill tonight tomorrow should start out with a mass claim and no discussion of suspicions until it's over (there's no reason to give the scum information to help tailor a claim to people's thoughts.) Claims should neither be automatically believed nor disbelieved but if there are conflicting claims that's where the lynch should focus.

Following Zorb's suggestion, which I agree with, and now that we are, in fact, in Lylo, my claim: VT.

[jmurph3]

Ugh, you can tell it's been awhile...

@Mod: Can you fix the quote in my previous post? Thanks!

[Zorblag]

@jmurph3, the most popular way to do a massclaim around here is to popcorn it where the person who claims then chooses the person who claims next. There are other methods but this one tends to reduce the degree to which the mafia can influence the order and is also fairly easy to get through quickly. Typically the town votes for who they'd like to see go first to start the process but as you've already made your claim there's no need for that.

At this point who would you most like to see claim next?

If someone does claim a power role they should give their full results with the claim. Everyone who hasn't claimed yet should then either say they are that power role or they are not that power role (e.g. if it's a doctor claim those who haven't claimed yet should claim to be a doctor or not a doctor but nothing about whether they're a cop.) If no one counter claims then the mass claim proceeds as normal. If someone does then we stop the claim process and evaluate the conflicting information.

In this case this is all less vital than it would be in other games where there had been less claims ahead of time but there's no reason not to do things the right way.

As a reminder, we should hold off on talking about suspicions or the game in general until after the claims are done.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[jmurph3]

@jmurph3, the most popular way to do a massclaim around here is to popcorn it where the person who claims then chooses the person who claims next. There are other methods but this one tends to reduce the degree to which the mafia can influence the order and is also fairly easy to get through quickly. Typically the town votes for who they'd like to see go first to start the process but as you've already made your claim there's no need for that.

Whoops, didn't realize that was the normal operating procedure I figured it would just be a good idea to get things rolling.

At this point who would you most like to see claim next?

I'm not sure what reasoning is best for me to use for this, so for the moment I'll keep my reasons why to myself and say that Zorb, I'd like to see you claim next.

[Zorblag]

I'm (still) a vanilla townie.

Perez, please claim next.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Perez]

I am a vanilla townie.

@jmurph3, the most popular way to do a massclaim around here is to popcorn it where the person who claims then chooses the person who claims next. There are other methods but this one tends to reduce the degree to which the mafia can influence the order and is also fairly easy to get through quickly. Typically the town votes for who they'd like to see go first to start the process but as you've already made your claim there's no need for that.

With regards massclaiming, is this something that happens during LyLo or just when the numbers are so few? This is something new to me but I see why it would help to get power roles to claim and state what they've done since in this case there are two scum left and those roles should oust themselves anyways to provoke scum to claim as well. Is there another situation instead of LyLo where this would be a smart idea? (I ask for my other groups' games which have surprisingly gotten popular).

Almost forgot:

Skill006 please claim your role next.

[Skill006]

...O_O
He was frozen in a block of ice...I wonder if prana has seen that yet XD

Anyway, like I said earlier, I am a vanilla townie. Nothing special here.

That leaves just smashbro to claim.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

Hey guys, Vanilla Townie too, big surprise lol.

but anways, I'm going to be

V/LA from Thursday till Sunday

[Zorblag]

OK, so now we know that we don't have any town power roles. I suppose the good news is that the scum haven't confused the game at all with any fake claims and we do know that we're up against a roleblocker and goon combination. In scum teams with a roleblocker and a goon we can expect the goon to be a bit protective of the roleblocker just because if there were two power roles the scum needs the roleblocker around to have a reasonable chance at winning. Unfortunately until we get a flip to work with that doesn't actually do us that much good.

Both the night kills have been fairly unsurprising ones thus far. No one really suspected PaltryExcuse at the end of day one. PranaDevil, even though both smashbro_of_the_SSS and I had applied a little pressure towards the end of day two, was in a similar position. For me personally that means that I have to decide how likely it is that the night kills were a matter of simply eliminating those viewed as most likely to be town as opposed to potential threats. Everyone should at this point be taking a look at why you are alive in LyLo. From here on out the scum just need one mislynch (which in can come the first time one town member votes for another) so we need to be deliberate with our voting from here on out.

@jmurph3, why was it that you chose me to claim next when I had already claimed previously?

@Perez, why did you choose Skill006 to claim next when she had already claimed previously?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Skill006]

The Ray lynch felt rushed, and almost like a policy lynch.

If there's any kind of case I'm missing, please let me know. And also, I don't think my question got answered yesterday. My question was,

"why is changing playstyle scummy?"

Right at the moment, I feel smashbro is most likely scum.

I'll explain why later, just wanted to throw that out there. Now, there's something I realized I have to go do right now, so I'll be seeing everybody later ^_^

[jmurph3]

@jmurph3, why was it that you chose me to claim next when I had already claimed previously?

Honestly, I didn't realize that you had already claimed. I know that Apathy claimed on D1, but I was unaware that you yourself claimed beyond that. I also thought that as the (or one of the) most experienced person(s) in this game, you might be the one most comfortable with claiming a power role, whether because you actually had one, or, which I thought more likely at the time, because, as scum, you would be the one with no qualms about false-claiming a power role. As it was, you didn't, but that's what I was looking for at the time.

As it stands for today, I'm not sure who I want to focus my suspicions on. For Zorb, there's a lot of animosity that carries over from D2, but looking back, I'm not as bothered currently by what Prana and I saw as WIFOM. Rereading it, there's actually a lot of valuable stuff in there, allowing me to offer a tentative (and I mean tentative) town-ish read on Zorb.

I'm getting a pretty heavy scum vibe from Skill, and I'm leaning at the moment towards Perez as being her scum partner, in spite of the many reasons why that seems contrary. Firstly, while Phaen voted during D2 for Skill, she disappeared immediately afterwords without sticking around to defend her vote or to keep pushing for a Skill vote. Then, when Perez came in, he gave a weak argument as to why Skill could be scummy without voting for her. Skill's kind of jumped around from person to person without ever really landing on anyone, and the case on Phaen, despite being pushed by her to a certain extent, never really got to the point where Skill would've been nervous about pushing a lynch on her scumbuddy. And now, despite the suspicion Skill apparently had on Phaen/Perez from D2, she takes her suspicions a different direction on D3 by focusing on smash, again without voting.

Thus, I shall say

vote: Skill

.

[Zorblag]

Right, apparently I need to emphasize this more.

From here on out the scum just need one mislynch (which in can come the first time one town member votes for another) so we need to be deliberate with our voting from here on out.

Today people should not be casting votes until they're reasonably certain that they're casting it on scum. Basically if you're not ready to lynch you shouldn't be voting in LyLo.

At this point if jmurph3 and Skill006 are both town the scum can win as soon as they can coordinate a quick hammer. I don't actually think it's at all likely that the scum team is smashbro_of_the_SSS and Perez so in this particular case it's unlikely to lose the game but that doesn't make the jmurph3 vote any better offhand.

@jmurph3, Apathy and I are playing the same spot in this game. If he had lied about his role day one it would have absolutely been imperative for me to clear that up then. In general lying about your role is a great way to get lynched and my player spot would have been even more compromised than it was by the rest of his play. As it was, I confirmed the role shortly after replacing in (Post 583) so that there wouldn't be any confusion. Had anyone replaced in that long ago in the situation I did and then tried to claim a power role today they should almost certainly be lynched today.

Your case on me yesterday, unlike PranaDevil's, was based on a fair amount more than just WIFOM. There were a number of aspects of my play which you didn't like and which you had rejected my most recent explanations for. I'd like to hear why you're no longer thinking that they should put me in your top two for suspects.

It looks like you're trying to say that Skill006 was never really in danger of getting a Phaen partner lynched by keeping her vote there yesterday. I very much disagree with that. Until the last batch of replacements and the deadline extension I think it was pretty clear that Phaen was a (and probably the) top lynch candidate. Skill006 lobbied against the replacements and deadline extension (and then got flak for it.) I also pretty strongly object to not voting right away in LyLo being a point against someone but I suspect that the start of my post covered that.

Right now I'm tired. I'll need to look at things again later but nothing past what I've said right here won't keep till tomorrow.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Perez]

@Perez, why did you choose Skill006 to claim next when she had already claimed previously?

I actually completely forgot about that. I thought she hadn't claimed yet. I'm sorry if this screwed up the claiming somehow.

@jmurph3

I didn't think my argument against Skill was weak But then again I'm not sure what is strong and what isn't. I know for myself that Skill is still someone I consider scummy though some of my reasons are attributed to her not being around which seems to be because of real life stuff. Then again it could just be lurking while we all went after each other and eventually gone for Ray. Still, in light of Ray being VT I still am suspicious of Skill but now wary.

Also, I've been writing this post on and off this evening. You do realize scum could easily end the game now if they both vote? Skill didn't vote for Smash because we shouldn't be voting until we all discuss who we think we ought to vote for. I may agree with a Skill vote but please please PLEASE unvote as soon as you see this and hold off till we all get our thoughts in otherwise we will see a quick end to this game maybe (unless Skill is scum in which case I guess we will end up waiting).

I also suspect Smash still and believe them to be a pair. I'll get into it more tomorrow but please jmurph unvote Skill till we hear more from Skill and Smash because I'd like to hear from them first. Though we may not get the chance.

[jmurph3]

Also, I've been writing this post on and off this evening. You do realize scum could easily end the game now if they both vote? Skill didn't vote for Smash because we shouldn't be voting until we all discuss who we think we ought to vote for. I may agree with a Skill vote but please please PLEASE unvote as soon as you see this and hold off till we all get our thoughts in otherwise we will see a quick end to this game maybe (unless Skill is scum in which case I guess we will end up waiting).

Fair enough, didn't think of it that way.

Unvote

It looks like you're trying to say that Skill006 was never really in danger of getting a Phaen partner lynched by keeping her vote there yesterday. I very much disagree with that. Until the last batch of replacements and the deadline extension I think it was pretty clear that Phaen was a (and probably the) top lynch candidate. Skill006 lobbied against the replacements and deadline extension (and then got flak for it.) I also pretty strongly object to not voting right away in LyLo being a point against someone but I suspect that the start of my post covered that.

I disagree with that. Prana and myself had both disagreed strongly with a Phaen lynch, and the disappearance of jammer and Ray meant that there did not seem to be a strong enough push with enough momentum to really bring Phaen down. As Skill mentioned, there only ever seemed to be about 2.5 strong pushers on the Phaen wagon. There was definite risk, especially at one point before some of the replacements, but I honestly don't think, given the way we've played in this game, that there was definite danger, especially since, had Skill changed her mind or her vote, the lynch would most likely not have gone through.

Your case on me yesterday, unlike PranaDevil's, was based on a fair amount more than just WIFOM. There were a number of aspects of my play which you didn't like and which you had rejected my most recent explanations for. I'd like to hear why you're no longer thinking that they should put me in your top two for suspects.

True, my case was based on more than just WIFOM. It was based mostly on the aspects of your play which I saw as distracting town. However, going back and reading through what was said by you on D2, there were a number of things that you said that were valuable, and, had I been less predeclined to dismiss them as WIFOM, I would have not necessarily seen them as distracting town the way I did.

[Skill006]

CRAP NO! I just lost my whole post ‘cause I clicked on the stupid Google search button GAARARR

*sigh. I will now commence in trying to retype that whole post I was working on.

@jmurph: basically, this new case on me is because of my trying to push a perez lynch. And, according to you, the lynch was not going to go anywhere, and scum-me would not have to worry about lynching my assumed scum-buddy, perez.

Well, first of all, when you say prana had “disagreed strongly with the phaen lynch”, do you realize that prana voted phaen? I would not have been able to predict whether prana, or anybody, was going to vote for phaen. So, you’re assuming that I was assuming that I knew people were not going to vote for phaen, and it would be an easy way to distance, which is a lot of assuming and just plain weak.

Not only that, but you hardly have a scum read on perez. You strongly opposed the lynch then, but now that he fits where you want him to, he deserves suspicion? Hmmm…

---

It’s hard to say who I’m suspicious of right now. Last night I had this unshakable scum read on prana, and all of my notes were dedicated to if prana was scum. Of course, that’s all absolutely dead to me now

Like I said before, smashbro was my top scum read right now (though I’m not absolutely sure I have any kind of order).

It mostly has to do with jammer’s posting. He had a persistence in active lurking that allowed him to stay well in the background, especially in situations when he could jump on to popular BWs.

A lot of jammer’s posts didn’t have very much content, and when there was content, it was stuff he was just throwing out there, as if to push it either way, and never really took a stance (like Ray said). It’s easy to make posts like that. I feel like he was just coasting along.

As for smashbro, well, his posts seem decent enough. However, he only ever posted thoughts on me and Ray. Not really sure where he sits right now. I need to look more in depth into what he has said, so I guess most of my scum read is coming from jammer’s posting style.

My scum read yesterday was perez/phaen. It still holds true.

However, I also don’t like how jmurph has been posting. There has been stuff from the past two days that, at first, I thought was a newb town-tell. However, when no one emphasized a scum read on her following the prana green light signal, she keeps trailing along under his shadow. Only when people started to vote/FoS her for it did she try and reform her play-style (which is a possible attempt for getting town points).

Not only this, but whenever she was going to go one direction, she would stop, and say she was going to wait to hear what everyone else had to say before posting her stance. I believe this is copyrighted material from troll :b

As for perez, his posts are really long so I’ll admit I skimmed them a bit . Ima gonna go look through them in a bit, as well as smashbro’s posts.

[jmurph3]

@jmurph: basically, this new case on me is because of my trying to push a perez lynch. And, according to you, the lynch was not going to go anywhere, and scum-me would not have to worry about lynching my assumed scum-buddy, perez.

Actually, the case against you is a lot more than that. I haven't delineated everything, which is the fault of the fact that this is Easter weekend and I am thus busy.

The reason why I brought up the Perez thing is because I think you're scum. However, in thinking you're scum, the problem for me was who could be your scumbuddy. Zorb could easily be, given the way you two partnered for the Phaen lynch during D2, but firstly, I think that's too obvious and Zorb's a better player than that, and secondly, I'm getting a much stronger town vibe on him than I was before. Smash I just don't see, since, as I mentioned, I don't think you or any scum would come out on D3 in Lylo and accuse their scumbuddy. This leaves me, and, well, yeah, so for me the most viable option was Perez, which is what I was trying to get across in my last post.

I promise a longer post coming sometime on Monday. I will not be able to say much more before that.

[Zorblag]

This is just to let everyone know that I'll be getting back to the game this evening or (more likely) tomorrow afternoon.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Skill006]

By thinking I'm scum and partnering me with perez may skew your actual reads on us, especially perez.

Its very possible that I am scum buddies with smash or troll, and its also very likely (and true) that I'm not scum.

I know there was the case on me from yesterday, but frankly, you didn't agree with that case. I'm not buying it if you suddenly say "Oh, I reread it and so now its good," because its a great time for you to be changing your mind.

So, I'd like to see this other part of the case you have on me (although, I understand its Easter time, so don't cut into an important time if it is important)

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

OK, so now we know that we don't have any town power roles. I suppose the good news is that the scum haven't confused the game at all with any fake claims and we do know that we're up against a roleblocker and goon combination. In scum teams with a roleblocker and a goon we can expect the goon to be a bit protective of the roleblocker just because if there were two power roles the scum needs the roleblocker around to have a reasonable chance at winning. Unfortunately until we get a flip to work with that doesn't actually do us that much good.

Both the night kills have been fairly unsurprising ones thus far. No one really suspected PaltryExcuse at the end of day one. PranaDevil, even though both smashbro_of_the_SSS and I had applied a little pressure towards the end of day two, was in a similar position. For me personally that means that I have to decide how likely it is that the night kills were a matter of simply eliminating those viewed as most likely to be town as opposed to potential threats. Everyone should at this point be taking a look at why you are alive in LyLo. From here on out the scum just need one mislynch (which in can come the first time one town member votes for another) so we need to be deliberate with our voting from here on out.

As for the first paragraph, now that scum know there are no power roles, I'm not sure it would matter much to them whether or not they keep the roleblocker around. So I'm not sure how much the reasoning in paragraph 1 could be applied. I'm not going to be looking for anything.

As for the nightkill, I agree, the kill probably can't be more read into than "he was the towniest of them all". I'm here probably because I replaced in to a slightly sketchy position.

It mostly has to do with jammer’s posting. He had a persistence in active lurking that allowed him to stay well in the background, especially in situations when he could jump on to popular BWs.

A lot of jammer’s posts didn’t have very much content, and when there was content, it was stuff he was just throwing out there, as if to push it either way, and never really took a stance (like Ray said). It’s easy to make posts like that. I feel like he was just coasting along.

As for smashbro, well, his posts seem decent enough. However, he only ever posted thoughts on me and Ray. Not really sure where he sits right now. I need to look more in depth into what he has said, so I guess most of my scum read is coming from jammer’s posting style.

My scum read yesterday was perez/phaen. It still holds true.

However, I also don’t like how jmurph has been posting. There has been stuff from the past two days that, at first, I thought was a newb town-tell. However, when no one emphasized a scum read on her following the prana green light signal, she keeps trailing along under his shadow. Only when people started to vote/FoS her for it did she try and reform her play-style (which is a possible attempt for getting town points).

Not only this, but whenever she was going to go one direction, she would stop, and say she was going to wait to hear what everyone else had to say before posting her stance. I believe this is copyrighted material from troll :b

As for perez, his posts are really long so I’ll admit I skimmed them a bit . Ima gonna go look through them in a bit, as well as smashbro’s posts.

As for jammer's playstyle, I don't feel I'm in the position to try and explain it or try and give excuses for why he didn't play well, since I'm not him. Sorry, but in the end, speculation on a replaced player just leads to speculation.

Sorry for only getting out thoughts on you and Ray, but I figured I would only focus on the more likely lynches at hand. If you would like a list, I'm thinking that Skill and jmurph are probably scummiest, though I'm not quite sure I see a team between the two, Perez as slightly scummy, and Zorblag as slightly townie.

As for your paragraph on how jmurph posted, I was originally going to say null tell, but reading it over, it does seem a bit scummy. I plan on rereading a bit.

As for Perez, his play yesterday seemed very townie, which leads to the question, why is he still alive if Prana may have been scummier. I'll have to look back at Prana's suspicions to see if he might have had heavy suspicions.

[jmurph3]

Sorry it took so long for me to get back. Just to warn you, this post is chock-full of quotes and the text walls that Ray hated, for which I apologize, but I wrote this rather disjointedly and I'm just hoping it sums up my thoughts well enough. Anywho, strap yourselves in, gents, cuz here we go:

By thinking I'm scum and partnering me with perez may skew your actual reads on us, especially perez.

Its very possible that I am scum buddies with smash or troll, and its also very likely (and true) that I'm not scum.

This is very true, and it's why over the weekend, I tried to take a step back and reevaluate things. I'm not sure where I stand now on your scum partner, but I'm not changing my opinion on you being scum. In fact, the more I go back and reread things, the more I'm sure of it.

I know there was the case on me from yesterday, but frankly, you didn't agree with that case. I'm not buying it if you suddenly say "Oh, I reread it and so now its good," because its a great time for you to be changing your mind.

Actually, you'll find that I wasn't entirely against the case on you from D2. I was against Ray's case, and, with my suspicions today, if he came in and played the same way, I would still be against what he was saying and, more importantly, the way he was saying it. He gave no evidence to his case, basing it almost solely on you not posting a lot D1, and never adding additional evidence as the day went on, basing it off of his RayFrost instinct.

However, I agreed then and I agree now with Prana's case, as noted when I said this:

I still think Skill is scummy, and I'm working on going back o D1 to confirm suspicions/look at anything that I might have missed before I decide how I want to vote.

Prana brought up many strong points about you, which I will summarize here:

Actually, I just went over Skill's posts, and something struck me (no, I'm not bruised, but thanks for the concern). Skills lack of any real voting, or lack of any serious scum hunting (and pretty much universal defending of everyone) has been mentioned, as has her admission at the start that she's not a good scum hunter.

But this one seems to have bypassed us all:

I don't jump on bandwagons, period. Even when I know the victim is scum (yeah, I know, real smart). Well, I guess you wouldn't know this.

So people can look it up, it's this post

So, a quick rundown of some facts Skill has mentioned of herself in this game:

- Bad at scum hunting (Possible cover?)
- Has done no voting since RVS.
- Solely defending people, not hunting (Possibly trying to keep everyone on side?)
- Refuses to jump on a bandwagon, even when she "knows" the victim is scum.

How would she even "know" the victim is scum short of being their scum buddy? And even if it's just a turn of phrase (possible, but a strange wording, as "think" would be better for a town player surely, as none of us know who is scum and who isn't), that doesn't scream pro-town to me... in fact it's decidedly scummy, as the one and only way for town to win, is for us to have a majority vote for scum, the only way to do that, is to have a bandwagon form to lynch them.

Note that this is further emphasized by Skill not voting at the end of D2. Even if she was against the Ray vote, which she seemed to be, there seemed to be no reason for her to take her vote off of Phaen/Perez if she was so convinced she/he was scum.

Also, and this one's had parts cut out of it, for which I apologize (and I hope Prana's dearly departed spirit forgives me for doing so ):

Love the pics
It looks more like paltry got run over by a car, as opposed to being shot XD

Ok, notice:

Day One's Final Vote Count

fuzzylightning ( 5 ) : jammer, jmurph3, PaltryExcuse,

PranaDevil

, Zorblag
Zorblag ( 3 ) : Phaen, RayFrost, fuzzylightning

Not Voting ( 1 ) : Skill006

With 9 alive, 5 votes were required to lynch.

And then here:

Day One: Vote Count

Apathy ( 4 ) : Phaen, RayFrost, fuzzylightning,

PranaDevil

fuzzylightning ( 2 ) : jammer, jmurph3
jmurph3 ( 1 ) : PaltryExcuse
RayFrost ( 1 ) : Apathy

Not Voting ( 1 ) : Skill006

With 9 alive, it will take 5 votes to lynch.

Opportunistic much?

Opportunistic? I think you'll find the reason I was late on the fuzzy wagon is I was still pushing for the Apathy one until Zorblag came in, and gave a reason.

You'll also find I had suspicions about both players, and therefore, while I still would have "preferred" the Apathy lynch, when Zorblag entered in I felt the better option was to go with my second hunch, just in case it was based off of Apathy's playing as opposed to the role (as Zorblag came in and appeared to be actively scum hunting, and yes, it's possible it was a front, but we had sweet little time to make that judgement call, I personally feel a replacement that late in a day is a bad idea when town is pretty much all set for the lynch of said player anyway).

Through the lack of voting, in fact... the fact you avoided voting almost entirely in the first day, only to return with "so do you think people on the wagons were scummy?" Leads me to believe that perhaps you are trying to keep people suspicious in the wrong directions.

I agree with this. At the time, I didn't make much of it, but reading back over the D1 and D2 things, it seemed like a very odd way to start D2, especially since Prana did support both wagons towards the end of the day, as he himself noted. It seems like a weird way to try and provoke a reaction, especially since there was a lot more to concentrate on than something like that.

Then, of course, there's this:

Hello there, smashbro_of_the_SSS
Has anyone ever told you how annoying it is to type that whole name?

I think we should lynch phaen before she gets replaced, IMO. I don't want the deadline to be pushed back even further, and there have been enough replacments in this game already.

Not only that, but I think most of us have run out of things to say.

unvote

Whoa there.

You want to lynch Phaen before... not only she has chance to reply to the prod, but before Smash gets a read on people, and before there's a chance to get someone else in to look over things?

I'd rather get a Phaen replacement and a fresh set of eyes on things, than lynch Phaen just for the sake of it right now. It was different when that consideration was over Apathy because people were strong for it... I'm still only half on it, but would prefer it to no lynch, and jmurph seems to feel the same.

The fact you would be willing to push it fast, rather than even consider an extension (and thus more talk this day, which... considering we've not had much, would be a bonus) looks extremely scummy.

While I not only agree with that, i find the contrast with this from D1, when Skill said, in regards to Phaen being pessimistic about a replacement,

Sigh, I can't really imagine getting much of a read on Troll in the ~30 hrs we have left =/

May as well give him a chance. He'll be able to help us, I'm sure.

This seems to be completely contradictory.

Then there's the jammer case, which I hate to bring up again, and I don't expect Skill to redefend herself on an issue which she already has, but her defense was this:

@everyone: I'll explain why I was making a case on jammer. It was my way of trying to get a read off of him. He was posting quite similarly to fuzzy (although he was making more of an attempt at attacking people), and I wanted to pressure him some way. I couldn't get much of a read off of him. At that point in the game, though, I thought a "pressure" vote would be irrelevant to the matters at hand, but I still wanted to see what he would say to my case. I was somewhat suspicious of him, but I more wanted to see his reactions. I also wanted to see what other people would think of it, and how they would react.

If she had made this argument for a vote earlier in the day, that would be fine. But at that point in D1, where we were so close to deadline, and with the town so split almost 50-50, it truly seemed like an attempt to seem like scumhunting and seem like giving input without having to take a stance on the actual issues that we were voting on. And that, to me, is problematic.

There are other things (sorry, this post got a little out of hand and I've actually run out of time to say all I wanted), but the moral of the story is that, having looked at everything with fresh eyes, I think Skill is the scummiest here. I don't have a full idea of her scumbuddy yet, as there are a lot of options, I just want to get out there where I'm standing on the issues. And since this post is beastly, if anyone has any questions for me, I will be more than happy to answer them.

[Kison]

Bumping for vote count.