Newbie 906 - Game Over!

[Kison]

Day Three Vote Count

Not Voting (

5

) : Skill006, smashbro_of_the_SSS, Zorblag, Perez, jmurph3

With

5

alive,

3

votes were required to lynch.

The day's deadline is currently set to: April 21st, 2010, 11:59:59 PM, EDT

[Perez]

I’m sorry I've been away for quite a few days. Been busy visiting some friends in Ottawa. I come back sick, a bit tipsy, and ready to get back to things now.

Since my arguments are apparently weak I'd like to present another argument I hadn't thought to look through earlier though it makes sense to see now that so many people are dead. Specifically who had the most to gain from the deaths so far in terms of votes against them. When you play as scum, it’s obvious that you’ll want to pick off the people who suspected you the most or at least made their cases against you or at least hold that grudge against them.

FuzzyLightning

voted for Zorb before lynched. Before him Fuzzy was voting for jmurph3.

PaltryExcuse

had voted for Fuzzy which is a dead end. However, before Fuzzy Paltry was voting for jmurph3 and before then Skill006.

RayFrost

had voted for Apathy/Zorblag by the end of D1. Before Zorb, he voted for Redbox/Phaen/me and before/after D1 he had voted for Skill006.

PranaDevil

had voted for jmurph3, Skill006, myself, and Zorblag.

So, for people still alive the votes against them from dead people (at any point) sums to

Skill006 - 3 / 4
Zorblag - 3 / 4
Perez - 2 / 4
Jmurph3 - 2 / 4
Smash - 0 / 4
(I may have missed a vote for someone. Not sure. Shout at me if I did)

Now, this isn’t to say that these dead players were extremely behind their votes or bandwagon or had a gut instinct against each person. This is circumstantial information but it’s something to look at. It bothers me that not one of the dead people had voted for

Smash

even though he has appeared scummy to me. Since he joined the game just before I did and didn’t make any comments till after several people including myself presented cases bugs me. He then posts about there not being power roles but obviously whoever was a power role could have easily lied and not admitted it in order to save their skin from scum counter-claiming or just avoid suspicion/a night death. He states that I seemed townie which I’m pretty sure everyone else has voted either against my slot or made their case against me. Him reading me as townie but not really following up on it makes me think he’s scum trying to get others to notice me when clearly no one has been trying to notice him (who is dead that is).

I believe the majority of players, both dead and alive, see

Skill006

as scum. She says the Ray lynch was rushed but it was done within a day of the deadline. Many weeks without a lynch just goes to show none of us had a good read on anyone. It wasn’t rushed and the end of day was too close not to lynch someone. She wants to vote for me, which is fair since Phaen wasn’t doing much and I’m not sure whether or not I appear scummy to people (I guess we all appear scummy to everyone?) but her comment afterwards is directed at jmurph3. Jmurph3 says scum wouldn’t go after their scum buddy during LyLo but it is entirely possible for them to accuse an innocent and scum buddy pushing for the innocent vote but keeping the scum buddy there as a backup vote. As Prana and as jmurph3 just stated, not voting for anyone and trying to keep people on her side is a scum feeling.

As for

jmurph3

, I said it before and I’ll repeat myself for the new day. I believe she is townie. Has she done scummy stuff? Of course but we all do because we all are suspicious of each other. Now who does more scummy things than jmurph3? Well she stayed to her vote and actually did a lynching vote on both days whereas Skill hasn’t voted and stuck with anyone yet. Obviously Skill006 can’t vote during D3 on LyLo but it is scummy nonetheless since it’s now two days without a vote that stuck. With jmurph3 voting during D3 I believe was an accident and not realizing the LyLo situation. It’s the towniest thing I could say for her for all the pages of posts.

As for Skill006’s partner it’s a toss up between

Smash

and

Zorblag

. Smash was scummy to me from when I joined the game and it was for him not really Cathart, somewhat jammer, not really kelyn. However, I could just be biased against him since him joining so close to when I did and him not making too many posts could just mean he’s new to this. Regardless, it’s scummy to me and will stay that way until he makes another argument. There could be more than just . When I came into the game I didn’t think Zorblag was scum due to all he has said and kept up with questioning everyone frequently. Now however with RayFrost and PranaDevil gone, there are few people to look at and he appears scummy after explaining the LyLo and general claiming without a really a thought about the D/N2 results. I still want to think he isn’t the scum partner but if jmurph3 looks good to me and Skill006 looks bad, it’s between Smash and Zorb.

Though during this day I believe still that Skill006 is scum what with I and everyone else has said about her. It's enough for a vote for me but beyond that I can’t really decide between Smash or Zorblag as the partner. Hopefully further posts from them or the next day should Skill be scum will help decide that more.

I hope I got everything in there right, took me awhile to write and figure out things while new posts came in. I also hope it made sense since I just wrote an English proficiency exam for the college I just got into and not making sense here means I didn't make sense earlier today . Again sorry for being gone, it bothers me a lot when I commit to something and have to ignore it for awhile.

Also, as Kison just posted, we have 2 weeks to get through this day and hopefully see the next one. Pressing submit was extremely satisfying.

[jmurph3]

FuzzyLightning

voted for Zorb before lynched. Before him Fuzzy was voting for jmurph3.

PaltryExcuse

had voted for Fuzzy which is a dead end. However, before Fuzzy Paltry was voting for jmurph3 and before then Skill006.

RayFrost

had voted for Apathy/Zorblag by the end of D1. Before Zorb, he voted for Redbox/Phaen/me and before/after D1 he had voted for Skill006.

PranaDevil

had voted for jmurph3, Skill006, myself, and Zorblag.

So, for people still alive the votes against them from dead people (at any point) sums to

Skill006 - 3 / 4
Zorblag - 3 / 4
Perez - 2 / 4
Jmurph3 - 2 / 4
Smash - 0 / 4
(I may have missed a vote for someone. Not sure. Shout at me if I did)

Actually, Perez, all of them voted for me at one point or another. RayFrost voted me during D2 before switching back to Skill because I was just following everything Prana said. Putting me at 4 / 4, if anyone would like to use that as an argument.

[Perez]

I actually didn't count properly in my post. You should have been 3/4 and I just found where Ray voted for you and then unvoted the following page and he voted for you again when I joined the game I feel like an idiot for missing that. I went to check on all the votes by checking Kison's vote counts only on each page. If I missed anymore let me know because I thought I had gone through them all pretty well but I suppose not.

Jmurph3 - 4 / 4
Skill006 - 3 / 4
Zorblag - 3 / 4
Perez - 2 / 4
Smash - 0 / 4

That...should be correct now.

@jmurph3

Were you actually following everything Prana said or did you just share the same arguments all the time?

[jmurph3]

@jmurph3

Were you actually following everything Prana said or did you just share the same arguments all the time?

I was agreeing with Prana, and our arguments were following the same thought pattern. Ray thought that this meant that I had no thought independent of Prana, hence why he voted me.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

Now, this isn’t to say that these dead players were extremely behind their votes or bandwagon or had a gut instinct against each person. This is circumstantial information but it’s something to look at. It bothers me that not one of the dead people had voted for

Smash

even though he has appeared scummy to me. Since he joined the game just before I did and didn’t make any comments till after several people including myself presented cases bugs me. He then posts about there not being power roles but obviously whoever was a power role could have easily lied and not admitted it in order to save their skin from scum counter-claiming or just avoid suspicion/a night death. He states that I seemed townie which I’m pretty sure everyone else has voted either against my slot or made their case against me. Him reading me as townie but not really following up on it makes me think he’s scum trying to get others to notice me when clearly no one has been trying to notice him (who is dead that is).

I posted about there being no power roles because nobody claimed. at this point, any cop should or would. Sure, looking back, I guess a doctor might not want to claim, but I was going by the claims of vanilla townie. This is the point in the game where we need power roles to claim. Even if there is a scum counter claim, it narrows the field down to 50% chance at finding scum.

I said you seemed townie due to your post quality, including the one above. It seems like you are very invested in the game and are helping the town with these posts. The previous players in your slot, I would think of you as very townie. But including your predecessors, my belief that jmurf and skill probably aren't a scum team, and my slight town read from zorb right now, that puts you under suspicion.

My inability to make longer posts was due to time, and my being a fairly new player, I still haven't fallen into my groove with making longer posts.

Also, did you count votes against anyone in my slot, or just me? Because if you didn't include the votes on my slot, it seems a bit biased. It can't be just some players that are scummy, it has to be the slot. So this goes for zorb and you too.

[Skill006]

Perez, you're posts are filled, but a lot of your information is really generalized.

Votes don't make people's alignments. I know I didn't vote at the end of the day yesterday, but that's because I was kinda confused about the case on Ray (I still am).

I would have realized by now that people don't like it when I don't vote if I were scum. Seeing as how Ray is a townie, I would have voted him (if I was scum) so that there would be a mislynch and we would go into LyLo.

But including your predecessors,[perez], my belief that jmurf and skill probably aren't a scum team, and my slight town read from zorb right now, that puts you under suspicion.

So you think that either me and perez are a scum team or jmurph and perez are a scum team? hmm...

How is it that me and jmurph don't seem likely in comparison to me and perez (I pushed for perez's lynch mid-day 2).

---

Also alot of quotes, you're not alone

- Bad at scum hunting (Possible cover?)

I said I wasn't going to use this as a cover, and I haven't yet...have I? (Excuses come to me naturally, unfortunately...)

- Has done no voting since RVS.

Please explain how not voting is scummy.

- Solely defending people, not hunting (Possibly trying to keep everyone on side?)

Done.

- Refuses to jump on a bandwagon, even when she "knows" the victim is scum.

I explained this, I'll link to it if you want.

I agree with this. At the time, I didn't make much of it, but reading back over the D1 and D2 things, it seemed like a very odd way to start D2, especially since Prana did support both wagons towards the end of the day, as he himself noted. It seems like a weird way to try and provoke a reaction, especially since there was a lot more to concentrate on than something like that.

And as I had noted, he seemed to have suspicion everywhere, so he could virtually move his vote to any place he wanted (and at the time that I posted that, I didn't realize that he had suspicion on fuzzy prior to his vote). Not only that, but it wasn't really the focus of my post, so I don't know why you're saying "there was more important things to focus on".

This seems to be completely contradictory.

But it's not. It was very circumstantial. I didn't want phaen replaced because not only did phaen not have a replacement already, but I started losing faith in the replacement system by that time (didn't seem to do the game much justice because of replacements throughout day 2 who sat idly and gave us more null tells).

mm...eh. I'll answer to the jammer case too. Only jammer ever questioned it as far as I can remember.

it truly seemed like an attempt to seem like scumhunting and seem like giving input without having to take a stance on the actual issues that we were voting on. And that, to me, is problematic.

I most certainly could have made the case on jammer earlier in the day, which would have made me look more town earlier on (and first impressions are lasting impressions). However, I only made that case so late because that was when I had thought of it.

I'm procrastinating a bit with this game, so I haven't gotten a chance to reread like I have been promising to. But, I'll get to it as soon as I can ^_^

[Perez]

My inability to make longer posts was due to time, and my being a fairly new player, I still haven't fallen into my groove with making longer posts.

Also, did you count votes against anyone in my slot, or just me? Because if you didn't include the votes on my slot, it seems a bit biased. It can't be just some players that are scummy, it has to be the slot. So this goes for zorb and you too.

I do not believe longer posts really matter in this game. The only reason for it is to get all your thoughts/arguments out there. You could have a few sentences and be satisfied with that and others should hold it against you. It isn't a town or scum tell, it's just your own playstyle/lifestyle whether or not you talk a lot or a little.

Also, I'm pretty sure I counted all the votes against your slot, or lack thereof. I don't believe any of the dead people have actually voted for you, just made cases against you/your slot. Everyone seems to be too preoccupied with each other to look at you/your slot for very long and that bothers me.

Perez, you're posts are filled, but a lot of your information is really generalized.

This is circumstantial information but it’s something to look at.

From this line I meant that that part of my info was generalized moreso than anything else. We can't be definitive on anything and looking at dead peoples' votes against living people isn't much but it is something and shouldn't be ignored, just not something to solely use to decide who to vote for.

Please explain how not voting is scummy.

What is the purpose of voting at all? To try and lynch scum. Scum wouldn't vote against their own if they want to win. Scum would try to avoid voting to cause a no-lynch and be that much closer to winning. Not voting doesn't help innocent townie side since voting is the only way we can win. Couldn't you see how not voting by day end makes you look like you want to hinder us from lynching someone? Maybe you didn't understand the case against Ray and yes we lynched an innocent person but it is better to try than not at all. The first game I modded with my inexperienced friends from my TF2 group had all the townies not voting and the scum voting for the first two days, resulting in two no lynches in a row. Unsurprisingly scum won and now they know they should vote instead of not voting and hoping a mafia member will do something catastrophically stupid and oust themselves to be lynched. I don't see how not voting makes you appear more townie than scum.

With regarding my arguments against you, I didn't think those were generalized but I stand by them all the same.

[Perez]

Gone for the night, taken NyQuil for cold/coughing like mad. Be back in afternoon tomorrow ( if there are any posts to be answered/comment on)

[jmurph3]

@Zorb: I'd really like to see your take on things at some point in the very near future.

[Skill006]

Sorry guys, the computer hasn't been as available as I would like it to be. My activity level is probably going to be minimal for the weekend.

Scum wouldn't vote against their own if they want to win. Scum would try to avoid voting to cause a no-lynch and be that much closer to winning.

Scum don't have vote against each other. In fact, it would be best for scum to have as little say about each other as possible.

The last few lynches for these days have been townies. I would have known that as scum. I would have voted them to assure their lynches, because mis-lynches help scum (more dead townies). I don't see how no-lynches help scum win.

I understand that as a townie, no-lynches don't help. I'm not trying to push for no-lynches, despite my vote record, and I don't see how it makes me look scummy (especially this day 2 one).

[jmurph3]

What is the purpose of voting at all? To try and lynch scum. Scum wouldn't vote against their own if they want to win. Scum would try to avoid voting to cause a no-lynch and be that much closer to winning. Not voting doesn't help innocent townie side since voting is the only way we can win. Couldn't you see how not voting by day end makes you look like you want to hinder us from lynching someone? Maybe you didn't understand the case against Ray and yes we lynched an innocent person but it is better to try than not at all.

I disagree with some of this statement, though not necessarily in regards to Skill.

For me, when I look at the way Skill has played, I do see the non-voting as being scummy. Firstly, on D1, it could have caused a mislynch. Secondly, on D2, in spite being confused about the Ray case, she still took her vote off towards the end of the day. Why? This shouldn't have anything to do with the Ray case. If she thought Ray wasn't scum, she should have argued for him not to be lynched, rather than just asking questions. Instead, she removed the pressure from anyone and let town shoot itself in the foot. This does not seem very town-like, and coupled with her other non-voting, seems decidedly scummy.

However, I don't believe that scum wouldn't vote their own. In fact, scum voting for their own and bringing their own down can, depending on the day and what's going on in the game, be a spectacular thing to do, especially if they started the lynch or at least argued for it. It tends (though this is just my experience where I've seen it quite successfully done) to throw suspicion off of the scum member. This doesn't always work, but it definitely can.

Overall, I still think that Skill is scum. If I'm reading what they're saying correctly, I think that Perez and Smash both at least have a slight scum vibe on Skill. However, what I really want is for Zorb to come back and contribute, especially if he has a dissenting opinion, which I would be welcome to hear.

Also, Zorb hasn't been around since Sunday.

@Mod: Can we get a prod on Zorb?

[Perez]

Scum don't have vote against each other. In fact, it would be best for scum to have as little say about each other as possible.

Scum most definitely can and will vote for each other if 1) just to throw off suspicion for both of them working together without leaving that vote to the end day or 2) If one team member is getting a lot of flak from all the other townies, they'll jump on board in lynching their team mate to throw off everyone during the next day. It's unlikely but not unheard of at all.

I understand that as a townie, no-lynches don't help. I'm not trying to push for no-lynches, despite my vote record, and I don't see how it makes me look scummy (especially this day 2 one).

Again, no-lynches only helps scum since it's another day one of them won't be lynched. Sure they'll want to push for an innocent to be lynched but a no-lynch is just as good if the former can't be reached. And for townies, no lynches means not killing an innocent but also means not killing scum. I believe not taking a shot at someone is the worst thing for townies and as you said no-lynches do not help townies. Saying they don't help scummy/make you look scummy is just ignoring the fact that no-lynches only help scum.

I disagree with some of this statement, though not necessarily in regards to Skill.

I wasn't directing everything I said at Skill006. I was answering why not voting is scummy.

Overall, I still think that Skill is scum. If I'm reading what they're saying correctly, I think that Perez and Smash both at least have a slight scum vibe on Skill. However, what I really want is for Zorb to come back and contribute, especially if he has a dissenting opinion, which I would be welcome to hear.

Yes, to confirm I believe Skill is scum and as I've said her partner is either Smash or Zorb. Since neither of them have said too much (Smash only mentioned he suspected Zorb and Zorb hasn't really pushed for anyone yet(unless I missed something)). However, I can't decide between the two and I'd like to hear more from both of them regarding what the three of us have said and who they suspect the most (and if it is Skill006 since I'm wondering if they too also see what jmurph3 or myself see in Skill006).

[Skill006]

Scum most definitely can and will vote for each other if 1) just to throw off suspicion for both of them working together without leaving that vote to the end day or 2) If one team member is getting a lot of flak from all the other townies, they'll jump on board in lynching their team mate to throw off everyone during the next day. It's unlikely but not unheard of at all.

I see what you're saying, but it doesn't really apply to me

Again, no-lynches only helps scum since it's another day one of them won't be lynched. Sure they'll want to push for an innocent to be lynched but a no-lynch is just as good if the former can't be reached. And for townies, no lynches means not killing an innocent but also means not killing scum. I believe not taking a shot at someone is the worst thing for townies and as you said no-lynches do not help townies. Saying they don't help scummy/make you look scummy is just ignoring the fact that no-lynches only help scum.

I also see what you're saying here, but why would I push for a no-lynch in the circumstance that I could have hammered fuzzy or ray? Why would I push for a mislynch when one of those two could have easily been lynched by my vote? Whoever you think my scumbuddy is can't be ray or fuzzy, and those were the two that could've been easily pushed for had I been scum, and it would be stupid of scum-me to just sit back and hope for a no-lynch so that "town gains no info", because obviously all of the town is going to be voting for people.

There's another reason why I wasn't voting, but it's only an "excuse for bad play".

I think the way you want to describe me is anti-town, because I do realize that lynches help town, and I do know that's the only way to catch scum, but it's not scummy to not vote, and you aren't clarifying yourself very well, so I'm not exactly convinced as to why you think my non-voting was scummy.

So, in your games perez, the scum were not voting? Wasn't that because the rest of the town wasn't voting? So, why do you think they weren't voting, to push for a mis-lynch, or to blend in? And who do you think has done a good job of blending in, seeming like a townie, and pushing for lynches of innocent townies and is responsible for putting us into this LyLo position?

Can you explain why, in my particular case, not voting would benefit scum?

[Skill006]

Firstly, on D1, it could have caused a mislynch.

Uh, no. It couldn't have. In fact, it didn't. Don't know what you're talking about.

Secondly, on D2, in spite being confused about the Ray case, she still took her vote off towards the end of the day. Why? This shouldn't have anything to do with the Ray case. If she thought Ray wasn't scum, she should have argued for him not to be lynched, rather than just asking questions. Instead, she removed the pressure from anyone and let town shoot itself in the foot. This does not seem very town-like, and coupled with her other non-voting, seems decidedly scummy.

I took my vote off because I wasn't sure what was said in the thread while I was gone, and I wanted to catch up. And I didn't oppose the ray lynch, he was third on my list, so why would I argue against everyone like you explain I should've? If i had voted him, it would've been the hammer, and I wasn't ready for his lynch at that point (didn't understand the case on him, yada yada).

Anyhow, jmurph, you still haven't answered my question. Why was Ray's change in playstyle scummy?

[Skill006]

@both perez and jmurph, my supposed scum buddy isn't going to find themselves out for you. Why don't you try looking at other players in this game, rather than trying to convince us that I'm scum (through a fairly weak argument).

[Skill006]

EBWOP I try to stay away from being a hypocrite, so I'll be doing just what I've asked you two to do as well, when I get the chance ^_^ Oh, and sorry for this string of posts.

[jmurph3]

Firstly, on D1, it could have caused a mislynch.

Uh, no. It couldn't have. In fact, it didn't. Don't know what you're talking about.

Uh, actually, it could have. Had people not been around for the deadline, or had no one been willing to change their votes, with the town divided pretty solidly as we were, your lack of voting could have left us as 3 v. 3 and no one could have been lynched. No, you're right, this didn't happen. But it definitely could have.

Secondly, on D2, in spite being confused about the Ray case, she still took her vote off towards the end of the day. Why? This shouldn't have anything to do with the Ray case. If she thought Ray wasn't scum, she should have argued for him not to be lynched, rather than just asking questions. Instead, she removed the pressure from anyone and let town shoot itself in the foot. This does not seem very town-like, and coupled with her other non-voting, seems decidedly scummy.

I took my vote off because I wasn't sure what was said in the thread while I was gone, and I wanted to catch up. And I didn't oppose the ray lynch, he was third on my list, so why would I argue against everyone like you explain I should've? If i had voted him, it would've been the hammer, and I wasn't ready for his lynch at that point (didn't understand the case on him, yada yada).

Yeah, I got that you didn't understand the case, and that you wanted to catch up, but I see no reason why you would've taken your vote off. That doesn't make sense to me. Also, if Ray was third on your list, then why, that close to deadline, would you suddenly start questioning the case on him? It was, much like your case with jammer, really poor timing, and both those in combination make you very scummy.

Anyhow, jmurph, you still haven't answered my question. Why was Ray's change in playstyle scummy?

Part of the reason why I haven't answered it is because I don't see its relevance now given as we're not looking back on things but instead should be looking forward, but I'll answer it anyway. Ray's change in playstyle was scummy because it seemed as if he was intentionally misleading or attempting to mislead town. It wasn't just the change in playstyle that was scummy (as anyone can adapt his or her playstyle based off of what happens in the game), but it was what he changed his playstyle to that was most scummy to me. Darting in and out, not answering questions, making votes based on "instinct" and not evidence, none of those help town. To me, at the time, that made him scummy.

@both perez and jmurph, my supposed scum buddy isn't going to find themselves out for you. Why don't you try looking at other players in this game, rather than trying to convince us that I'm scum (through a fairly weak argument).

You're right, your scum buddy won't catch himself for us, but also note that your lynch, if it were to happen, would also reveal quite a bit about your scumbuddy. Playing out the case as we are can reveal things about other players based on their reactions to what is being said. Also, note how I mentioned before that I was suspicious of Perez being your scumbuddy. Everything he says is something that I can use to make a case on him if that's where things lead me.

[Kison]

Zorblag and smashbro_of_the_SSS have been prodded.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

I don't believe that I have much new to add right now, I'd like to see what Zorb has to say on matters.

And in response to Skill's quote

But including your predecessors,[perez], my belief that jmurf and skill probably aren't a scum team, and my slight town read from zorb right now, that puts you under suspicion.

So you think that either me and perez are a scum team or jmurph and perez are a scum team? hmm...

How is it that me and jmurph don't seem likely in comparison to me and perez (I pushed for perez's lynch mid-day 2).

I don't know how to give an exact reason for not believing that you and jmurph are a scum team, but you interactions and overall play has given me the vibe that you two are not a scum team together. Still, you are the two who I have the biggest scum read on, and so I believe one of the tow of you is scum.

Further, Perez seems the next scummiest mostly because of my slight town read on Zorb. As for which one of the two would be the second mafia, I would have to wait and see how things played out today, and who the nightkill would be, before my final decision between them.

[jmurph3]

I don't believe that I have much new to add right now, I'd like to see what Zorb has to say on matters.

Smash, while we wait for Zorb, I'd really like for you give your reads on everyone. After all, you should be able to do this separately of anything Zorb has to say.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

I don't believe that I have much new to add right now, I'd like to see what Zorb has to say on matters.

Smash, while we wait for Zorb, I'd really like for you give your reads on everyone. After all, you should be able to do this separately of anything Zorb has to say.

Ok, I thought that I covered it in the previous post, but I'll go over it again.

Skill

Skill seems to be a very passive player, and albeit she was in a tough position for voting, she still did not vote as much early in the day as townies probably should for her cases. Possibly cautious scum.

jmurph

While it may be your own opinions, you do seem to be following the crowd quite often, and being on the most likely lynches. This is more prevalent in the second day, but also seems to be there on the first day a bit.

Perez

As a player, he seems to be townie, but has everyone forgotten his slot? Phean was almost lynched for lurking, and redbox was actively lurking. at this point I don't feel comfortable placing him as #1 scum, but since I don't believe Skill and jmurph are a team, he could easily be the partner of one of them.

Zorblag

I'm seeing him a slightly townie, because almost anything I have seen scummy about him was merely WIFOM, which isn't necessarily a scum tell. Going back and reading Apathy's posts, I'm becoming more confident in Zorblag as town.

Also, just for reference, I'm going to post the final votecounts, and see where everyone was. NOt sure if I'll be able to make anything of it, but next time I come on, I'll look at them again

Day One's Final Vote Count

fuzzylightning (

5

) :

jammer (smashbro)

,

jmurph3

, PaltryExcuse, PranaDevil,

Zorblag

Zorblag (

3

) :

Phaen (Perez)

, RayFrost, fuzzylightning

Not Voting (

1

) :

Skill006

With

9

alive,

5

votes were required to lynch.

Day Two's Final Vote Count

RayFrost (

4

) :

smashbro_of_the_SSS

, PranaDevil,

Zorblag

,

Perez

Zorblag (

1

) :

jmurph3

Skill006 (

1

) : RayFrost

Not Voting (

1

) :

Skill006

With

7

alive,

4

votes were required to lynch.

[Skill006]

I'm reconsidering my suspicions. I'm a bit more weak on my previous read on smashbro now. Last night, all of my suspicions were focused on prana, like I had said, but of course he's dead now so that kills those suspicions.

Next in line during the night phase was jammer/smashbro, but it was more jammer than smashbro. I still haven't taken a look at smashbro's posting, but once I do I'll be able to develop a better read on him. However, I don't like how smash is staying signifigantly in the background, and posting thoughts after everyone else does.

So, my current suspicions lie with jmurph. Just for the moment though, its kinda tentative (high activity is unusual play for scum, I think. Although, she got hit pretty badly for lurking early on, so that may have taught her to do better).

The reason is because of her switch in suspicions from day 2.

Skill is only up there because I dislike her disappearing so close to deadline (I know it's a real-life issue, but still). I still don't think I would vote for her at this point. I think that her play overall has been a lot more consistent D2, and I don't think that her waffling on D1 is enough to merit my vote yet.

So...what has changed? Oh, the fact that scum only needs one more mislynch and they win, so may as well go after the easy target, right?

Smash is up there at number 2 because I'm not sure how I feel about the way he's acted thus far in this game. He votes for Skill then calls Ray scummy but doesn't vote for him until there seems to be enough support for it.

He's #2 on your list. Where'd this go? And how did I shoot above him on your suspicion list? (sorry if you explained it already as I know you hate repeating yourself but I honestly must have missed it).

Oh, and don't forget about the suspicion on Zorblag from yesterday. That totally just disappeared. I wonder why. Maybe because her Zorby-hunting partner [prana] is gone, or maybe because there are waaay easier targets to go after [me].

Your reason for doubting suspicion from yesterday was because "the info he had to offer is good, I didn't really see it there before". I'm sure.

ZORBLAG IS FAIRLY EXPERIENCED, OF COURSE THE INFO IS GOOD. SCUM CAN ALSO SPOUT OUT INFO LIKE THAT AND IT SHOULDN'T CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT THE WIFOM CONCEPT.

Besides, your case was "the timing of the WIFOM", if I remember correctly. So, basically, you put together some weak reason for changing your mind (which didn't have all that much to do with your previous case in the first place), say "my town read on zorby is tentative", and POOF, the suspicion is gone, leaving room for just that one mislynch you need.

Oh yeah, and your case on me is a buncha quotes from the past couple days backed by little bits of your own. Which, you in fact

did

say, was not lynch-worthy.

So, all in all,

FoS: jmurph

(would be a vote in better circumstances, but as our mayor says, we need to deliberate )

[jmurph3]

Skill is only up there because I dislike her disappearing so close to deadline (I know it's a real-life issue, but still). I still don't think I would vote for her at this point. I think that her play overall has been a lot more consistent D2, and I don't think that her waffling on D1 is enough to merit my vote yet.

So...what has changed? Oh, the fact that scum only needs one more mislynch and they win, so may as well go after the easy target, right?

Smash is up there at number 2 because I'm not sure how I feel about the way he's acted thus far in this game. He votes for Skill then calls Ray scummy but doesn't vote for him until there seems to be enough support for it.

He's #2 on your list. Where'd this go? And how did I shoot above him on your suspicion list? (sorry if you explained it already as I know you hate repeating yourself but I honestly must have missed it).

Firstly, I don't see how amending my suspicions is scummy. Zorb was scummy precisely because of the WIFOM. That's the only reason why I switched my vote to him, which I did state. The timing to me, at the time, in the heat of the moment, caused me to

The only parts that were being pushed on Skill yesterday was the jammer case and a lack of posting. Those were neither enough good reason for me to vote. I stand by the decision. I've gone back through the Skill case, including everything that Skill did on D1 and D2, and I honestly find Skill scummy. If this is apparently scummy to go back through and refine my arguments, then I think you don't know how this game is played.

ZORBLAG IS FAIRLY EXPERIENCED, OF COURSE THE INFO IS GOOD. SCUM CAN ALSO SPOUT OUT INFO LIKE THAT AND IT SHOULDN'T CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT THE WIFOM CONCEPT.

My mind isn't changed about the WIFOM concept, thanks. I'd like to think that I'm intelligent enough to recognize that scum can use WIFOM tactics to distract the town. I also think that it's not helpful at this point to keep pushing that without further evidence, and I don't think it puts Zorb at the top of my list anymore, so until Zorb actually posts something today, I'm keeping my opinion in check.

Look, your case on me comes across as more or less OMGUS. Which is less than convincing. You are, to me, the most scummy. Call my bunch of quotes useless if you will, but I think it makes a convincing argument. I do regard the other people as scummy. I find Smash mildly scummy, mostly for hanging back and not saying much. Perez seems to be following everything I say, and has been for awhile, which I definitely find suspicious, and Zorb was and remains to be scummy. The fact of the matter is that your case probably is the "easy lynch". You are the most scummy. You continue to come across as the most scummy. You've offered no valid defense for your actions. And I don't think it's wrong to push for the lynch on someone that I'm convinced is scum as opposed to someone who I'm mildly suspicious of being scum.

By the way, why would you say that the case on you is an easy lynch? Clearly you're acknowledging that most of what you've done this game is scummy, or else no one would beyond me would be convinced or your scumminess.

At this point, with the way you reacted in your last post, I'm more convinced than ever that you are scum. All that remains for me is to find your scumbuddy so we know what we're getting into for D4.

[Skill006]

The only parts that were being pushed on Skill yesterday was the jammer case and a lack of posting. Those were neither enough good reason for me to vote.

There was more than that. The case you have on me right now is everything from day 1 and 2. The case on me yesterday was everything from day 1 and 2. I don't see the difference.

Firstly, I don't see how amending my suspicions is scummy.

It's not the "amending your suspicions" that's scummy, it's how you amended your suspicions. Basically, with the flick of your wrist you said "Zorby's WIFOM has some merit to it" and you targeted someone else. There was more to your case than the WIFOM, but you instantly turn away from those suspicions to target someone else.

If this is apparently scummy to go back through and refine my arguments, then I think you don't know how this game is played.

Its not, but the timing of it is.

My mind isn't changed about the WIFOM concept, thanks. I'd like to think that I'm intelligent enough to recognize that scum can use WIFOM tactics to distract the town. I also think that it's not helpful at this point to keep pushing that without further evidence, and I don't think it puts Zorb at the top of my list anymore, so until Zorb actually posts something today, I'm keeping my opinion in check.

Ok, this makes sense.

Look, your case on me comes across as more or less OMGUS.

I can see how you would want to blame me for that, but its not OMGUS. OMGUS stands for Oh my god you suck, which is apparently a sufficient case for OMGUS users, but I actually have solid reasons to suspect you.

Call my bunch of quotes useless if you will, but I think it makes a convincing argument.

They're not useless. Don't bash yourself (I hope I didn't call them useless, I often get kinda sarcastic without meaning to).

and Zorb was and remains to be scummy.

You can say "he is scummy" all you want, but I still feel you're trying to avoid picking a fight with him.

You are the most scummy.

The most anti-town, actually, which I'm trying to fix, but its hard for me.

You've offered no valid defense for your actions.

Yeah, I have a defense but not really a valid one. I'm not saying your reasons for suspecting me are bad, I hope you know. They're just perfectly utilized at the right timing (I happen to be the most scummy in LyLo).

By the way, why would you say that the case on you is an easy lynch? Clearly you're acknowledging that most of what you've done this game is scummy, or else no one would beyond me would be convinced or your scumminess.

... Didn't you just answer your own question?

At this point, with the way you reacted in your last post, I'm more convinced than ever that you are scum.

oh. Well, despite it looking like OMGUS to you (which it is not), I have very valid points against you that convince me that

you

are scum. Honestly. I know, they seem like they have popped out of nowhere. But let's see if anyone else agrees with me.

@everyone else, what do you think of my case on jmurph?