Newbie 940 - Game over

For Newbie Games, which have a set format and experienced moderators. Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #75 (ISO) » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:51 pm

Post by Jerako »

Thor wrote:If you're not comfortable with voting yet please tell me whom you suspect most and why.
Sure. I'll also vote now, since I have more information from him, which is what I was looking for. I am currently most suspicious of [no]. With his initial vote on Prediger, which at the time put him at L-1, he stated that he doesn't bandwagon without a reason, although the only reason provided was one that was mentioned before, by somebody else. He also hinted in the same post that there was another reason for his suspicions. When he does give another reason, it's something that he himself later states is an "obvious superfluous accusation." He then withdraws his vote, because he was specifically called out on this, and it's now obvious he doesn't have a good reason for being on the bandwagon.

Especially since the vote in question was to place Prediger at L-1 (close to, but not quite the hammer), I believe these are the actions of a mafia joining a bandwagon to try for an early lynch, with a poor attempt at cloaking it as something else.

And now, I also read his last couple of posts as being deliberately vague about his intentions.
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Post Post #76 (ISO) » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:03 pm

Post by [no] »

Jerako wrote:
Thor wrote:If you're not comfortable with voting yet please tell me whom you suspect most and why.
Sure. I'll also vote now, since I have more information from him, which is what I was looking for. I am currently most suspicious of [no]. With his initial vote on Prediger, which at the time put him at L-1, he stated that he doesn't bandwagon without a reason, although the only reason provided was one that was mentioned before, by somebody else.
Not merely because it was mentioned, but because it made sense for a moment. I no longer abide by it.
Jerako wrote:He also hinted in the same post that there was another reason for his suspicions. When he does give another reason, it's something that he himself later states is an
"obvious superfluous accusation."
That isn't a retraction of my weak FoS. I'm wondering why he thought it was suspicious to answer a question intended for someone else. It seems it was a lame attempt to get people to jump on that bandwagon.
Jerako wrote:He then withdraws his vote, because he was specifically called out on this
"called out" as in "reasonably shown to have a malformed opinion", i agree. At least, that's how I am seeing it at this moment
Jerako wrote:Especially since the vote in question was to
place Prediger at L-1
(close to, but not quite the hammer),
That's a lie
Jerako wrote:And now, I also read his last couple of posts as being deliberately vague about his intentions.
i am going to try to answer thor's latest question if that helps. the previous one of "why are you retracting it now" has already been answered
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Post Post #77 (ISO) » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:09 pm

Post by Die Prediger »

[no] wrote:
Jerako wrote:Especially since the vote in question was to
place Prediger at L-1
(close to, but not quite the hammer),
That's a lie
But you did let me at L-1, didnt you?
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Post Post #78 (ISO) » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:14 pm

Post by [no] »

oh, it looks like i misinterpreted that
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Post Post #79 (ISO) » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:16 pm

Post by [no] »

heh, i need to brush up on my communication
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Post Post #80 (ISO) » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:20 pm

Post by [no] »

Thor665 wrote:What happened here to change your opinion of early lynches?
i remember saying something about it being a bad idea to early lynch, yes? if then i guess i retract it.
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Post Post #81 (ISO) » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:24 pm

Post by Vel-Rahn Koon »

Official Vote Count


[no] - 3 (AurorusVox, Thor665, Jerako)

Die Prediger - 1 (silverbullet999)
Thor665 - 1 (Die Prediger)
Nachomamma8 - 1 (Pulindar)

Not Voting - 3 ([no], hiphop, Nachomamma8)


5 to Lynch.
Deadline
is the end of Tuesday, May 4.
The Newbie Queue ALWAYS needs ICs and Mods!


Are you willing to help out? Check the Queue title to see what roles we need filled!
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Post Post #82 (ISO) » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:48 pm

Post by Die Prediger »

unvote
vote hiphop


for still not posting here - Nacho already has a vote on him. And i dont have anything about Thor to keep my vote on him.

I know we are in the first days, but i dont like lurking.
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Post Post #83 (ISO) » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:53 pm

Post by silverbullet999 »

So, if I understand you correctly - someone starting a lynch wagon (me) = potential suspect.
The target of a lynch wagon (Die) = potential suspect
Guy who just "hopped on" a lynch wagon without providing his reasons (Pulindar) = not a suspect

Am I missing something here, or do you actually believe this? If you believe this why do you believe that scum wouldn't want to just sort of agree with someone and hop on a lynch wagon without saying why?
Your missing the if scenario... it all depended on if die was lynched and if he was really a townie or mafia. I right now slightly suspect die (keyword slightly) from his reactions. If he was lynched and was a townie i would have suspected you and no and slightly suspect pulindar. If he was lynched and wasn't a townie i wouldn't suspect you, maybe no, and maybe pulindar. Originally i thought pulindar was first to unvote which is why i was a bit suspicious of you However i have been corrected (i missed you unvoting first (i blame work))... though now i feel you are just being aggressive to find mafia and at the least seem like a good townie.

Overall i'm slightly suspicious of die and no at the moment.
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Post Post #84 (ISO) » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:59 pm

Post by Die Prediger »

hey SILVER...

in case you didnt see it, can you answer my post at #69?
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Post Post #85 (ISO) » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:32 pm

Post by Thor665 »

silverbullet999 wrote:I right now slightly suspect die (keyword slightly) from his reactions. If he was lynched and was a townie i would have suspected you and no and slightly suspect pulindar.
Good to see Pulindar added to the list, though perhaps only through my abuse of you over it. Okay, now here's the $15 million dollar question;

If you suspect someone and are on a wagon (as you were/are with Die) and the target is lynched and flipped town...why in the universe would you suspect all the people on that wagon if you believed the person you were voting for seemed suspicious? Yeah, scum vote town but it is a sad truth in this game that town vote town quite a bit too. Unless you can justify something about the way they acted in getting on the wagon that is scummy, simply being on the wagon of a townie lynch is not scummy.

Feel free to hold to your own beliefs in that regard, but I personally find your expressed logic potentially dangerous to the town if you are a townie. Other then that I have no issue with your current plots - please continue.
silverbullet999 wrote:now i feel you are just being aggressive to find mafia
:lol: Dear sir, if you think I'm aggressive you should wait and see some of the fellows from the "regular" Mafia games here. I'm a pussycat.

As currently stands - clearly [no] is working hard to dig himself a nice hole but I'm still getting such newbish vibes off of him it is hard to read clearly. I'm lukewarm about the timing of Jerako's vote and that right after his claimed need to assess more he promptly hops on what is clearly the hottest wagon around.

@Pulindar, I'm surprised you called out [no] without addressing the newbie issue. What's your read there?

Also, what was up with your RVS (now returned) of Nacho for 'reading you well'. Presumably if you're town you wouldn't worry about a scum reading you, because they already know who is town, so the logical presumption is you are scum afraid of town Nacho's foresight into your methods. Thoughts?
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Post Post #86 (ISO) » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:53 pm

Post by Pulindar »

Thor665 wrote:
silverbullet999 wrote:now i feel you are just being aggressive to find mafia
:lol: Dear sir, if you think I'm aggressive you should wait and see some of the fellows from the "regular" Mafia games here. I'm a pussycat.

As currently stands - clearly [no] is working hard to dig himself a nice hole but I'm still getting such newbish vibes off of him it is hard to read clearly. I'm lukewarm about the timing of Jerako's vote and that right after his claimed need to assess more he promptly hops on what is clearly the hottest wagon around.
The way I see this is that Thor is actually asking questions well, and being pretty laid back. He's addressing issues, but not pushing them harder than he feels they need to be pushed. In all honesty I think he's playing a nice soft game of Mafia so far, getting you guys more used to the climate.
Thor wrote:@Pulindar, I'm surprised you called out [no] without addressing the newbie issue. What's your read there?
eh not sure. I'm currently in five newbie games, and obviously have finished others. three of those games lynched scum. Two on the first day. every time it was a newbie playing the part poorly. Some major slip, some major thing. In the fourth game I have determined who the scum are, and again the first one was a newbie who made a major slip. I think [no] probably falls into this category, but I'm not sure. Plus, I want to have others express their opinions before weighing in too strongly with my own and over turning the game without people learning. These games are more for learning (in a couple days one of them should end and I'll show you what I mean)
Thor wrote: Also, what was up with your RVS (now returned) of Nacho for 'reading you well'. Presumably if you're town you wouldn't worry about a scum reading you, because they already know who is town, so the logical presumption is you are scum afraid of town Nacho's foresight into your methods. Thoughts?
I like this question :) it supposes stuff, and drills me, and yet offers room to move. It's a well built question that gives the reader a chance to show that they're town, and will throw scum off. Everyone should read it. Specific questions like this help both the defender and the attacker.

Now, to answer. RVS happens to be my favorite section of the game. I'll return to it a few times, sometimes even on day two if I find no argument worth while and there's no reason I see not too. probably not in this game though too much to work with already.

So, that's part of my reason to returning to RVS. As for voting Nacho. I'm familiar with him, and enjoy him as a player. When I've been scum, or town, with my favorite players I tend to let them live longer than others just because I like playing with them. Basically, my RV is back on Nacho because I do not think anything will come of it. I doubt that anyone else plans on voting him, or that even if one or two do, that he'll be lynched before I sign on again. It seemed like a safe place to park my vote. I also tend to like keeping my vote on someone. I feel safe with it on Nacho. when I don't feel safe with my vote somewhere I don't vote and that makes me unhappy.

So... several reasons actually.

mmm last thing, I found out the Town tell Nacho gets from me and I now try to mix it up in all my games. I'm only semi successful, but suffice it to say that there was not the right circumstance for Nacho to tell my alignment yet anyway.
"If I had to label someone as dangerous, it'd be Pulindar. I have a feeling his scum game is very similar to his town game.... What I think is dangerous about Pulindar is that his scumreads feel so liquid. He can post a wall of questions and decide he doesn't like your answer to one of them and justify a vote on you." ~ Prawneater
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Post Post #87 (ISO) » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:15 pm

Post by silverbullet999 »

@ Die (heheh.. post 69.... sorry)
Die Prediger wrote:But maybe you are scum enough to pile on vote and take someone to L-3, right Thor?

After one post youre capable to know who is or not scum? Or youre just trying to convince the townies to lynch one of them randomly while you and your scum teammate escapes?

unvote
Vote Thor
It was simply your reaction in retaliation that got my attention and i just have a slight gut suspicion of you is all. I don't strongly feel that you are, i just didn't like the response with voting right back at him and such.
If you suspect someone and are on a wagon (as you were/are with Die) and the target is lynched and flipped town...why in the universe would you suspect all the people on that wagon if you believed the person you were voting for seemed suspicious? Yeah, scum vote town but it is a sad truth in this game that town vote town quite a bit too. Unless you can justify something about the way they acted in getting on the wagon that is scummy, simply being on the wagon of a townie lynch is not scummy.

@Thor I didn't really join the wagon.. i was on the wagon when it got started through my RVS If die did got lynched and he was townie.. i would have suspected you a bit and no, and slightly pul. You for pushing it the most, no for having no reason. I don't mean that I would full on believe you two to be mafia. I would just be more... aware and critical of your posts so to speak. I would slightly be suspicious of pul for the bandwagoning. When I say suspicious... let me be clear... I'd say 30 percent suspicious of you and no and 15 percent of pul. Get what I mean?
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Post Post #88 (ISO) » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:18 pm

Post by silverbullet999 »

now i feel you are just being aggressive to find mafia

Laughing Dear sir, if you think I'm aggressive you should wait and see some of the fellows from the "regular" Mafia games here. I'm a pussycat.

As currently stands - clearly [no] is working hard to dig himself a nice hole but I'm still getting such newbish vibes off of him it is hard to read clearly. I'm lukewarm about the timing of Jerako's vote and that right after his claimed need to assess more he promptly hops on what is clearly the hottest wagon around.

The way I see this is that Thor is actually asking questions well, and being pretty laid back. He's addressing issues, but not pushing them harder than he feels they need to be pushed. In all honesty I think he's playing a nice soft game of Mafia so far, getting you guys more used to the climate.

Oh I'm not saying aggressive in a bad way at all. I rather enjoy it and i like the climate of it and I think I would enjoy an even more extreme climate if it occurred.
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Post Post #89 (ISO) » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:25 pm

Post by Nachomamma8 »

Hai Pulindar! :D

Hello all, sorry for the late start. I'm your other friendly neighborhood IC,
here to answer all of your questions about Mafia (even though I've seen Pulindar's done an excellent job of that already). If you wonder what else we're supposed to do, the article that guides my gameplay can be found here: http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... _a_good_IC.

That being said, I'm still a player in this game, and I'm still playing to win. I tend to be a fairly aggressive player, and I'm not planning on letting up on any of you at all. I have the same chance of being scum/town as any of you, so don't call me town just because I'm helpful, and don't call me scum just because I'm the IC :P

Some helpful tips:

1) Posting is important. Sometimes when you log in and check the game, you find yourself drowning in posts and you really don't want to read any of them, and you really don't have anything new to add to the game. In that case, press ctrl+F and search for your name and respond to anything that's directed to you. If there's nothing to respond to, ask a question about something you don't understand or something that seems off to you, even if you're not sure about it. The key is simply to post and stay active, so we don't get you confused with lurking scum.

2) Never ever ever self-hammer. Whether you're scum or town, it's always a bad move. Defending yourself until the end will give your scumbuddies time to divert the lynch or gain town cred for hammering you, or, if you're town, it will help town find the scum; it might even divert the lynch from you and onto the scum who's trying to get you lynched!

3) Always claim before you're lynched; in a newbie game, you shouldn't claim vanilla townie when you're a power role. Determining when to claim is extremely difficult, so a rule of thumb here is claiming when you're at L-1. However, if you divert the lynch without claiming, it's highly recommended doing so. Claiming either outs a power role, or helps scum find one.



My classic IC entry into the game aside, I'm currently in the process of writing a research paper and just posted to show that I'm still around. Expect a post from me tomorrow.
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Post Post #90 (ISO) » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:51 pm

Post by Die Prediger »

Nachomamma8 wrote:
I'm your other friendly neighborhood IC,
here to answer all of your questions about Mafia

3) Always claim before you're lynched; in a newbie game, you shouldn't claim vanilla townie when you're a power role. Determining when to claim is extremely difficult, so a rule of thumb here is claiming when you're at L-1. However, if you divert the lynch without claiming, it's highly recommended doing so. Claiming either outs a power role, or helps scum find one.
Hello Nacho!

I have a
question
so. Lets say youre lynched, but the mod still didnt declare night. Can you post in this period (i think you call it
twilight
), being or not a PR?
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Post Post #91 (ISO) » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:53 pm

Post by Die Prediger »

EBWOP: read:
still didnt declare night
and didnt close the thread
.
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Post Post #92 (ISO) » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:04 pm

Post by Pulindar »

First off
IC noteIn rules 8 & 9 VRK states that you may indeed post a small Bah post after you are lynched, and that all players may post in twilight.


HI NACHO (as I said in glitch, you're one of the best players I've played with.
Nacho wrote: 2) Never ever ever self-hammer. Whether you're scum or town, it's always a bad move. Defending yourself until the end will give your scumbuddies time to divert the lynch or gain town cred for hammering you, or, if you're town, it will help town find the scum; it might even divert the lynch from you and onto the scum who's trying to get you lynched!
Just a note, didn't you do this once yourself??? Then again I think the other lynch at the time may have been KMD, the mafia godfather, and you were just a goon... I forget exactly.
"If I had to label someone as dangerous, it'd be Pulindar. I have a feeling his scum game is very similar to his town game.... What I think is dangerous about Pulindar is that his scumreads feel so liquid. He can post a wall of questions and decide he doesn't like your answer to one of them and justify a vote on you." ~ Prawneater
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Post Post #93 (ISO) » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:22 pm

Post by silverbullet999 »

Hello all, sorry for the late start.
Hello nacho :D, I forgive you

I'm helpful, and don't call me scum just because I'm the IC Razz
I think nacho is scum and needs to be lynched asap!!!

:P
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Post Post #94 (ISO) » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:46 pm

Post by AurorusVox »

[joke]FoS Nacho for having a nice avatar[/joke]

So we're just waiting on HipHop to speak up now, eh?

Thor, I get that [no] might just be a new player, and not have realised he was putting someone at L-1 and not realised that he needed to give his reasons for his vote.

Except...well, I'm not getting a totally newbie vibe from [no] - after all, he said that he's "played elsewhere, though this is his first time on this site" (I paraphrased). His posts seem more intelligent/knowledgeable of the game than his first actions do...

How far does someone's "newbie" status affect your interaction with them in this game? By interaction, I mean not only your direct and indirect conversational interaction with them, but also your willingness to suspect them and so on.
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Post Post #95 (ISO) » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:48 am

Post by Thor665 »

AurorusVox wrote:[joke]Thor, I get that [no] might just be a new player...

Except...well, I'm not getting a totally newbie vibe from [no] - after all, he said that he's "played elsewhere, though this is his first time on this site" (I paraphrased). His posts seem more intelligent/knowledgeable of the game than his first actions do...
Congratulations, you have just moved up my scum list a little. As a prize I present to you a link showing what [no] actually said. He's played one game elsewhere, that's not a lot of experience. Also, coming from another site who knows what the meta there is like or how they handle/instruct newbies and quickhammers?

If you disagree with me, please provide the posts [no] has made that suggests his knowledgable status about Mafia.
How far does someone's "newbie" status affect your interaction with them in this game? By interaction, I mean not only your direct and indirect conversational interaction with them, but also your willingness to suspect them and so on.
100%

If I think someone is newbie then that is part of my read of who they are. If something affects my read of who they are and how they act it affects my scumdar (a fashionable scum radar) in an absolute sense. I am also affected if I believe there are language barriers (is English their first language). This is why I already said early that I was having a hard time seeing through the cloud of newbie reads on [no] to decide if they were scum reads. He has done things that, if he was an experienced player, I would have already absolutely tried to lynch him over. But he's not an experienced player and consequently I have to consider that in my judgment.
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Post Post #96 (ISO) » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:03 am

Post by silverbullet999 »

Maybe it's just me but I do feel a bit suspicious still of no. If he didn't have 3 votes on him already I would have thrown my vote on him. A mistake of a fourth vote without reason just seems too much of a mistake to be blamed on newbieness alone. I don't believe I would have done it if I was in the same spot and this is my first game. I feel it's one of two things, maybe it is just a newbie mistake... or its a newbie scum mistake. Since we aren't anywhere near our deadline I'm going to hold off and see how this plays out.
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Post Post #97 (ISO) » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:17 am

Post by Pulindar »

Vote Jerako
"If I had to label someone as dangerous, it'd be Pulindar. I have a feeling his scum game is very similar to his town game.... What I think is dangerous about Pulindar is that his scumreads feel so liquid. He can post a wall of questions and decide he doesn't like your answer to one of them and justify a vote on you." ~ Prawneater
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Post Post #98 (ISO) » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:33 am

Post by AurorusVox »

Pulindar, care to explain your reasons for your vote? I called [no] out on voting without saying anything, so it would be hypocritical of me to not extend you the same courtesy.
Thor665 wrote:If you disagree with me, please provide the posts [no] has made that suggests his knowledgable status about Mafia.
[no] wrote:That isn't a retraction of my weak FoS. I'm wondering why he thought it was suspicious to answer a question intended for someone else. It seems it was a lame attempt to get people to jump on that bandwagon.
I'm basing my read of him as having
more experience than a newbie who would make mistakes like he has done
from his use of terminology; I paid particular attention to the fact that he has said "weak FoS" instead of just simply "FoS", which indicates at least some degree of competence and experience with the game.

I'm not saying he's not a newbie, but I don't think he's newbie
enough
to legitimately make a mistake like putting someone at L-1 so soon into the game, especially considering the experience he
does
have is from another forum (my personal experience of forum mafia is that things go a lot slower in that format than in chat or real-time, for example).

My reasons are therefore twofold, taking some evidence from his own post, and some evidence from my own interaction with forum mafia. That said, I do get your point about not knowing how mafia is played on the specific forum he has had experience with, and this is a point which I happily and readily concede.
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Post Post #99 (ISO) » Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:05 am

Post by [no] »

but i just played one game there. and i did terribly. also, the rules of those games doesn't allow an automatic lynch once a majority has been reached, you have to wait until 5PM EST (the night phase) to wait for the lynch. until then, it doesn't matter how many votes they have on you.

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