Mini 949 - Rainbow Robot Unicorn Attack! - Over

[LlamaFluff]

Llama - I don't let people tell me where my vote goes.

Do you honestly think that ani is going to be lynched today?

Ani is lurking more then usual. I saw him posting elsewhere and ignoring this game.

Would you vote for ani over EB? Over dram?

[Seacore]

Ani is lurking more then usual. I saw him posting elsewhere and ignoring this game.

But don't you find it odd that Vas first admitted to doing the exact same thing and then used it as a point against ani?

[dramonic]

I think lurker scumminess is really getting old in this game -_-

[Vi]

And that whole attack on ani at the beginning based on that information I have? Right, that's me making stuff up out of whole cloth

Yup, calling out someone for role fishing is scummy. Gotcha.

I'm pretty sure there's a difference between me telling you things and you asking me about things...

Why are you so concerned with telling others how to vote?

It's called "pressure". I'll explain it after the game if you're interested. (no condescension intended)

Your attack on Robocop based on him "not knowing his place in this game" and equating that to him lying about his role is still bad. I'm curious as to what you think of Robocop right now though.

Well, I see stuff like this:

Which I am, a VT. So please, don't waste your or my or anyone elses time by lynching me.

I'm telling you, Dram, don't do it. Just don't. Don't kill me.

And I'm not really sure why he's still alive; nothing but heaps of AtE and a borderline threat. I think he's a good lynch.

"Borderline threat"?
Well, anyway. I'll take another look at the Robocopter and would be fine with additional pressure on him atm.

ElectricBadger - in 171 you said the dramonic wagon was "full of fail". Why?

Did you even look at the wagon? Robo, Ani and Vas?

Normally I don't factor that sort of thing into evaluating wagons...
There's certainly the chance that I'm wrong about at least one of their alignments and usually I want the person being wagoned to do something remotely Townish before moving my vote.

Just for the record, though, what is your opinion on ani and VV?

I am puzzled at how E-Badger didn't bother saying anything about Robocop in his catch-up post 310 in spite of the wagon he was on falling apart. But he decided that a dramonic policy lynch was a good idea (ignoring the claimed Vanilla Townie and apparently-still-scum Robocopter, animorpherv1, TonyMontana, et al) but didn't want to put dramonic at L-1 (which he wouldn't have anyway with his vote). There are a couple of things not adding up here.

Didn't say anything about Robo's wagon falling apart...? Are we reading the same post? Highlights:

Okay, that got really weird really fast. Been pondering it for the last day and I'm still not sure what to make of it.

*I think its because I have absolutely no idea where to start. In the beginning of the thread I felt really lost because it was hard to understand what I should be doing.

I understood my position [in another game] and what I was supposed to do. This is a little more difficult.

I'm confused by this in the wake of your vanilla claim. Why wouldn't you know what you're supposed to be doing?

*checks again*
Nope, I must have been reading something entirely different. Wow.

Not sure how you're calling dramonic a policy lynch - unless you don't think he's done anything scummy? I said we'd have to lynch him at some point - either he's scum, or he's the sort of town scum loves to keep around, so I'm pretty sure he'll be there for LYLO if we reach it without lynching him first. That's not really policy, that's logic - I'd rather keep around scum who are active and posting and use our least informed lynches to get rid of scum like dram. However, Vi's rabid attitude towards Dram is currently making that wagon look kind of unappealing as well.

"Rabid"? I'll have you know that my tags are in the mail, thank y--wait, that's not what I should be focusing on.

I don't remember defending dramonic beyond agreeing with Fluffy that he's more likely to be VI-Town. I've seen dramonic-scum twice and I was impressed at least one of those times. dramonic-Town is very much the opposite. His play has been lacking enough that I've wondered if he's playing himself up, but how often does that happen I mean really.
But ignoring that, if someone you're calling scum is allegedly defending someone, how does that make that someone's wagon unappealing?

----
@@ FOR PEOPLE WHO AREN'T E-BADGER
----

Why is no one commenting on E-Badger vs. Vi?

I'm kind of a big deal. People know me.

I don't particularly care for Seacore's "tell" for E-Badger, considering I just got out of a game where I did everything he said scum wouldn't do.

Well, I got lynched in my other game which took up around 90% of my mafia time. I hopefully have moar time for this game now.

What alignment were you in that game?

I sense that (to borrow another meme) I'm doing it wrong. And I'm becoming increasingly bothered by ani, dramonic, Robocopter, notMaemuki, etc. who are putting the pressure on to be right as early as possible before they live to LyLo. I'll start over-ish again tomorrow.

Open question: How many scum do you think are between {ani, dramonic, Robocopter, hp[leaves]}? It's a third of the roll call, so with no further information one would expect one scum out of three. Considering lurking is anti-Town, etc. I would be rather surprised (and worried) if all of them are Town. *ignores dramonic's recent post *

[LlamaFluff]

Why is no one commenting on E-Badger vs. Vi?

I'm kind of a big deal. People know me.

Im in the slight EB-scum camp, but im not willing to vote for him outside of a deadline situation due to a few hangups im having.

Open question: How many scum do you think are between {ani, dramonic, Robocopter, hp[leaves]}?

I actually would say zero off current reads, and no more then one at the very most. I am completely sold on RC town, and for my own reasons which I will elaborate on later, dram town. Had townish read on mae/hp which still stands, and ani is very slight town.

I would put more on all town than anything else, something like 60-39-1 on none-one-two

Also I just realized we have a twilight that I am thrilled about, since I think there is something that needs to be said during it, but not untill we have reached it

[VasudeVa]

Only have time for a reaction post.

@Seacore: The main difference is this: I'm far too busy to get my thoughts in order to post anything useful during that time since dram's reaction on his wagon is so null and then follows up with more null-ness(and thus leaving my read on him at scum). That and my other game needed me more. So this, to me, justifies my lurkiness. On the other hand, ani doesn't seem so busy since he had been posting alot on not-this-game which worries me.

@Llama: Not likely, but still possible. I'll be around for deadline anyway so I'm using my vote for what I feel is needed pressure on ani.

@Vi: Was town in that game. I was under heavy fire so I had to bring my town A-game and completely focus on that game(even procrastinate on some IRL stuff). Still failed miserably due to good scumplay and bad townplay.

[Seacore]

So because you know your life and your priorities you assume that we should trust that you are trying to be town, but still lurk.

But we should punish ani for doing so because you don't know his life and his priorities?

[hp [leaves]]

Ok, I don't think Robo is scum. And I don't understand the case about Badger.

Trying to justify lurking is plain pointless and scummy.

See Vas

[farside22]

Llama - I don't let people tell me where my vote goes.

Do you honestly think that ani is going to be lynched today?

Ani is lurking more then usual. I saw him posting elsewhere and ignoring this game.

Would you vote for ani over EB? Over dram?

Not over dram or EB but it's something I'm noticing. As I said I lynched him as scum and town over his play.

[VasudeVa]

@Seacore: In a nutshell, yes. Although it isn't as evil as what you are trying to make it seem. I felt like I needed to wait for reactions to confirm my reads, so I saved you guys from reading useless posts. I learned my lesson from my other game that just lynched me as town D1: Don't do useless posts otherwise town and scum will use it against you and you die.

@Hp: How different was my justification from 'Hey, I was out drinking yesterday' or similar excuses? Can we get a more in-depth post from you? Mae was in my list of probscum(mostly from my lurker paranoia.). Those two tiny posts from you have don't make me feel any better about your slot.

[farside22]

Ani is lurking more then usual. I saw him posting elsewhere and ignoring this game.

But don't you find it odd that Vas first admitted to doing the exact same thing and then used it as a point against ani?

I'm going to wait for Ani to respond to this gam before I respond to this question if you don't mind. There is a reason I'm not berating Vas at the moment.

I declare this:

Ok, I don't think Robo is scum. And I don't understand the case about Badger.

Trying to justify lurking is plain pointless and scummy.

See Vas

The worst vote and reasoning I have seen this game and yes that includes dramo

fos: HP

[farside22]

@Vi: I'm on the fence with the debate between the 2 of you. I know players that pressure others on votes and question them. It depends on what the player says when they vote during the pressure. I think calling EB's vote on RC after Llama said something was hypocritical. However I'm still waiting on EB to answer my question about the difference between calling RC scummy for following and saying it's null when I mention secore doing the same thing. And yes I still find Seacore scummy.

As for the fab four (dramo - townish vibes, RC - town, ani - unsure, hp - scummy vibes see most recent post)

[ElectricBadger]

Unvote, Vote Badger

Llama, how likely did you think it was for Tony to show before Percy after the FAKEDASH move.

Any particular reason for voting me? Something more than 'got a problem with that' would be nice.

Still waiting, Elli.

Please stop stealing cases and using them for yourself as a Get-Out-Of-Jail card. You jut copied otherpeople and voted for me.

Lovely.

It's called "pressure". I'll explain it after the game if you're interested. (no condescension intended)

Yeah, I get what pressure is, thanks. Your constant attempts to call out people for not voting with you doesn't really have that feel though.

I'll take another look at the Robocopter and would be fine with additional pressure on him atm.

You're all over the place with Robo. What's your actual opinion? Is he scum or not?

Normally I don't factor that sort of thing into evaluating wagons...
There's certainly the chance that I'm wrong about at least one of their alignments and usually I want the person being wagoned to do something remotely Townish before moving my vote.

I've played with dramonic a couple times before. Waiting for him to do something townish is an exercise in futility. I saw a better wagon, where my vote would be more useful for pressure - ironically because you asked me about it - and I switched.

Just for the record, though, what is your opinion on ani and VV?

Ani's posts are worthless and I think he's scummy for his initial rolefishing (my calling him out on that started this whole mess). Vas I'm still working on. He seemed slightly scummy at first, although I didn't really feel the case against him much: but in review he seems to've dropped into lurking since then, which gives me misgivings. I think it'll be telling whether he actually picks up activity in this game or is full of BS.

I don't remember defending dramonic beyond agreeing with Fluffy that he's more likely to be VI-Town. I've seen dramonic-scum twice and I was impressed at least one of those times. dramonic-Town is very much the opposite. His play has been lacking enough that I've wondered if he's playing himself up, but how often does that happen I mean really.
But ignoring that, if someone you're calling scum is allegedly defending someone, how does that make that someone's wagon unappealing?

Misrep for distancing, nice. You've been rabid = you've been after dramonic. The opposite of what you tried to say there: you seem to honestly want him dead so I'm inclined to think he's not scum with you, and thus the wagon has less appeal to me. The same thing makes me less suspicious of Seacore.

And I'm becoming increasingly bothered by ani, dramonic, Robocopter, notMaemuki, etc. who are putting the pressure on to be right as early as possible before they live to LyLo.

Don't get what you mean here. "to be right as early as possible"?

Open question: How many scum do you think are between {ani, dramonic, Robocopter, hp[leaves]}?

Robo, possibly +1. Depends a lot how many scum we have, if there's an SK, etc.

What makes you put these names together?

[ElectricBadger]

However I'm still waiting on EB to answer my question about the difference between calling RC scummy for following and saying it's null when I mention secore doing the same thing.

Ahem:

So you're claiming that townies don't repeat cases?

You find Robo scummy for repeating others cases, what is the difference?

I've stated a couple times already that I'm NOT suspicious of Robo for it; but I was already suspicious of him and I don't see the sudden 'ZOMG he's a townie' that everyone else seems to see, which is what I was looking for after the collapsed wagon. I just see re-hashed cases and lots of AtE, which people are citing as 'gut' reads that he's town.

The actual quote that I think you're referring to is this:

Hmm...better post by Robo, mostly just repeating what others have said, though.

I get how you can interpret it as saying the repeating was a scum tell; the initial comment was unclear as to whether I was calling it null or scummy. It's a game about lying, so I can even get that you don't accept my explanation. But saying I'm not answering you is an obvious lie; I've done so several times.

[farside22]

@EB: So the only reason you find RC scummy is because of what he said about not understanding his place in this game?
What did you think about what Vi said and do you still find her scummy?

[ElectricBadger]

@EB: So the only reason you find RC scummy is because of what he said about not understanding his place in this game?

Sigh. No. My reasons:

Fair enough, who is a better lynch though?

Iso of Robo 'cause it's hard to answer without one and I may as well post my reads:

-claims he forgot game (null tell, probably - scum that wants to lurk is more likely to post once or twice and then fade out, like dramonic or Tony, than to just ignore the thread); but rejoins with no commentary of the first 4 pages except the easiest opportunistic vote.
-odd comment on Elli's voting - he admits there's no indication of scum in it, so no reason to say it except to sow general doubt/feel out a potential case; more telling is the bizarre over reaction when questioned about it, which I think is a solid tell.
-defends v. Vi with sarcasm/defensiveness, again not what I'd expect from a townie who wants to get more votes on scum, admits to lack of content but cites again forgetting about the thread (which has nothing to do with it now that he's back and active - amount of effort involved in totalling everyone's votes could have been spent finding something he doesn't dismiss as a non-tell)

Basically he's pushing at players who could have semi-decent cases made against them, but he's not pushing any of that; just spam and over reaction when challenged. Reads as solid scum, I'm just not sure if he's nervous about pushing false cases or is intentionally holding back while bussing scumbuddies.

I also just noticed how absolutely full of fail my current wagon is, so

unvote dramonic

,

vote Robocopter

.

Time for

Mod: Please prod Dramonic

anyways.

BTW, I remarked before this post that robo's information without analysis made pressure votes against him understandable; but note that I didn't include that in my list of reasons for voting him (actually admitting to it is the one town tell I saw), just his horrible excuse about it.

Add to the above his role contradiction (and the fact that he tried to ignore my question about it) and the very weird interactions between him and Vi.

What did you think about what Vi said and do you still find her scummy?

Do you mean something specifically that Vi said? I've been responding to her copiously IMO, to the point where I think I'm tunneling and letting nearly half our players lurk. Reason for that (and how is it not obvious?) is that Yes, I find her scummy.

[farside22]

How was RC's comment towards Elli odd?

more telling is the bizarre over reaction when questioned about it, which I think is a solid tell.

Where do you get this from?

defends v. Vi with sarcasm/defensiveness, again not what I'd expect from a townie who wants to get more votes on scum

I didn't see all his defense as sarcastic. Aren't most players defensive when questioned?

Basically he's pushing at players who could have semi-decent cases made against them, but he's not pushing any of that; just spam and over reaction when challenged.

I really don't see anything in his post as an over reaction. Please quote which post you get this from.

[hp [leaves]]

I declare this:

snip

The worst vote and reasoning I have seen this game and yes that includes dramo

fos: HP

From my point of view; when a townie is accused of lurking, he would simply apologize and try to be more active whereas scum would try to justify his lurking, to be able to lurk more.

[Robocopter87]

I really wasn't able to post if I wanted too. I didn't know ahead of time so I couldn't tell the Mod or you people. I'm sorry I wasn't able to post. Going to post my case on seacore next post. Hold me to it.

[ElectricBadger]

How was RC's comment towards Elli odd?

Normally when players are voted they ask for reasoning, respond to reasoning or ignore it...complaining that the attacker votes too often is odd, especially when he concludes "The amount of votes mean nothing."

Where do you get this from?

This, as I explain here. And a review of all the votes in the game to clarify a two word comment was an over reaction, especially considering how little he was posting at the time.

I didn't see all his defense as sarcastic. Aren't most players defensive when questioned?

Look here. Mostly a tone thing for me. He answered Elli similarly as well, in iso 1.

I really don't see anything in his post as an over reaction. Please quote which post you get this from.

His iso 2. And he was spending some time nearly post complaining about Elli's vote against him. He continued to do the same sort of thing later as well, iso 17 he reacts to your request for a game analysis with "Do you want me to go through this whole game with a notepad?" A general sense of his defending himself by making everyone examining him seem like they're unreasonable.

So where was all this analysis of Robo's wagon and defense when he was about to be lynched? Was mine the weakest case against him?

Going to post my case on seacore next post. Hold me to it.

Will do.

[LlamaFluff]

I declare this:

Ok, I don't think Robo is scum. And I don't understand the case about Badger.

Trying to justify lurking is plain pointless and scummy.

See Vas

The worst vote and reasoning I have seen this game and yes that includes dramo

fos: HP

I have to agree with this a bit. That vote just blows by a whole lot of key points to latch onto one of my town reads for a very weak reason.

@hp - Thoughts on... dram? Vi-EB? TM? farside-me?

[farside22]

I can't say I agree with your reasoning there EB. I don't see the over reaction. Sarcasm I relate to but I don't see it scummy. I do agree that his post calling Elli out on his voting pattern is odd but I don't see how that is scummy either.

Now back to my 2 issues on you. One is Vi: Do you think it's scummy for Vi to be pushing you on your vote? Why is that scummy?
Why did you have your vote on Dramo for so long and have only looked on RC most of the game?
I reread you Vi post and I still don't see why you find her scummy except for asking you repeatedly about a vote. How is that scummy?

[dramonic]

I declare this:

Ok, I don't think Robo is scum. And I don't understand the case about Badger.

Trying to justify lurking is plain pointless and scummy.

See Vas

The worst vote and reasoning I have seen this game and yes that includes dramo

fos: HP

I have to agree with this a bit. That vote just blows by a whole lot of key points to latch onto one of my town reads for a very weak reason.

@hp - Thoughts on... dram? Vi-EB? TM? farside-me?

any reasons for the pairings?

[LlamaFluff]

@hp - Thoughts on... dram? Vi-EB? TM? farside-me?

any reasons for the pairings?

Big topics of conversation. He skipped over all of them too much for me.

[Vi]

Quick post to respond to E-Badger--

*Those four were placed together because they are the collective of total lurkers. You know, the people you said want to lynch before they do more damage later. Believe it or not, I do read your posts

in some capacity

.
*My opinion of Robocopter needs to be reviewed. I read VI on him and jumped off the wagon. I see your criticism that he hasn't done anything since having pressure taken off and I'd like to look at it for myself to see if he's worth revisiting. Again, I'm reading your posts. There's a reason I stopped attacking you at full capacity.
*Your attempts to reactively build your reads around me betrays an abject lack of knowledge of my scum meta. Or making excuses for keeping your scumpartners out of sight, to take the cynical route.
*I'll talk about an application of vote-related pressure as when another game is over.

Question: Do you think people intentionally lie about things that can be readily checked?