Square Enix Mafia I: Diabolus Erus (GAME OVER)

[Devotress]

Not to say I don't want to lynch him tomorrow. But the whole "let's lynch him tomorrow" thing came out of me wanting to avoid messing up on a death miller and having false info.

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Vote Count:

Iecerint: 5

(KDub, Glork, MehPlusRawr, dramonic, Chronopie, JPSalazar)

PranaDevil: 4

(inHimshallibe, Iecerint, Starbuck, Nautilus)

Glork: 2

(Zodiark13)

Zodiark13: 2

(Devotress, FC Groningen)

Chronopie: 2

(WorseExcuse, bill1148)

bv310: 1

(wolframnhart)

Antifinity: 1

(bv310)

Not Voting:

Antifinity
killa seven
PranaDevil

Lynch:

11 votes.

Deadline:

May 2nd - 5:40 PM EST

[Devotress]

^ Was an EBWOP of my post at the end of the last page.

[PranaDevil]

How is it flimsy? Besides the flavor clearly stating it, did you not take elementary science? What happens when a lightning bolt hits ANYTHING?

That's beside the point, it's flimsy because he's claimed sodding Ramah! It hasn't been contested (and if he's lying... no, the real one shouldn't step forward until it's worth doing so), and thus he's not going to be scum in this game. Thus it's flimsy logic to focus on a good guy.

[Iecerint]

What happens if you weren't aware that your target would be sent associated flavor?

I could feasibly see you making a fake Death Miller claim without knowing I would be sent anything, and then going "ohshit" when I claimed the goop/Blindness flavor.

If I'm an SK, I probably killed N0. If I killed N0, I probably didn't blind anyone N0. So unless I can do both of those in a single night, I'm probably not SK -- and the kill flavor doesn't fit Ultros, anyway, IIRC.

If I'm scum, I'm either really gambiting as GF (since the flip will equivocably show I'm realScum), or I'm gambiting by lying about how I check to Cops.

[Iecerint]

(Relevance being that neither point is affected by your point AFAIK.)

[inHimshallibe]

I will catch up and reply after work.

[Kise]

Mod: Can you please update the first post to reflect my entrance into the game? TY. <3

I was at a library yesterday and it was banning the 1st page of the thread due to spanish pornography... No clue, but trust me, I didn't forget about ya.

[wolframnhart]

Kise was watching Spanish Porno? That's so awesome.

[Kise]

Nuh uh! The web filter just didn't know what it was talking about. I swea.... I promise.

[Kdub]

How is it flimsy? Besides the flavor clearly stating it, did you not take elementary science? What happens when a lightning bolt hits ANYTHING?

That's beside the point, it's flimsy because he's claimed sodding Ramah! It hasn't been contested (and if he's lying... no, the real one shouldn't step forward until it's worth doing so), and thus he's not going to be scum in this game. Thus it's flimsy logic to focus on a good guy.

Ramuh could be a safeclaim. I'm not saying he is scum, but it's pretty weak to assume that someone is telling the truth simply because they claim a character and are not counterclaimed.

[PranaDevil]

How is it flimsy? Besides the flavor clearly stating it, did you not take elementary science? What happens when a lightning bolt hits ANYTHING?

That's beside the point, it's flimsy because he's claimed sodding Ramah! It hasn't been contested (and if he's lying... no, the real one shouldn't step forward until it's worth doing so), and thus he's not going to be scum in this game. Thus it's flimsy logic to focus on a good guy.

Ramuh could be a safeclaim. I'm not saying he is scum, but it's pretty weak to assume that someone is telling the truth simply because they claim a character and are not counterclaimed.

Agreed, but it's just as weak to assume someone's not telling the truth purely because "they're lightning based".

He might be a completely different character, I wont deny that, however I will not lynch him based on "he's claimed a lightning character, someone died by lightning". That's just putting 2 and 2 together to make 5. If later on more attention is drawn that way for other reasons, then it's time to consider his lying, but not right off the bat.

I'd rather either lynch someone based on play, or based on stronger flavour than that, which is why I'm still somewhat fine with the Iec lynch (yet I still need to do that bigger read through, apologies for not doing so yet).

[Kdub]

I'm wondering why you were trying to get focus off of Dramonic because he claimed an uncontested character, then when I point out that the claim doesn't necessarily mean anything, you instantly agree. Why even make the argument in the first place then?

[Glork]

How is it flimsy? Besides the flavor clearly stating it, did you not take elementary science? What happens when a lightning bolt hits ANYTHING?

That's beside the point, it's flimsy because he's claimed sodding Ramah! It hasn't been contested (and if he's lying... no, the real one shouldn't step forward until it's worth doing so), and thus he's not going to be scum in this game. Thus it's flimsy logic to focus on a good guy.

Robo was scum in Chrono Trigger Mafia.

Why exactly should "Ramuh is a freaking good guy" mean anything?

[wolframnhart]

same could be said about the harry potter mafia i keep hearing about.

[PranaDevil]

How is it flimsy? Besides the flavor clearly stating it, did you not take elementary science? What happens when a lightning bolt hits ANYTHING?

That's beside the point, it's flimsy because he's claimed sodding Ramah! It hasn't been contested (and if he's lying... no, the real one shouldn't step forward until it's worth doing so), and thus he's not going to be scum in this game. Thus it's flimsy logic to focus on a good guy.

Robo was scum in Chrono Trigger Mafia.

Why exactly should "Ramuh is a freaking good guy" mean anything?

In that instance then, all flavour should be discounted, and we can ignore the Iec wagon completely because it means nothing as well. Or are we saying it counts in one direction, and not the other?

What's more... I've never played Chrono Trigger, so that's meaningless to me. I'm going off this game and what I know so far.

@kdub, I agree with the fact it doesn't mean he's cleared. I do not agree that it instantly makes it a worthy lync based on the flavour, they're two seperate issues completely.

[Glork]

No, flavour should NOT be discounted, because it can lead us to which players took anti-town decisions.

I'd give a greater than 90% chance that both N1 kills were from scum. It is equally likely that whomever blinded me is not protown. Using flavor can help us determine WHO IS MOST LIKELY TO BE SCUM. That's the whole POINT of this type of flavor discussion, so you can't just say it's useless.



You're so full of shit, it's not even funny.

[PranaDevil]

I wasn't saying it was useless, I was pointing out how stupid your comment was.

It's like you're saying flavour in one direction is "good" and flavour in another direction is "bad".

Ramah is most likely to be good, any denying on that? No? Good. Therefore it's logical to consider that Ramah is unlikely to be on the mafia side... thus it's going to be completely bloody stupid to push a lynch on a guy who's claimed Ramah "'cuz Ramah is lightning n stuffs".

So yes, the logic in lynching a guy who claimed Ramah is flimsy until more information is gotten.

It is completely a different matter with Iec and the Ultros claim... however the more this goes on, the more I'm wondering if old Ultros got targetted last night, and someone got ink in the fact from the targetting.

As I see no other reason you're blatantly twisting what I'm saying to such an extent that it becomes the opposite of my point, unless you are scum deliberately doing so.

[Glork]

Ramah is most likely to be good, any denying on that? No? Good. Therefore it's logical to consider that Ramah is unlikely to be on the mafia side... thus it's going to be completely bloody stupid to push a lynch on a guy who's claimed Ramah "'cuz Ramah is lightning n stuffs".

So yes, the logic in lynching a guy who claimed Ramah is flimsy until more information is gotten.

You were the one who went "he claimed sodding Ramuh" and "he hasn't been counterclaimed" and "don't waste your time on a claimed 'good guy.'"

I'm the one who's saying "goodguy/badguy from the video games means nothing, but we can use flavor connections in the mafia game to figure out who is likely to be scum."



I'm going to state this as clearly as I possibly can, because if you are protown, you need to understand it as soon as humanly possible.

The good/bad nature of ANY character from the video games has

NOTHING

to do with their alignment in this game. The only use for flavor is to figure out who committed what actions, or who may be lying about their own actions.

[Glork]

Ramah is most likely to be good, any denying on that? No? Good. Therefore it's logical to consider that Ramah is unlikely to be on the mafia side... thus it's going to be completely bloody stupid to push a lynch on a guy who's claimed Ramah "'cuz Ramah is lightning n stuffs".

So yes, the logic in lynching a guy who claimed Ramah is flimsy until more information is gotten.

No, you were the one who went "he claimed sodding Ramuh" and "he hasn't been counterclaimed" and "don't waste your time on a claimed 'good guy.'"

I'm the one who's saying "goodguy/badguy from the video games means nothing, but we can use flavor connections in the mafia game to figure out who is likely to be scum."



I'm going to state this as clearly as I possibly can, because if you are protown, you need to understand it as soon as humanly possible.

The good/bad nature of ANY character from the video games has

NOTHING

to do with their alignment in this game. The only use for flavor is to figure out who committed what actions, or who may be lying about their own actions.

[Iecerint]

The good/bad nature of ANY character from the video games has

NOTHING

to do with their alignment in this game. The only use for flavor is to figure out who committed what actions, or who may be lying about their own actions.

I don't disagree with you in principle, but you're overstating it a little. Namely, it's not impossible that scum lack fakeclaims in a mini where the number of potentials roles are as large as this, and pro-town roles in-game tend on average to map onto pro-town on MS (high profile exception like HP mafia sort-of notwithstanding).

[Glork]

The good/bad nature of ANY character from the video games has

NOTHING

to do with their alignment in this game. The only use for flavor is to figure out who committed what actions, or who may be lying about their own actions.

I don't disagree with you in principle, but you're overstating it a little. Namely, it's not impossible that scum lack fakeclaims in a mini where the number of potentials roles are as large as this, and pro-town roles in-game tend on average to map onto pro-town on MS (high profile exception like HP mafia sort-of notwithstanding).

I guess I draw different lines when it comes to flavor discussions. I've seen more than enough games go both ways that I never head into a game with premonitions that "good = protown" (or otherwise, for that matter). Even if site meta says "good guys tend to be protown," I feel that each game is independent of the last. I don't think a sitewide meta applies to this particular issue, but we may have to agree to disagree.

[FC Groningen]

I'm going to state this as clearly as I possibly can, because if you are protown, you need to understand it as soon as humanly possible.

The good/bad nature of ANY character from the video games has

NOTHING

to do with their alignment in this game. The only use for flavor is to figure out who committed what actions, or who may be lying about their own actions.

Can't it be both? (good/bad nature + flavor) It might be a bit premature to assume nature isn't part of their alignment.

Also, we've talked a lot about the "blind" and the "electrocuted" already, but what about the other night kill? The "Reduced to nothing"? Any leads on that?

[Glork]

Someone mentioned Exdeath, which makes enough sense to me. I haven't played Dissidia Final Fantasy, so I'm willing to sit and listen.

[Kdub]

It's like you're saying flavour in one direction is "good" and flavour in another direction is "bad".

But aren't you saying the same thing, just in the opposite sense? You are saying someone is likely town for flavor reasons (they claimed a good guy), then you say other flavor (the lightning thing) is not a good reason to suspect him. That is what I was getting at.

FWIW, I don't really agree with Glork's argument here. We have evidence from the flips of two players that alignment in this game is related to flavor. It's not proof that all characters follow this, but it's more likely than not.

[dramonic]

The "Reduced to nothing"? Any leads on that?

Well, the flavour kill I'm not sure. The white tornado though does NOT sound like Exdeath in any way, shape or form to me. Let's agree it's not white wind.

White tornado -> Barbariccia anyone?