Mini 945: Mafia in Bawlmer - GAME OVER

[Cyberbob]

At the moment I do not think today is the right day to lynch dramonic, though I really do want more content from him (along with like half the other players in the game, to be fair).

[Cyberbob]

At this stage the largest discussion that has taken place today has been my argument with Macavity. That's kind of depressing (yes I know I said I'd do that reread of people's behaviour towards DC and yes I will get around to it ).

[Chevre]

Are you saddened that nobody jumped on your fishing for votes/testing the waters for my lynch?

I'm confused. Are you referring to the vote before your post? Because that's only three hours, and I don't jump that fast.

[StrangerCoug]

Time to elaborate on my MacavityLock suspicions.

Lock's iso1 is a terribly hypocritical vote.

It was a semi-random page 2 vote based on 3 worthless, contentless posts that didn't even contain so much as a random vote.

OK, this looks fine by itself. The problem here, is this:

Starting in 8 he keeps pushing a wagon on my pred even though he never added anything to his initial reasoning.

Doesn't mean I didn't have reasons for it, most specifically the contentlessness together with the L-1 vote in record time, which I did clarify in my iso 11.

It's not clear to me when the "semi-random" bit of your vote reason goes away, MacavityLock. I'd expect something between your ISO 1 and 8 as to why you believe Sidekick was scum. As for the L-1 vote, yes, I would have liked more out of Sidekick as to why he put DiamondCrash at L-1 without letting him claim. And yes, I would have bought that rolefishing warranted such a vote if it was backed up with an explanation as to why. I think you're pushing Sidekick, and therefore Ythan, a little too hard here.

In 9 he adds another flimsy case to his portfolio, on Chevre.

And I've still got my eye out Chevre, thank you very much.

This comes off to me as being flippant instead of actually defending the Chevre case. (And yes, the Chevre case is weak. In my opinion, it's also invalid if xvart is town.)

You say I'm coaching, I say you're asking loaded questions.

By the way, if I am coaching Ythan, doesn't that mean that he's necessarily scumbuddies with me?

I've coached town as scum. So no.

xvart is my other suspect.

Do you think that the DiamondCrash thing is failtown or scum?
Can you list the two players you're most suspicious of and why?
How would you describe your mafia playstyle?

1. Failtown; scum would have no reason to out who they think is the cop. They can take care of that with a NK.

This is a bit problematic for me, mostly because it has been proven to not necessarily be true—DiamondCrash flipped scum and I am still alive. Perhaps scum has somebody else on their side as their roleblocker, but what makes somewhat more sense to me as to why I'm breathing is that DiamondCrash made me too obvious of a protection target and opted to get rid of someone else.

Hello, I think xvart is scum because of his flip on DC between iso10 and iso11.

Vote: xvart

Are you saddened that nobody jumped on your fishing for votes/testing the waters for my lynch?

Appealing to emotion.

If I were a double voter, I'd vote them both right now, but sadly I have to settle for a

vote: Macavitylock

and an

FoS: xvart

.

[MacavityLock]

Sorry, busy weekend, so I've got a bit to catch up on. I took a look at the claim etc, and I have no major issues with anyone hammering DC. The saying "doc" instead of "cop" issue is much bigger for me than the "I claim..." issue, but yeah, not really believable.

Slightly confused here. You said you were rushed, but yet you looked at the claim and were OK with a DC lynch. So why didn't you lynch him yourself?

At that point, xvart was offering to hammer in a few hours. There were more people who had yet to weigh in on the DC hammer. (In fact, both Cyberbob and Dizzle offered their opinions of DC's claim after this post.) I didn't feel like there was anything to gain from hammering straight away.

In fact, now that I think about it, why didn't you ask the same question to Cyberbob and/or Dizzle? Both of them checked in right after me, gave their approval for the lynch, but didn't hammer.

Now checking back on it myself, I can understand not asking Dizzle, who talked about waiting for the Sidekick replacement, similar to what I said actually. But Cyberbob made no such noises about delay for replacement. Why specifically question me on this when I wasn't the only one to do this?

----

It's not clear to me when the "semi-random" bit of your vote reason goes away, MacavityLock. I'd expect something between your ISO 1 and 8 as to why you believe Sidekick was scum.

Fair question. It was at the time of my iso 8, which was my first post after the L-1 vote. I realize now that I should have elaborated at the time, but I didn't. Not sure what else I can say other than that the L-1 vote together with low content really struck me as scummy.

In 9 he adds another flimsy case to his portfolio, on Chevre.

And I've still got my eye out Chevre, thank you very much.

This comes off to me as being flippant instead of actually defending the Chevre case. (And yes, the Chevre case is weak. In my opinion, it's also invalid if xvart is town.)

Because at that point Chevre hadn't posted at all during Day 2 due to a V/LA. You're right, all I have on Chevre (until my above question) is Day 1 and gut.

You say I'm coaching, I say you're asking loaded questions.

By the way, if I am coaching Ythan, doesn't that mean that he's necessarily scumbuddies with me?

I've coached town as scum. So no.

Fine, whatever. I'll say it again: I wasn't coaching, I was trying to figure out Cyberbob's loaded question.

[xvart]

This is a bit problematic for me, mostly because it has been proven to not necessarily be true—DiamondCrash flipped scum and I am still alive. Perhaps scum has somebody else on their side as their roleblocker, but what makes somewhat more sense to me as to why I'm breathing is that DiamondCrash made me too obvious of a protection target and opted to get rid of someone else.

There could be countless reasons why you are not dead: maybe the scum don't think you are actually a cop; maybe they were worried about a doctor protection; maybe they wanted to cast suspicion on me and/or you; maybe any other reason.

Are you saddened that nobody jumped on your fishing for votes/testing the waters for my lynch?

I'm confused. Are you referring to the vote before your post? Because that's only three hours, and I don't jump that fast.

I find it suspicious when someone posts something that looks like gauging the waters on a possible wagon when followed up almost immediately with a vote. Why didn't Drizzle just vote the first time around? Nothing changed in the two posts sandwiched between his two.

re: dramonic lynch today - it was basically decided that he would have to die sooner or later so why keep pushing off as we may get closer and closer to LYLO? And, it is still highly suspicious of a miller claim and could possibly be scum. Does no one else think that running a wagon on dramonic could be a bad thing right now?

xvart.

[dramonic]

Actually as long as we lynch scum were not getting closer to lylo

[Dizzle]

Are you saddened that nobody jumped on your fishing for votes/testing the waters for my lynch?

I'm confused. Are you referring to the vote before your post? Because that's only three hours, and I don't jump that fast.

I find it suspicious when someone posts something that looks like gauging the waters on a possible wagon when followed up almost immediately with a vote. Why didn't Drizzle just vote the first time around? Nothing changed in the two posts sandwiched between his two.

You might have a point here if a wagon formed in between my posts but no such wagon appeared. I was the first vote on xvart and he's pretty much avoided all other suspicion until SC's recent FoS.

[Konowa]

Vote Count 2.2

MacavityLock (3): Cyberbob, Ythan, StrangerCoug
Cyberbob (1): MacavityLock
xvart (1): Dizzle
dramonic (1): xvart

Not Voting (4): Apayah, dramonic, Chevre, Netopalis

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Deadline is April 23rd, 6PM GMT-4.

Prodding:

V/LA:

[xvart]

You might have a point here if a wagon formed in between my posts but no such wagon appeared. I was the first vote on xvart and he's pretty much avoided all other suspicion until SC's recent FoS.

So what changed in between your two posts that solidified the vote? Why didn't you just vote in the first place?

xvart.

[Chevre]

In fact, now that I think about it, why didn't you ask the same question to Cyberbob and/or Dizzle? Both of them checked in right after me, gave their approval for the lynch, but didn't hammer.

If you would've done it first, there would've been no need. But yes, now that you mention it, they did.

xvart: thank you for clarifying.

[StrangerCoug]

I'll say it again: I wasn't coaching, I was trying to figure out Cyberbob's loaded question.

I was answering what I took as an open question by denying that you have to be scum with Ythan to coach him. The answer does not say either way that you're coaching.

There could be countless reasons why you are not dead: maybe the scum don't think you are actually a cop; maybe they were worried about a doctor protection; maybe they wanted to cast suspicion on me and/or you; maybe any other reason.

More ammo for me. You implied that, after I supposedly slipped, DiamondCrash-scum would have better reason to kill me than to publicly guess at my role. Why are the other options only occurring to you now, after the fact?

[MacavityLock]

In fact, now that I think about it, why didn't you ask the same question to Cyberbob and/or Dizzle? Both of them checked in right after me, gave their approval for the lynch, but didn't hammer.

If you would've done it first, there would've been no need. But yes, now that you mention it, they did.

That doesn't answer my question. Why did you specifically ask me about this? Also, why would

I

have asked about it? You're the one who thinks it was/might have been scummy.

[Ythan]

You're asking why she specifically asked you? Are you suspicious of her? If not, why are you asking?

[MacavityLock]

The fact that she asked me about not hammering DC and did not ask Cyberbob and Dizzle when they did the exact same thing is an inconsistency. Yes, that makes me suspicious of her.

[xvart]

More ammo for me. You implied that, after I supposedly slipped, DiamondCrash-scum would have better reason to kill me than to publicly guess at my role. Why are the other options only occurring to you now, after the fact?

I am having trouble following the purpose behind your line of questioning so if this isn't clear I'll do my best to rectify. First, are you asking me to justify or explain the scum NK? At the time, my justification for DC being a stupid town was because I wouldn't think that a scum would draw attention to someone that could have slipped and cop announced themselves.

Or, are you asking me to explain why I didn't hypothesize out why you might be alive in advance, should DC flip scum and you still be alive today? First, at the time of the comment I didn't expect DC to flip scum (hence the reason I said failtown) and had no reason to suspect you actually being in danger. The reason the other options are just now occurring to me is because they didn't become relevant (and aren't really anyway IMO) until now.

Mod: I will have limited access until Sunday. I will have access and try and post a little.

xvart.

[StrangerCoug]

More ammo for me. You implied that, after I supposedly slipped, DiamondCrash-scum would have better reason to kill me than to publicly guess at my role. Why are the other options only occurring to you now, after the fact?

I am having trouble following the purpose behind your line of questioning so if this isn't clear I'll do my best to rectify. First, are you asking me to justify or explain the scum NK? At the time, my justification for DC being a stupid town was because I wouldn't think that a scum would draw attention to someone that could have slipped and cop announced themselves.

Or, are you asking me to explain why I didn't hypothesize out why you might be alive in advance, should DC flip scum and you still be alive today? First, at the time of the comment I didn't expect DC to flip scum (hence the reason I said failtown) and had no reason to suspect you actually being in danger. The reason the other options are just now occurring to me is because they didn't become relevant (and aren't really anyway IMO) until now.

I was looking for something closer to an explanation than a justification. While the 180°-turn you made is noteworthy, that specifically bothered me.

[Chevre]

This game is sooooo dying.

Vote: MacavityLock

[Ythan]

If everyone could very briefly explain their vote in their next post.

[Chevre]

I believe it's self explanatory, but mine is to jumpstart discussion somehow. Your way however, is a little more sophisticated.

[Ythan]

Could you briefly explain why you specifically chose Lock for your jumpstart vote?

[Chevre]

Because he is my biggest suspicion.

[Ythan]

He's mine as well, but the purpose of my question was to get each player to commit to a specific rationalization.

[StrangerCoug]

If everyone could very briefly explain their vote in their next post.

MacavityLock has made some weak as heck cases on Sidekick and Chevre.

[MacavityLock]

I believe it's self explanatory, but mine is to jumpstart discussion somehow. Your way however, is a little more sophisticated.

No, it really isn't self-explanatory. Thus far, you've said that the following is why I'm scummy:

For what I commented on earlier about the hammer (although that's decently explained) and what you've done today.

You haven't said anything about what I've been doing today, nor why it's scummy. You thought that my failing to hammer issue was scummy (and didn't say why), but did not find either Cyberbob or Dizzle scummy for doing the exact same thing. When questioned about it, you said the following

If you would've done it first, there would've been no need. But yes, now that you mention it, they did.

This a) admits that they did the same as I, b) doesn't answer why you failed to find this scummy coming from people other than me, and c) attempts to turn the question back on me.

The vote on me is poor, hidden under the guise of "discussion", and when questioned about it, your responses aren't answers, they're brush-offs.

Unvote. Vote: Chevre.

----

Ythan, I still don't see how I was twisting what Cyberbob was saying. He even admitted that he said exactly what I said he did.

Well my specific wording was "explain the points against him" so I can see where ML might get that from. Either way I still don't see it as a loaded question.

Our interpretations may differ, that's fine. But how was I twisting anything?

----

MacavityLock has made some weak as heck cases on Sidekick and Chevre.

How was my Sidekick case weak? Uselessness and potential quicklynching seem pretty darn good for a Day 1 case. More than 1 person agreed with me on it Day 1.

And yes, I've already said that I had no case on Chevre. (I do now, but that doesn't enter into it.) I didn't have a vote on her Day 1, she wasn't ever in the top 2 of my scumlist Day 1. I had gut, and said as much.