Pick Your Power III: A Brave New World

[SerialClergyman]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 12

Dramonic

- 3 - mb53, Ellibereth, Fate - (L-9)

Fate

- 1 - Socrates - (L-11)

Hoopla

- 1 - Zang - (L-11)

Manho

- 4 - PranaDevil, Pomegranate, Parama, Sando - (L-8)

mb53

- 1 - CryMeARiver - (L-11)

Pomegranate

- 4 - SerialClergyman, Hoopla, Faraday, Porkens - (L-8)

PranaDevil

- 1 - Dramonic - (L-11)

sorasgoof

- 2 - Super Awesome Mega Pimp!, DrippingGoofball - (L-10)

Players not voting: 12keyblade, Budja, Manho, sorasgoof, Zoiaum

Also, I was thinking overnight that I wouldn't be surprised if one scum was in the 'absent from queue thread' group, given that it means they are able to choose their numbers without openly rejecting the dice roll plan.

[Pomegranate]

Aye.

And why am I scum? You must be mistaking me for Hoopla.

# # Vote: Hoopla

.

Still, a strong

FoS on manho

still stands,

[manho]

the "massclaiming now?" vote count

aye

(10): manho, Fate, Porkens, dramonic, Zang, sorasgoof, Super Awesome Mega Pimp!, CryMeARiver, Faraday, mb53

nay

(4): Hoopla, PranaDevil, Sando, SerialClergyman

aye needed to massclaim today: 12
nay needed to massclaim later: 11

[manho]

EBWOP, missed the page 14 and pom's vote...

the "massclaiming now?" vote count

aye

(11): manho, Fate, Porkens, dramonic, Zang, sorasgoof, Super Awesome Mega Pimp!, CryMeARiver, Faraday, mb53, Pomegranate

nay

(4): Hoopla, PranaDevil, Sando, SerialClergyman

aye needed to massclaim today: 12
nay needed to massclaim later: 11

shouldn't it be 12 massclaim today and 12 to massclaim later?

no, we need a majority, that's 12, to massclaim today. so if we get 11 nay, then we can't get 12 aye, and we can't have the massclaim today, thus we massclaim later.

[Budja]

V/LA for 24hrs or so.

Not for MC for the record.

[Super Awesome Mega Zord!]

How many times do we have to point out that massclaim is a bad idea. The only people actually providing reasoned arguments for or against happen to be those against.

:I 127, 270

Not so much throw-away snideness, I just think it's a dick thing to do, to be trying to get the people who disagree with you to do something against the rules. I don't think a town player would do it on purpose, I'm not convinced enough that it was on purpose to call scuminess on it.

Considering he used it himself I'm pretty sure he wasn't trying to get anyone modkilled.

[manho]

the "massclaiming now?" vote count

aye

(11): manho, Fate, Porkens, dramonic, Zang, sorasgoof, Super Awesome Mega Pimp!, CryMeARiver, Faraday, mb53, Pomegranate

nay

(5): Hoopla, PranaDevil, Sando, SerialClergyman,
Budja

aye needed to massclaim today: 12
nay needed to massclaim later: 11

[Socrates]

Nah.

[Fate]

SOMEONE HAMMER AYE.

HES SCUM I SWEAR GO QUICK.

Pomegranate vote Dram or Sorasgoof to save yourself ffs.

[Ellibereth]

/not sure yet.
The fact that both my rotten egg reads are voting "aye" makes me uncomfortable.

[Fate]

Ok Ellie, but if we don't MC today can you agree there is very little reason to MC D2 or D3?

Diminished returns ftw.

If we don't to it today when scum no jack *** about the setup (no town flips yet), then we might as well not do it until MyLo.

[Sando]

Ok Ellie, but if we don't MC today can you agree there is very little reason to MC D2 or D3?

Diminished returns ftw.

If we don't to it today when scum no jack *** about the setup (no town flips yet), then we might as well not do it until MyLo.

Lolwat?

Laces are right out of the equation, clearly...

[Fate]

"Laces" what? More Aussie lingo?

Anyway what I'm saying is if we don't MC today I'll be against it every other day until MyLo/LyLo like PYPII.

I just thought Socrates had an interesting-
WAIT.

Socrates said Nah?

WHAT DA HELL??? IT WAS YOUR PLAN!?

[Sando]

You do realise that scum also benefit from a massclaim right? They get to find where all the town-PRs are.

It basically comes down to whether scum are benefiting more than town, and whether that ratio changes based on days.

I think scum get more benefit from a D1 claim compared to D2 claim than town get from a D1 claim compared to a D2 claim.

[Fate]

Explain.

As pointed out before, once someone up top flips, all the scum BELOW THAT PR can claim vanilla to "that" SAFELY.

If we do it today, they have to gamble on a town PR being in the game, or choose a scum PR above them to claim vanilla to, or claim their own role.

ETC. ETC.

Still want to hear back from Socrates on why he's being so useless with a Fate vote and against his own MC idea.

Scum...!? Proposing the random roll to screw over town!?!?

[Sando]

I don't see how scum can ever fake-claim outside of what they have chosen within the scum-group?

I've rethought my view on the Janitor btw. I think we should and can force the Janitor to claim today. First, we tell the Janitor he has to claim. If he does, good, if he's scum he can never use it, if town, well that kinda sucks, but not hugely.

If noone claims, we know scum have it, and we can reasonably assume that a townie tried to get it and didn't. We simply go down the list and ask 'did you choose janitor and get rejected'. First yes and we know scum is above them as Janitor.

Then at a mass-claim, it becomes pretty obvious who's the janitor.

Basically, the scum-janitor can either out themselves and settle for never using it, or almost guarantee their D2 lynch after a MC for 1 nights use of the Janitor ability. Or they can take the risk that literally no townies picked it.

Anyone see any problems?

[Fate]

Parama already claimed the janitor was above him, ftr.

[Sando]

Parama already claimed the janitor was above him, ftr.

We can possibly narrow it down more. But yeah, that means that scum basically have to claim it and not use it or get nailed in a mass-claim.

[Fate]

Thats the problem. They can only get nailed in mass-claim if we do it TODAY.

Otherwise they can claim vanilla to something else above them, or their scumpartners role, or WHATEVER, and slide by.

You assume that scum would real-claim Janitor, for some reason.

[Hoopla]

Even is massclaim gets another vote, I'm still not participating in it.

[Fate]

Awww Hoopla trying to draw the lynch instead of MCing by being obstinate....Such a cute townie.

The next person that refuses after it gets hammered gets lynched though. The townie abstinator slot has been filled (plus we all know what Hoopla is a vanilla to anyway).

[SerialClergyman]

Zzzz massclaim.

I'd point out that if scum wanted to fake claim, any scum below Parama can claim vanilla for janitor. They can also claim vanilla for any one of the higher scum's choices.

However I still see little reason for that. I doubt their abilities are going to be that important.

[Fate]

If they claim vanilla for the scum role ahead of them AWESOME. Scum's roles will match up.

If the higher up scums claim vanilla to a PR above them, they can easily be tracked/watched and screwed (or not use their power, which is always fun.)

Look:
Scum have to lie about their claims. The earlier they claim the longer they have to keep up the act.
Our weak doctor is hopefully in the mason pair and can be hidden anyway (barring some town vanilla that makes it obvious where it is). EVEN SO a Watcher can watch a Weak doctor and a weak doc can protect a watcher. Guaranteed scum caught/neither being killed.

Do I need too link to Pie's MD threads or something? This MCing thing isn't such a bad way to go.

[SerialClergyman]

So your suggestion, were a massclaim to occur, is that the doc will hopefully be a mason, and will protect the watcher, leaving other roles (cough cop cough) exposed?

In fact, you're going to massclaim then dictate where the doc aims so the scum have their choice of the rest?

But (and again I dispute scum's need to lie) even if their roles matched up - I'm assuming lots of roles will match up. I can count 4-5 vanilla claims already. How will you know whether they are lying scum or genuinetownies who didn't get a role a scum got?

Not to mention that a scum at position 5 could claim the role that a scum at position 12 has, while the scum at position 12 claims vanilla for scum at position 5.

So say 5 is watcher and 12 is even vig.
5 can claim even vig and 12 can claim vanilla for watcher and we'd have no idea that any of them were lying.
So the claim would seem to us to be 5 even vig and 12 vanilla.
Now apply this principle to ALL 5 SCUM and you can see the shitstorm of fakeclaims that are possible even on D1.

Your discussion (and bizarre appeal to MD) does not fill me with confidence that the town is going to achieve anythign by claiming. I don't think you guys are going to break the setup, I don't think a town-directed set of power roles will be better than a personally-directed set.

[Fate]

This town on town banter bores me.

Your last line amuses me though...

You don't think an

informed

majority will make better decisions with PRs than an uninformed lone wolf?

Are you refusing to claim if Massclaim is what is voted upon by the town?