Mini 953: Star Control: Alliance Initiative (Over)

[Papa Zito]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 6

cruelty

- 2 - Dry-fit, Merkabah - (L-4)

Dry-fit

- 2 - Plum, Gammagooey - (L-4)

Players not voting: animorpherv1, bouncy.bouncy, CF Riot, cruelty, Kast, Papa Zito, Porkens

If scum know Gamma is going to your ship, then they can easily try to kill you and get both of you with one shot.

Bring it.

@Corollary to thought to Zito-
Assuming someone did jump ship, you probably don't want to reveal that anytime soon since it makes for an easy scum target.

If someone jumped ships I wasn't involved. I'm just guessing that's what happened.

Ani, I need to know who you shot at. Stop dodging the question.

[CF Riot]

293 and 295 bother me. This looks a little fake. Ani, who is scum?

I like the Dry hate though. His posts from yesterday concerning Rice look like trying to stay off the wagon if possible, but being ready to hop on if needed to push the lynch through.

Vote: Dry-fit

I don't think Cruelty is off the hook, but at the moment his claim checks out. I wouldn't lynch him given just what we know now.

[Kast]

Yeah bouncy, it was 0 energy after I got my passive ability from hammering.

In the previous game we had different forms of roleblocking. Explaining how your abilities work unnecessarily could help scum determine how best to deal with them (especially bad for investigators).

[animorpherv1]

@Zito:

Shot what? I don't have an ability to kill.

I said that because I forgot that Players stay in Space for a while.

@CF:

Zito. I think that becuase I feel he's pulling on straws. And I don't like that he said "Plum is town" without telling why.

[Kast]

Ani, I need to know who you shot at. Stop dodging the question.

Shot what? I don't have an ability to kill.

I said that because I forgot that Players stay in Space for a while.

I'm pretty sure Zito was referring to this:

Well, that was weird. I thought that someone would die. Apparently not, and their ship acts as a shield.

Please do explain the statement more clearly.

[animorpherv1]

That's what I was referring to.

When I saw Gamma in Space, I was wondering why nobody died, and I posted it. Then I eventually rmeembered that you have a Day or So to get picked up by someone.

[Gammagooey]

Hmm. I think I have too many town reads. Just about everyone except 3 people are reading between slight town and obv town to me.

Rereading Merk he's scummier than quite a lot of people but Dry tops him by a long shot. Dry's the way to go today.

[cruelty]

i was under the impression that if your ship is destroyed with you on it, you die.

I agree that cruelty's vote and lurking yesterday was scummy, and targetting Porkens is fairly damning as well. vote: cruelty

animorpherv is in pretty much the same boat as cruelty to me (except the night result info). Actually animorpherv is slightly worse since he literally didn't provide any content yesterday.

mm ok, so i expect the next time you post you'll unvote me and vote for animorph?

i find it slightly ironic that you (you!) are accusing me of lurking but i guess hypocrisy is a null tell. i'm still gonna vote you though, i feel like your vote on me is opportunistic and i'm not a huge fan of your overall contribution. specifically, your last 3 posts yesterday you were jumping all over the third party by rbt comment which whilst interesting, has subsequently been proven to have come from town.

vote: dry-fit

[cruelty]

think that's L-2 btw.

[Kast]

I have a null read on dry-fit. He was lurky in the first game and we lynched him after it slipped that he had an unbelievably overpowered scum ship.

I'd rather not repeat that mistake.

[Gammagooey]

Kast-if he's not scum who is?

[Kast]

@Gamma-
Trying to figure that out.

I don't like the AM/Bouncy exchange, but then AM usually reads scummy to me.

Bouncy's questioning reads as honest inquiry, but I haven't played with him before and it could be fishing.

I had a weak gut scum read on Merk, but his posts re: Cruelty felt really genuine.

I'd probably be most okay with Bouncy atm, but it isn't a strong read.

[Gammagooey]

Iiiiiiiiiiiiiii don't see why Merk looks genuine. Maybe my read on cruelty's ability is biasing me, but to me it looked like scum pushing on a doc claim.

bouncy smells like newbtown to me.

What about the AM/Bouncy thing exactly don't you like?

[Kast]

It sounds a bit fake. AM's initial post is out of place for D2.

[Merkabah]

Wanna lynch Dry-fit?

Why exactly? This is entirely from Gamma's case or because of his lurking or both?

Since he has been launched into space, doesn't he die if noone takes him by Nightfall? And since his ship is a pro-town ship, then wouldn't that make him pro-town to?

Yes, he has to be picked up before night. I'm not entirely sure there wouldn't be some kind of mod wifom with the ships (there was some in the first game iirc), but for the most part it's an alright assumption. Plus gamma's behavior is pro-town, so that's probably a better indicator than ship type.

So Gamma, Porkens, Plum, and cruelty's night actions are all confirmed. Does that mean we can confirm them as town? I'm finding it a little hard to hold this all together and figure it out myself

What's so hard to figure out about it?

I'm really uncertain why people are thinking cruelty looks like town for targeting Porkens. First, I think someone said that they expected him to claim doc or something if he was scum--uh, that's what he did basically. Also, his reasoning for picking porkens sounds like poo poo to me. If I was the doc, I certainly would have picked Papa Zito or Plum last night. The former looks town that potentially has info to confirm another town and the latter is the confrimee. cruelty, did you doubt Plum as being town after PZ said so yesterday?

@gamma-so your main reason for wanting to lynch dry-fit is lack of original scumhunting?

Also,

Rereading Merk he's scummier than quite a lot of people but Dry tops him by a long shot. Dry's the way to go today.

Do tell.

And cruelty slumps onto another popular wagon for specious reasoning. such a strong town read.

Right now I think cruelty, ani or bb should be lynched. CF Riot also continues to linger and do squat.

[Gammagooey]

Merkz-Yeah, I said I expected him to claim doc. And he claimed that AND the energy drain through the action redirector or whatever it was, instead of blaming the energy redirection on another player or a general "the scum"
A better question though: Why does cruelty's targeting Porkens make him suspicious at all now that we know that the energy taken was a mod fluke? I wouldn't have outed the report at all if it wasn't for that and the scum having an energy thief ability last game.

One more question-Do you think he's telling the truth about what his ability does, and if not, what do you think it might be instead?

Main reason for wanting to lynch Dry-fit is that plus his bouncy vote post being more like trying to look pro-town instead of questioning and accusing scum.

[Gammagooey]

Reasoning for my read on you Merk- mostly you just give me bad gut vibes, and I have one reason or another for thinking a lot of other people are town. If I were to make a scumlist it would look something like this:

--------Town
-Mysterious
-People
-go
-here
-and
----------------------Neutral/leaning town
-here
-too
----------------------Neutral/leaning scum
-You
-ani
-nobody
-goes
-here
-at
-all
-----------------------------Dem scums
-Dry-fit

[Kast]

I'm really uncertain why people are thinking cruelty looks like town for targeting Porkens.

The mod error indicates that Cruelty's night action was actually redirection OR something that can stop at least some other actions from reaching the target. It likely isn't intended solely or even primarily for diverting energy (or else he would simply have errata'd that Cruelty's ability precedes the timing in the rules). I'd rather not lynch a claimed doctor of sorts without a strong reason.

[Merkabah]

Why does cruelty's targeting Porkens make him suspicious at all now that we know that the energy taken was a mod fluke? I wouldn't have outed the report at all if it wasn't for that and the scum having an energy thief ability last game.

First, he claimed it after you outted him and as you said, claiming doc protect of some sort is the first obvious choice. Second, he clearly didn't understand the ability properly in the first place and very well could have been trying to block porkens from getting energy last night. He believed he blocked it. After he's been outted by an investigation ability, why not say 'Oh, golly gee, didn't mean to guys. Was trying to doc protect.' I mean, it was obvious someone was going to try to send energy to porkens last night, so why would the energy shield blocking battery juice not be something he looked into last night? I contest that he very well could have intentionally meant to block that energy.

Do you think he's telling the truth about what his ability does, and if not, what do you think it might be instead?

I believe he is telling the truth, just maybe not about his intentions/alignment.

Gamma, can you tell me what separates Dry-fit and ani for you? And putting aside cruelty's night action, what separates he and Dry-fit in terms of gameplay?

I'd rather not lynch a claimed doctor of sorts without a strong reason.

I understand, I just think people are looking at it a bit simply and things don't quite add up so neatly in my mind.

[cruelty]

cruelty, did you doubt Plum as being town after PZ said so yesterday?

put it this way.

i suspected (as i stated earlier) that -if- zito, gamma and porkens were town, then scum would target one of them. i wasn't sure who they'd go after, so i just picked one of the three more or less at random, the rationale being that if i had no particular, imperative reason for choosing someone, scum couldn't secondguess me (eg: zito is obv protect target, so we'll kill gamma instead). by essentially guessing where scum would shoot, i figured that it took wifom away from the scum (eg: he'll think about protecting zito, so we'll kill gamma, but he might realise that, so we'll kill porkens instead).

plum wasn't a consideration because that would require two assumptions, first that zito is town, and second that he's right. two assumptions is a leap to far, so i'm not putting much stock in that statement at this point. i'd prefer to judge plum on her own merits, and i haven't had any epiphanies as to her alignment thus far, so i'm more or less null on her.



as for the dry-fit wagon, well, have you actually read him in iso? i think it's stretching to say that i'm jumping onto a popular wagon when there's a legitimate case to be made against him (lurking + imo opportunism).

would you say that it's scummy to be on a wagon in general, or just when i do it? the reason i ask is that cf riot voted for rbt with little/no explanation, and he's also on the dry-fit wagon (his votes are in his iso 9 and 16, feel free to do some research). plum is also in the same boat (her iso 13 and 19). so uh... sup man?


also, looking at you, you had little suspicion of me prior to early day 2 (you really only addressed me when i was talking about wanting to know stuff as town), and then you jumped on my wagon pretty quickly (no beef about that btw).. but then your read on me is suddenly, and without any real reason other than my presence on different wagons, (sarcastically) strong town. that is, scum. i'm constantly drawing heat for my playstyle, consensus seems to be that i'm a fairly easy lynch, so i'm always a little wary when someone turns around and suddenly has a scumread on me seemingly out of nowhere.

[Plum]

I contest that Merk's last post made me feel less confident in him than I was previously.

Dry-fit has been unproductive, wishy-washy on the whole RBT thing yesterday, his Cruelty vote was not so super-impressive as to erase this feeling from me. Scummiest-looking guy here, I think. I ought to look up CF Riot in iso, too, but that's most of my major suspicions right there - oh yeah, not especially fond of CF, either.

[Gammagooey]

Merk, my read on cruelty is largely because of his night action, because it doesn't make sense for scum to have and use on Porkens. If it was a scum action originally meant to steal/block energy, I'm fairly confident SpyreX would have kept it that way, and he would be lynched already. If its original purpose is a scum doc/investigation immune ability, then unless I'm absolutely completely off about Porkens and he's scum then it would be used on a scum in case of vig/ship 'splosion abilities.


I have said why I find Dry scummier than everyone else multiple times, and pointed out the individual posts. My gut scum read is strongest on Dry-fit. If you think that cruelty or ani is a better lynch than Dry make a case yourself saying why.

[Dry-fit]

I agree that cruelty's vote and lurking yesterday was scummy, and targetting Porkens is fairly damning as well. vote: cruelty

animorpherv is in pretty much the same boat as cruelty to me (except the night result info). Actually animorpherv is slightly worse since he literally didn't provide any content yesterday.

mm ok, so i expect the next time you post you'll unvote me and vote for animorph?

Why would you expect that?

specifically, your last 3 posts yesterday you were jumping all over the third party by rbt comment which whilst interesting, has subsequently been proven to have come from town.

What's scummy about this?

Merk, my read on cruelty is largely because of his night action, because it doesn't make sense for scum to have and use on Porkens. If it was a scum action originally meant to steal/block energy, I'm fairly confident SpyreX would have kept it that way, and he would be lynched already.

I don't agree. Cruelty didn't seem to realize that battery manipulation effects would happen before his action. What about that ability have been specifically be intended to block energy if it is a scum ability?

[cruelty]

I agree that cruelty's vote and lurking yesterday was scummy, and targetting Porkens is fairly damning as well. vote: cruelty

animorpherv is in pretty much the same boat as cruelty to me (except the night result info). Actually animorpherv is slightly worse since he literally didn't provide any content yesterday.

mm ok, so i expect the next time you post you'll unvote me and vote for animorph?

Why would you expect that?

you specifically stated you find ani more scummy than i, therefore if you ignore the night action thing, you should be voting that way. of course, you're interestingly aligning yourself with merbakah. the connection is noted. grin.

I don't agree. Cruelty didn't seem to realize that battery manipulation effects would happen before his action. What about that ability have been specifically be intended to block energy if it is a scum ability?

mhmm.

seems a bit of a stretch that the entire scumteam would miss the fact that battery manipulation comes first (i guess there's the possibility that i'm some sort of crazed lone wolf but it doesn't make much sense for a third party to have an energy drain ability), and that i'd use an ability that obviously isn't specifically designed to drain energy (ie: it doesn't say it is in the action description + it's mod confirmed as not having that effect) for that purpose.

you're assuming an exceptional amount of stupidity from multiple people. i'll concede my error, but everyone here seems smart enough that at least one of three would pick up on the mistake.

[Papa Zito]

I think that becuase I feel he's pulling on straws.

What straws?

And I don't like that he said "Plum is town" without telling why.

What is Zitoscum's motivation for doing so?

When I saw Gamma in Space, I was wondering why nobody died, and I posted it. Then I eventually rmeembered that you have a Day or So to get picked up by someone.

What does this have to do with someone's ship acting like a shield?