Mini 953: Star Control: Alliance Initiative (Over)

[bouncy.bouncy]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 6

cruelty

- 2 - Dry-fit, Merkabah - (L-4)

Dry-fit

- 4 - Plum, Gammagooey, CF Riot, cruelty - (L-2)

Players not voting: animorpherv1, bouncy.bouncy, Kast, Papa Zito, Porkens

So Gamma, Porkens, Plum, and cruelty's night actions are all confirmed. Does that mean we can confirm them as town? I'm finding it a little hard to hold this all together and figure it out myself

What's so hard to figure out about it?

There are 4 people with different intertwined actions.

Call me lazy, if you must. Kast's post helped, though. I later went through the facts on my own and I realized how little information it actually gives about alignment. Plum is confirmed in my mind but for now I can only give the benefit of the doubt to the other three.

[animorpherv1]

I think that becuase I feel he's pulling on straws.

What straws?

IMO, you were looking at something not very important.

And I don't like that he said "Plum is town" without telling why.

What is Zitoscum's motivation for doing so?

Trying to lear a Scumbuddy

When I saw Gamma in Space, I was wondering why nobody died, and I posted it. Then I eventually rmeembered that you have a Day or So to get picked up by someone.

What does this have to do with someone's ship acting like a shield?

*headdesk* The ship dies, then eventuslly the person. It acts like a barrier.

[Kast]

@AM-
-It sounds like you are saying Gamma is in space as a result of a night kill attempt. You think someone (mafia?) tried to kill Gamma and instead of dying, Gamma's ship was destroyed. Is this correct?
--Right now everyone who is on a ship is behind a "barrier" that protects them from dying in space. This is not the same as a "barrier" protecting them from kill attempts.

[Gammagooey]

ani, go read the first Star Control game, or at least read over the old role PMs. In that one most town "vigs" kiled just the ship, but every mafia member had an ability to kill at least one player and their ship at the same time, with Kmd's Ur-Quan awesomeboat able to kill a ship and every player inside of it.

[animorpherv1]

@AM-
-It sounds like you are saying Gamma is in space as a result of a night kill attempt. You think someone (mafia?) tried to kill Gamma and instead of dying, Gamma's ship was destroyed. Is this correct?
--Right now everyone who is on a ship is behind a "barrier" that protects them from dying in space. This is not the same as a "barrier" protecting them from kill attempts.

That's what I thought, yes.

[Kast]

@AM-
-What makes you think that it is the result of a night kill?

-What do you think about Gamma?

[animorpherv1]

@AM-
-What makes you think that it is the result of a night kill?

I take a look at the scenario, and see the ship blowing up, and the people in it "ejecting".

-What do you think about Gamma?

I think Gamma is town. Helping, and the pro-town ship gives Gamma town-points

[Porkens]

Wait, so the scum DID try to kill me? And cruelty saved me?

That's awesome.

I need more power, if anyone can spare it.

[Gammagooey]

Porkens-maybe, maybe not. I think it's either that or they wanted to save energy for a bigger blast later so they used a ship kill on me instead.

If you get the same ability from hammering that I did, then you probably aren't gonna need any more energy.

[Kast]

Wait, so the scum DID try to kill me? And cruelty saved me?

Possible. There are tons of other possibilities though.

@Dry-fit-

you specifically stated you find ani more scummy than i, therefore if you ignore the night action thing, you should be voting that way.

-This is true.
--Are you ignoring the night action thing? If not, what do you think about Cruelty's night action.
--Do you currently find AM or Cruelty more scummy?

@Gamma/Porkens-
I don't find it plausible that the mod would put in two identical town investigation+ roles.

[Gammagooey]

Kast- Why not? I wouldn't be surprised if SpyreX gave scum a fakeclaim that was very close to a townie's role PM, but to me Porkens looks like a player playing to the same abilities, ship, and win condition that I got.

He might have different ship abilities than I did, but I'm fairly certain we have the same hammer ability, and we might get the same abilities from the hammer ability.

[Kast]

Mini theme with a duplicate "cop+extra abilities" role doesn't work so well for game balance.

It also seems kinda lame and unlikely that Spyrex would put in an exact copy of any role.

It isn't impossible, but I would be extremely surprised if that were the case.

[Gammagooey]

Where are you getting cop from?

[Kast]

cop = shorthand for investigation role

[bouncy.bouncy]

Wait, so the scum DID try to kill me? And cruelty saved me?

Where did this come from? Is yours the other ship that was destroyed? And yeah, I read the responses to this but I still don't get it.

I understand that cruelty protected you, but what made you suddenly think that he blocked an attack?

[Porkens]

As stupid as it sounds, it JUST dawned on me that there wasn't a kill last night.

Me and Gamma had the same ship, but I'm *thinking* our pilot abilities are different. No need to compare all out in the open for now, though. I'll take the hammer today, and we'll sort it out tomorrow.

[Kast]

Me and Gamma had the same ship, but I'm *thinking* our pilot abilities are different. No need to compare all out in the open for now, though.

This is what I'd expect as well.

[Gammagooey]

Huh, kay.
Pretty sure Porkens is still town though.

I know it's only L-2, but I wouldn't mind having Dry claim now unless someone else has a case on another player that's better than "But hey this guy is scummy too"

[cruelty]

Wait, so the scum DID try to kill me? And cruelty saved me?

Where did this come from?

Is yours the other ship that was destroyed?

And yeah, I read the responses to this but I still don't get it.

I understand that cruelty protected you, but what made you suddenly think that he blocked an attack?

thus marking the second time you've requested information that you (as town) don't really need, and tried to mask it with general ignorance.

[Papa Zito]

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait

wait

wait

wait

Probably useless game setup speculation: We have race-pairs, but sometimes one of the pair is scum. OR, the fakeclaims are set up this way.

IMO, you were looking at something not very important.

What's that?

Trying to lear a Scumbuddy

lol?

Let's explore this little scenario for a second. Assume I am scumbuddies with Plum. I came right out of the gate and declare that Plum is town in-thread.

1. Has Plum been cleared by this statement? Look at the reactions to my post ITT
2. Plum gets lynched and flips scum. I am irrevocably tied to her by my statement. I'm getting lynched next y/n?
3. I get lynched and flip scum. I am irrevocably tied to Plum by my statement. She's getting lynched next y/n?

Gonna do some re-reading here.

[Papa Zito]

bouncy.bouncy, scumlist plz.

[Kast]

Probably useless game setup speculation: We have race-pairs, but sometimes one of the pair is scum. OR, the fakeclaims are set up this way.

This is one of those statements that can be very dangerous for town without a disclaimer. If anyone feels they need to comment on this, please be careful not to reveal more information than necessary.

@All-
Today's probably my last full day, I'll be around a little bit tomorrow morning, then out of contact for 10 days.

I'd appreciate if you guys wait on lynching anyone until Sunday. That would give a 48hour night and D3 will end on Tuesday May 4th. If I am still alive, I should be able to at least catch up on May 3rd with an extra day if I need to ask any questions.

Thanks.

[Merkabah]

plum wasn't a consideration because that would require two assumptions, first that zito is town, and second that he's right. two assumptions is a leap to far, so i'm not putting much stock in that statement at this point. i'd prefer to judge plum on her own merits, and i haven't had any epiphanies as to her alignment thus far, so i'm more or less null on her.

I don't think you have to make the assumption that zito is town in that situation at all. He very well could have been scum trying to buddy with her. In either consideration, she's town.

as for the dry-fit wagon, well, have you actually read him in iso? i think it's stretching to say that i'm jumping onto a popular wagon when there's a legitimate case to be made against him (lurking + imo opportunism).

Yes, I've read him in iso and while I don't think his play is all that impressive, I'm having a hard time seeing a lot of scum motivation in his actions. You on the other hand have come onto both rbt and dry-fit with weak explanations.

would you say that it's scummy to be on a wagon in general, or just when i do it? the reason i ask is that cf riot voted for rbt with little/no explanation, and he's also on the dry-fit wagon (his votes are in his iso 9 and 16, feel free to do some research). plum is also in the same boat (her iso 13 and 19). so uh... sup man?

Well I was on CF's case yesterday and still have him on my scum list. I've already explained I have a town read on her, so I don't care about her vote. So, sup man, do your research. But it's cool, you trying divert attention elsewhere makes me happy.

also, looking at you, you had little suspicion of me prior to early day 2 (you really only addressed me when i was talking about wanting to know stuff as town), and then you jumped on my wagon pretty quickly (no beef about that btw).. but then your read on me is suddenly, and without any real reason other than my presence on different wagons, (sarcastically) strong town. that is, scum.

I don't buy your night action. I believe you were trying to block energy being sent to Porkens and didn't understand your role couldn't do that. I don't see what that has to do with my day 1 reads at all.

Merk, my read on cruelty is largely because of his night action, because it doesn't make sense for scum to have and use on Porkens.

It does if he didn't understand the action, which has been proven in thread.

If you think that cruelty or ani is a better lynch than Dry make a case yourself saying why.

Well, I think I've explained why I don't like cruelty, but maybe the above with make it a bit more clear. I'll organize our thoughts on ani in a separate post.

It also seems kinda lame and unlikely that Spyrex would put in an exact copy of any role.

It isn't impossible, but I would be extremely surprised if that were the case.

What do you think about "similar" roles being in the game? This is something I've been trying to think about lately given gamma and porkens' apparent connection.

Let's explore this little scenario for a second. Assume I am scumbuddies with Plum. I came right out of the gate and declare that Plum is town in-thread.

1. Has Plum been cleared by this statement? Look at the reactions to my post ITT
2. Plum gets lynched and flips scum. I am irrevocably tied to her by my statement. I'm getting lynched next y/n?
3. I get lynched and flip scum. I am irrevocably tied to Plum by my statement. She's getting lynched next y/n?

In fairness it gave Plum a lot of town cred in my book. She's not cleared by any means, but I certainly have no interest in considering her scum unless it were a situation much closer to lylo. Same for you really.

@All-
Today's probably my last full day, I'll be around a little bit tomorrow morning, then out of contact for 10 days.

I'd appreciate if you guys wait on lynching anyone until Sunday. That would give a 48hour night and D3 will end on Tuesday May 4th. If I am still alive, I should be able to at least catch up on May 3rd with an extra day if I need to ask any questions.

That's kind of a long time to not have you in the thread at all.

[Gammagooey]

Eh. I don't want to lynch cruelty today.

I'm probably going into durrmodwifom here, but in the last game the explanations for the abilities SpyreX gave out were pretty clear and concise. I would expect it to read something like target another player, any actions targeting this player will be absorbed.

I have a really hard time thinking the first thing that would pop into a scum's head would be "Hey, let's block some guy from getting energy" instead of "Hey, let's make one guy on our team completely kill and investigation immune for the night".

Plus nobody actually died last night, and he's pretty much claiming doc. There are a whole lot of possibilities, but if he is town I would just be punching myself in the face over and over again for lynching him before he's had any chance to get night-killed for having a decent ability.

[Gammagooey]

So, some people wait until a lynch is finished before doing some vote/wagon analysis.

Those people are boring.

Here's what I think-
Either Dry is in fact scum, which explains why this wagon is a)so zetta slow and b)why there are so many non-voters
or that BOTH cruelty and CF are scum.

Here's why: if Dry isn't scum, scum have had more than 48 hours to put on one more vote to get Dry to claim and get Porkens ready to hammer. The reason why they WOULDN'T do this is if two of the scum are already on it, and they don't want to put everything at risk by all being on one bandwagon. Zito+gut means Plum is prob town, and I'm town, which only leaves two players left that the two scum would be. However, this doesn't explain why there are so many non-voters. In addition, I would think the last scum would try to get an alternate bandwagon going so if CF and cruelty get caught they'll look better later.

On the other hand, if Dry IS scum, everything makes perfect sense- scum are stalling the bandwagon because they don't want their partner lynched, and are hiding among the town non-voters to avoid putting themselves out there as against his lynch should one more townie come join this awesome wagon and give Porkens the hammer on dat scum ass.

Now, if you'd like to wait until Sunday to actually vote to make sure Kast actually gets back and has a chance to do something, I'm all for it. However, you should state your intention to vote him now so we can have a chance to evaluate his claim before Sunday.

One final note- I'll probably be gone for most of tommorrow night and Saturday (little sister's birthday), but I'll be back at the latest a few hours before deadline on Sunday.