Karma Mafia (Game Over!)

[dybeck]

OK let's see where this one goes.

unvote, vote: Sando

[Albert B. Rampage]

I can already hear the jokes about me driving another bandwagon after yesterday's mislynch. In my defense, Pom hammered without reading the thread. And by the time she was outed, even if she was town her information would be less valuable because it would be subject to scum manipulation. Do I wish we never lynched Pom? Hard to say. I certainly wish she never hammered without reading the thread.

[Jahudo]

ABR put BV to L-3 at one point, though his read on Pom made him switch votes about 12 days before the end of the day. At that point BV and Richard were still tied, and ABR wasn't trying to help the Richard wagon by either thinking Richard was really scummy, or the BV wagon was bad. So either he is scum giving up distancing earlier than makes sense, or he really thought Pom was scum. Given day 2, I believe he just thought Pom was scum, and he's not scum with BV.

[dybeck]

I can already hear the jokes about me driving another bandwagon after yesterday's mislynch. In my defense, Pom hammered without reading the thread. And by the time she was outed, even if she was town her information would be less valuable because it would be subject to scum manipulation. Do I wish we never lynched Pom? Hard to say. I certainly wish she never hammered without reading the thread.

Someone has to drive the wagons. But just don't give us another "display" like yesterday in which you successfully stifled any useful discussion and, in general, acted like a total jerk.

Whether it was scummy or just stupid remains to be seen, but it was certainly counter-productive and left town in a much worse position at the end of the day than at the beginning.

And let's not blame Pom for the obvious shortcomings in your play yesterday.

[dybeck]

ABR put BV to L-3 at one point, though his read on Pom made him switch votes about 12 days before the end of the day. At that point BV and Richard were still tied, and ABR wasn't trying to help the Richard wagon by either thinking Richard was really scummy, or the BV wagon was bad. So either he is scum giving up distancing earlier than makes sense, or he really thought Pom was scum. Given day 2, I believe he just thought Pom was scum, and he's not scum with BV.

Jahudo, I believe you were OFF the bv lynch wagon and ON the Pom lynch wagon. How would you rate your play so far?

[Jahudo]

I think I'm starting to get a better handle on the game.
Though maybe I should vote my town reads just in case my scumdar is on backwards.

[Albert B. Rampage]

don't give us another "display" like yesterday in which you successfully stifled any useful discussion and, in general, acted like a total jerk.

When a game gets boring, town loses interest and scum win. That is fact. Dragging the day when a lynch is going to happen for sure is always bad. I also think there was a wealth of information collected yesterday.

[Patrick]

Votecount

Faraday (1) -- RichardGHP
NickF227 (1) -- Seraphim
Albert B. Rampage (2) -- NickF227, curiouskarmadog
Sando (4) -- Albert B. Rampage, Amished, Jahudo, dybeck
Ojanen (1) -- farside22

Not voting: Ojanen, Javert, Sando, Faraday, boberz, Espeonage
15 alive, 8 to lynch.

Deadline: 16th of May

[dybeck]

don't give us another "display" like yesterday in which you successfully stifled any useful discussion and, in general, acted like a total jerk.

When a game gets boring, town loses interest and scum win. That is fact. Dragging the day when a lynch is going to happen for sure is always bad. I also think there was a wealth of information collected yesterday.

Personally, I lose interest when I'm surrounded by idiots... and rounding on anyone who tried to say anything other than "vote: Pom" was Not Helpful. If info was collected yesterday, it was

despite

you, rather than because of you.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Well let's not get too worked up for who gets credit for what now.

[RichardGHP]

Sigh

Unvote; Vote: Sando

IoA and wishy-washy voting seal the deal.

[NickF227]

I am going to reread him but I think, based on my impressions yesterday, Nick is scum.

Vote: Nick

Can I just tell you, one thing?

Wouldn't I have hammered or at least voted for Pom if I was scum? And thne just say 'Oops she was so scummy and everyone else was doing it?'

Nope, I didn't vote for her cuz I didn't think she was that scummy.

And I was right.

That's so scummy <3

[Albert B. Rampage]

Pom acted scummy. You're just spouting WIFOM Nick.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm sorry, Pom.

[Jahudo]

Nope, I didn't vote for her cuz I didn't think she was that scummy.

Even though you thought she was lying about her role?

[curiouskarmadog]

ABR, you get points for making me laugh, but you are still scum..

[dybeck]

FOS: Nick

A player new to the site NOT subscribing to the Lynch All Liars rule, I can forgive.

But "Look at me, I was right not to be on the mislynch wagon yesterday" tingles my Spidey-sense. Only scum have information about scum. To have not jumped on the wagon yesterday, while doing little to actually stop it, is not really a town-tell.

[Seraphim]

Alright. A couple of things I've noticed about Nick's play:

1. An obsession with ABR

And, in my opinion and my experience, player's like ABR aren't scum, they're just annoying. They'll probably be killed by a vig first night just so they don't accidentally pick off a useful townie because of a false read. Still, he shouldn't really be listened to because he's just screwing with people for fun.

First, he tries to discredit him and tell people to ignore him based on nothing besides being "annoying".

I think both Richard and Albert are scummy. Albert is just dicking around, making inane posts, either he's scum or just doing it to be a douchebag.

This is pretty...outta left field? I mean, there's Pom's weird claim and then there's...THIS. Just, wtf.

Vote: ABR

Really, people? I think last day's spectacle is enough reasoning

2. A bizarre attack

Saying that farside looks town in one post and then voting for her in the next post is pretty....well, do I really need to explain this? Its self-explanatory.

No, it's not. It's not even based in reality as, mentioned earlier, it never happened.

3. Bizarre and unhelpful play

Any comment on my post, Nick?

tl;dr

Um...lolwut

4. A WIFOM defense...several times

I did give bv's vote the lead and all, and he did turn out to be mafia...soo..... Yeah.....If I was mafia, wouldn't I have waited until people actually jumped off the Richard bandwagon and bv was close to being lynched?

Wouldn't I have hammered or at least voted for Pom if I was scum? And thne just say 'Oops she was so scummy and everyone else was doing it?'

5. a strange roleclaim out of nowhere

I know I'm a villager

6. Setting up ABR's lynch while supporting a Pom lynch

I definitely think here claim is fake, since when do hider's die when they hide? And the weak and strong are basically the exact same thing. I'm not sure if she is actually scum though, she could be a cop who doesn't want to reveal their actual role, since to me she doesn't act too scummy compared to other people.

Alright, this is incredibly wishy-washiness while still looking like he agrees with the town. So, the claim is definitely fake. But she's still town. So go ahead and lynch her, but I'm definitely not on the wagon so don't attack me if she comes up town kthxbai

IMO, ABR is scum if Pom turns up town. He's all tunnel vision about lynching her, and he seems more scummy to me than Pom does.

Nice setup for tomorrow's lynch.

So, what I'm saying is this: Nick's play reeks, especially his opinion on Pom's claim. I can understand not suscribing to LAL but Nick is unable to put out good reasoning for why Pom would lie as town. Wouldn't a claim like cop or something keep her alive longer, rather than a common scum claim like hider? I think that Nick was trying to escape being on the wagon while still agreeing with the majority of the town.

[Seraphim]

That being said, I can see the Sando case but I think Nick is much more scum.

[dybeck]

Alright. A couple of things I've noticed about Nick's play:

1. An obsession with ABR

And, in my opinion and my experience, player's like ABR aren't scum, they're just annoying. They'll probably be killed by a vig first night just so they don't accidentally pick off a useful townie because of a false read. Still, he shouldn't really be listened to because he's just screwing with people for fun.

First, he tries to discredit him and tell people to ignore him based on nothing besides being "annoying".

I think both Richard and Albert are scummy. Albert is just dicking around, making inane posts, either he's scum or just doing it to be a douchebag.

This is pretty...outta left field? I mean, there's Pom's weird claim and then there's...THIS. Just, wtf.

Vote: ABR

Really, people? I think last day's spectacle is enough reasoning

2. A bizarre attack

Saying that farside looks town in one post and then voting for her in the next post is pretty....well, do I really need to explain this? Its self-explanatory.

No, it's not. It's not even based in reality as, mentioned earlier, it never happened.

3. Bizarre and unhelpful play

Any comment on my post, Nick?

tl;dr

Um...lolwut

4. A WIFOM defense...several times

I did give bv's vote the lead and all, and he did turn out to be mafia...soo..... Yeah.....If I was mafia, wouldn't I have waited until people actually jumped off the Richard bandwagon and bv was close to being lynched?

Wouldn't I have hammered or at least voted for Pom if I was scum? And thne just say 'Oops she was so scummy and everyone else was doing it?'

5. a strange roleclaim out of nowhere

I know I'm a villager

6. Setting up ABR's lynch while supporting a Pom lynch

I definitely think here claim is fake, since when do hider's die when they hide? And the weak and strong are basically the exact same thing. I'm not sure if she is actually scum though, she could be a cop who doesn't want to reveal their actual role, since to me she doesn't act too scummy compared to other people.

Alright, this is incredibly wishy-washiness while still looking like he agrees with the town. So, the claim is definitely fake. But she's still town. So go ahead and lynch her, but I'm definitely not on the wagon so don't attack me if she comes up town kthxbai

IMO, ABR is scum if Pom turns up town. He's all tunnel vision about lynching her, and he seems more scummy to me than Pom does.

Nice setup for tomorrow's lynch.

So, what I'm saying is this: Nick's play reeks, especially his opinion on Pom's claim. I can understand not suscribing to LAL but Nick is unable to put out good reasoning for why Pom would lie as town. Wouldn't a claim like cop or something keep her alive longer, rather than a common scum claim like hider? I think that Nick was trying to escape being on the wagon while still agreeing with the majority of the town.

Seraphim, can you explain to me which of these are scumtells?

I'm wondering particularly about (3), which is not exactly a conventional scumtell, and (5), which we've established was not a roleclaim, but a confusion in terminology.

[farside22]

I have a gut feeling ABR is blind town. I have to say his case on Sando has meritt but I have not so squish warm feelings on dybeck right about now and Nick who seems to have a tendancy to come of scummy doesn't disappoint me in this game and comes off scummy here to. I may have to reread esp because of what Pom said just as a thought but OJ does not come off town in this game and I would point to my meta on her as another reason to add to my list.
She really strikes me as the type not to buss her scum buddy day 1 (seriously don't ask why I don't know) and as I said she saw bv scummy all day but never voted on him.

[Jahudo]

I don't agree with the Ojanen case, and thought her opinion of the people pushing the BV wagon (Espy in particular) made sense in shaping her opinion on BV as a secondary suspect. Overall I'd say she isn't scum who killed Anon or poro.

OJ does not come off town in this game and I would point to my meta on her as another reason to add to my list.

What's in the meta?

She really strikes me as the type not to buss her scum buddy day 1 (seriously don't ask why I don't know) and as I said she saw bv scummy all day but never voted on him.

I disagree with this. She was the first one on her buddy's wagon day 1 here: newbie 764 and was early on a buddy's day 1 wagon (as a Ojanen/Sando hydra) here: DHSDSM beta link

[Amished]

People to lynch list:
Sando
dybeck
Espy

Sera is close in there for my early suspicions but with everything else lately he's had to drop down more due to other people being more scummy. Nick looks like VI and an easy target (which is why I'm uneasy about Sera attacking him on this page with a weak case)

[farside22]

Hmm I guess I was wrong with my gut thought on OJ.
Here is the game we were in together town
She seems to have more gut feels then I see from her here. She read more like a person who wears her heart on her sleeve type in that game (why I thought she may not buss) here I'm not getting that at all and trust me I typically find OJ very town.

[Seraphim]

None of those are conventional scumtells, but rather a summary of his play. A lot of it reeks, as stated earlier. Point 1, I don't know what to make of his obsession with ABR...yet.

Point 2, this is why a lot of people voted him earlier and I still don't know what to make of it. I'm almost willing to put it down as a newbie mistake if it wasn't coupled with point 3.

Point 3, I don't think it it pro-town in ANY way to simply ignore a case on you, especially when the player in question specifically asked your opinion on it.

Point 4, WIFOM is one thing, WIFOM defenses are scummy and invalid a large percentage of the time. "lulz, guis, if I wuz scum, would I do THIS?" Sometimes, it is valid. This is not one of those occasions.

Point 5, I missed the explainer there. Sorry.

Point 6 is what I find most scummy. He easily sets up for a told-ya-so and follows up on it.

I might be willing to put Nick off as newbtown but I want to hear what Nick has to say on the case.