Open 212--Hard Boiled Mafia (Game Over)

[farside22]

MMM: I read BH as trying to push your buttons and read you as flustered at being pushed. That is why I read the vote on BH as OMGUS.

[semioldguy]

@Confucius
I checked and I was correct. His was the first post after the mod's request to cease such conversation and that post was just continuing along the same lines and not trying to actually participate in this game.

[havingfitz]

havingfitz vote and reasoning for vote on chau is terrible. Most people look to lynch for information. Hammering on someone to get a lynch isn't scummy

If we all had the same opinion the game wouldn’t be fun…now would it? Chau’s vote did give me info. Is hammering scummy if you are scum? Is it scummy if you don’t think the person you’re voting is scum?

I would not vote someone I did not have suspicions on to avoid a no lynch. I did not have suspicions D1 towards Nick

I think this is because you weren't even around for day 1 to state who you were suspicious of.

So I’m not allowed to read D1 and provide an opinion on it?

Havingfits: Do you believe MMM is scum?

Of course…isn’t my vote on him? Do you vote for people you think are scum or town?

havingfits: is the only reason your suspicious of chau do to the hammer?

The hammer and her voting pattern the end of D1.

12 days gives me more of a townie feel than scum

yes because only a town player flakes and disappears
It's null at best

Now I can’t even have a gut feel towards something?

And my scum list consist of semiold, havingfitz, MMM and evil.

Did you ever give a reason for suspecting me? I don’t think so

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ farside22: But my point is that I voted BH because I believed his case on me was bad play for town. Confucius didn't agree, which implied that he thought BH's reasoning was solid. But the burden of proof is on him, and you also, to show that my vote was based on OMGUS. Sadly, he doesn't seem to understand 'burden of proof'.

Now, my first choice of a lynch is havingfitz. Case:

Mindgamer made votes with little reasoning. He voted RayFrost for "drama", and while that was early on and could be forgiven, he later votes Ythan because: "I call sentences like these a strong scumtell. And I'm willing to vote for it." with no explanation as to why the sentence was a scumtell. Oh wait, he did clarify:

Nope, because I believe I have a good reason for my vote.

Clear as mud?

Mindgamer also contradicted himself:

I don't like how the Mysterious Mystery Man wagon is growing so quickly. Already three votes, and Evilsnail outing suspicions towards Mysterious Mystery Man. I'd say there's a good chance on of those last three is scum (Semioldguy's vote was a random vote).

I did? Not at all, sir. Could you point me to the post where you got this impression?

What's the big deal about the MMM wagon? It's remarkable, but not THAT important. There's more interesting stuf to look at

However, I have to say something at this point. I dislike the Mysterious Mystery Man wagon.

Now we have havingfitz...

Votes CC.com on his first real post of the game. Reasoning: because she hammered Nick. Never mind that it was actually past deadline. The interesting thing is:

which garnered an equally suspicious L-1 vote from Ray

This suspicion of RF and/or hitogoroshi does not rise again.

havingfitz adds no new information on CC.com, insisting that the timing of her vote was 'odd'. Eventually, he switches to me. The logic being mainly my vote on evilsnail, which was again made extremely close to deadline.

I did notice evil had strong suspcions towards you most of the day. Is that why you want to lynch him now that his role appears abondoned?

I really don't like this. It sounds scary, but there's no logic for me to do such a thing.

I did not say MMM’s evil vote and evil’s suspicions towards MMM were related. MMM never really gave much of a reason for his evil vote and when he did, vote patterns and bandwagoning...I disputed those being valid reasons.

I can't find where he disputed the reasoning.

Finally, in his latest post, he mentions how farside22 didn't have any reasoning on him, when I was able to look back and see it easily.

Unvote

I'll post my case on evilsnail later on. I'm not sure which one of them is the best lynch any more.

[farside22]

@havingfitz: yes I do have a case but seeing as all you do is roll your eyes at everything I say without saying why for example I should believe that you didn't think Nick was scum. It's really convient to say as you were not here during day 1 and blaming someone else and attacking them for hammering is oh so convient.

[havingfitz]

Now, my first choice of a lynch is havingfitz. Case:

Mindgamer made votes with little reasoning. He voted RayFrost for "drama", and while that was early on and could be forgiven, he later votes Ythan because: "I call sentences like these a strong scumtell. And I'm willing to vote for it." with no explanation as to why the sentence was a scumtell. Oh wait, he did clarify:

Nope, because I believe I have a good reason for my vote.

Clear as mud?

I can’t speak for mindgamer's thoughts or reasoning.

Mindgamer also contradicted himself:

I don't like how the Mysterious Mystery Man wagon is growing so quickly. Already three votes, and Evilsnail outing suspicions towards Mysterious Mystery Man. I'd say there's a good chance on of those last three is scum (Semioldguy's vote was a random vote).

I did? Not at all, sir. Could you point me to the post where you got this impression?

What's the big deal about the MMM wagon? It's remarkable, but not THAT important. There's more interesting stuf to look at

However, I have to say something at this point. I dislike the Mysterious Mystery Man wagon.

How are these contradictions? He says he doesn’t like the way your wagon grew so quickly and confirms that opinion.

Now we have havingfitz...

Votes CC.com on his first real post of the game. Reasoning: because she hammered Nick. Never mind that it was actually past deadline. The interesting thing is:

which garnered an equally suspicious L-1 vote from Ray

This suspicion of RF and/or hitogoroshi does not rise again.

It didn’t matter it was past the deadline…the intention was still there and the vote still counted. As for RF/hito…they haven’t been high enough on my suspect list to focus on. And if they have done nothing else noticeable to me I would not have anything else to say.

havingfitz adds no new information on CC.com, insisting that the timing of her vote was 'odd'. Eventually, he switches to me. The logic being mainly my vote on evilsnail, which was again made extremely close to deadline.

I did notice evil had strong suspcions towards you most of the day. Is that why you want to lynch him now that his role appears abondoned?

I really don't like this. It sounds scary, but there's no logic for me to do such a thing.

If there is no new info for me to add I’m not going to make it up. I do think the timing of her vote was odd…your point? And I said something scary? You’re just making stuff up now…aren’t you?

I did not say MMM’s evil vote and evil’s suspicions towards MMM were related. MMM never really gave much of a reason for his evil vote and when he did, vote patterns and bandwagoning...I disputed those being valid reasons.

I can't find where he disputed the reasoning.

Try here.

Finally, in his latest post, he mentions how farside22 didn't have any reasoning on him, when I was able to look back and see it easily.

Unvote

I'll post my case on evilsnail later on. I'm not sure which one of them is the best lynch any more.

Where do you see farside’s reasoning easily?

And why unvote? If being close to the deadline and there not being any hope for a majority is the only reason you voted him…why take off your vote when we’re even closer to the deadline? Also…the fact you need to post your case on evil shows you did not provide one with your earlier vote on him.

[farside22]

@ farside22: But my point is that I voted BH because I believed his case on me was bad play for town. Confucius didn't agree, which implied that he thought BH's reasoning was solid. But the burden of proof is on him, and you also, to show that my vote was based on OMGUS. Sadly, he doesn't seem to understand 'burden of proof'.

That's is maybe your view but I stated what I saw and felt on my read. Just as you can't prove that you that you felt this way instead of scared scum any more then all we can go on is my impression based on the read.

[havingfitz]

@havingfitz: yes I do have a case but seeing as all you do is roll your eyes at everything I say without saying why for example I should believe that you didn't think Nick was scum. It's really convient to say as you were not here during day 1 and blaming someone else and attacking them for hammering is oh so convient.

The eye rolls were in response to the multiple ones you were giving me.

As for whether I thought Nick was scum or not...it's really not important to my earlier suspicions towards chau. What was important for me was the fact SHE did not appear to be that suspicious of Nick. And I've already stated my opinion re: voting others to prevent a no-lynch without voiced suspicions on them. How are my views towards chau's hammer convenient? WTF are you talking about?

[Jeffcole1]

Vote Count 2.24:

evilsnail (2): farside22, hitogoroshi
semioldguy (2): Confucius, Pittbunny
chauchaudotcom (1): semioldguy
Mysterious Mystery Man (1): havingfitz

Not Voting (3): chauchaudotcom, evilsnail, Mysterious Mystery Man

Prodding chauchaudotcom.
Deadline in 4 days.

[Pittbunny]

Oh dear, we're running out of time.

Am I correct in understanding a three-way vie for lynch targets?

[Confucius]

@Confucius
I checked and I was correct. His was the first post after the mod's request to cease such conversation and that post was just continuing along the same lines and not trying to actually participate in this game.

Incorrect. Ythan's next post was to ask the mod exactly how expansive his ruling was. His posts after that concerning his RayFrost vote were in response to questions directed at him.

I told myself that I would be willing to unvote you if you admitted your reasoning for voting Ythan was invalid, but now I can only:

Confirm Vote: semioldguy

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Case on evilsnail:

Abrupt bandwagoning: early in the game, he clearly states he finds myself suspicious, but vote Ythan, with no reasoning when his bandwagon starts rolling.

Also, he acted strangely with RayFrost.

RayFrost, I voted you because I thought a wagon on you, as one of the players in this game I know to be quite skilled, would be a good place to start

I thought it'd be more useful to create pressure elsewhere.

I unvoted because I am getting a good vibe from RayFrost.

His RayFrost vote was a real stretch... Well, Ythan's vote for you wasn't great.

I nearly missed the fourth quote. evilsnail's vote was made in RVS, and he was already expressing suspicion of me, so I didn't think much of it. But it's clear either he considered his vote to be serious, or he pretended it was serious. But there wasn't a bandwagon on RayFrost, and evilsnail didn't question him. Either this is a case of the same bandwagoning, dropping his current target to go after the popular vote, or it's scum distancing.

And oh yeah, this is weird:

I don't see what's scummy about trying to build a case in RVS.

The whole point of RVS is that nothing is to be taken seriously. Which is bad enough, but then:

Him acting placatingly to me while also saying I'm suspicious is scummy.

I'm starting to get this feeling too.

Your vote on Biohazard is pretty much completely OMGUS

Changing his argument.

I'm not totally convinced, but I'm willing to vote for him if necessary. I see a habit of bandwagoning with weak reasoning, and scummy interactions with RayFrost.

So. We need to come to a head. If there's enough support for havingfitz, I'd prefer that wagon, otherwise I'll vote evilsnail again.

[Jeffcole1]

Vote Count 2.25:

evilsnail (2): farside22, hitogoroshi
semioldguy (2): Confucius, Pittbunny
chauchaudotcom (1): semioldguy
Mysterious Mystery Man (1): havingfitz

Not Voting (3): chauchaudotcom, evilsnail, Mysterious Mystery Man

Deadline in 3 days.

[Confucius]

6. In this game, each Day phase will have a fixed, non-negotiable deadline of 3 weeks (21 days). This deadline may be shortened at my discretion if I feel discussion is lagging.

If a simple majority is not reached by the deadline, No Lynch will occur.

Each Night phase will have a non-negotiable deadline of 3 days. Any Night actions not submitted by the deadline will be forfeit, unless the owner's role PM says otherwise.

We definitely need to pick somebody and lynch them. Towns who No Lynch without a strategic reason for doing so generally lose.

I will lynch players in this order: semioldguy, Mysterious Mystery Man, evilsnail, havingfitz, {hitogoroshi, Pittbunny}, chauchaudotcom, farside22.

I suggest that everybody check the thread every day from this point on.

[Pittbunny]

List:

Semi, Snail, Chau, Farside, Hito, MMM, Confucius. However, I'm willing to instigate a L-2 via swap for the sake of running out of time.

Unvote; Vote Evilsnail

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Unless something dramatic happens, I'll vote evil on Tuesday.

[chauchaudotcom]

Picking up the prod. My apologies but life seems to have caught up to me at the worst of times. Normally I would ask to be replaced but seeing how replacements this game have been detrimental to town I'm going to avoid doing so unless you guys request otherwise. That being said, I will be catching up either tonight if I have time or Tuesday. Sorry for the inconveniences.

[Jeffcole1]

Vote Count 2.26:

evilsnail (3): farside22, hitogoroshi, Pittbunny
chauchaudotcom (1): semioldguy
Mysterious Mystery Man (1): havingfitz
semioldguy (1): Confucius

Not Voting (3): chauchaudotcom, evilsnail, Mysterious Mystery Man

Deadline in 2 days.

[havingfitz]

I can't believe we are unable to get a replacement for evil. The fact that slot has been empty for 3 weeks is ridiculous (no offense to you mod). I also do not think evil's slot should be considered for the lynch due to the fact it is empty. If evil voters have valid reasons...fine, but I can't believe suspicions would be strongest towards someone who has not had any input for 3 weeks when even if evil was scum...that still leaves two more who had to have been more active then evil and provided more reason to be lynched then being awol. An evil lynch just feels like an easy mislynch for scum.

MMM...why does something dramatic need to happen to get you to vote? Is evil your top suspect or not? People who forecast how they intend to vote...instead of just placing a vote...always come across as suspicious to me. Almost like they are looking for approval for their upcoming vote.

Still happy with my MMM vote. Could support a Chau or hito lynch as well....both based on assessment of their D1 voting activities.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

By 'something dramatic', I mean any reversal of general consensus. But with the pace of this game, I doubt that will happen. That's why I'll vote evilsnail, I really don't see anyone else being lynched in time.

So unless everyone else is ready to lynch havingfitz suddenly, I'm out of things to say.

[havingfitz]

By 'something dramatic', I mean any reversal of general consensus. But with the pace of this game, I doubt that will happen. That's why I'll vote evilsnail, I really don't see anyone else being lynched in time.

So unless everyone else is ready to lynch havingfitz suddenly, I'm out of things to say.

So you're good with whoever the consensus is on? Riding the wave...going for the easy lynches vs actually finding scum? How do you expect consensus to change if all you do is throw out impending vote comments? If I'm your top suspect...for whatever reason that may be (you have not responded to any of my points in post 480 btw)...why not vote me? Your lack of commitment is scummy.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Now, my first choice of a lynch is havingfitz. Case:

Mindgamer made votes with little reasoning. He voted RayFrost for "drama", and while that was early on and could be forgiven, he later votes Ythan because: "I call sentences like these a strong scumtell. And I'm willing to vote for it." with no explanation as to why the sentence was a scumtell. Oh wait, he did clarify:

Nope, because I believe I have a good reason for my vote.

Clear as mud?

I can’t speak for mindgamer's thoughts or reasoning.

So I can't use that as part of my case?

Mindgamer also contradicted himself:

I don't like how the Mysterious Mystery Man wagon is growing so quickly. Already three votes, and Evilsnail outing suspicions towards Mysterious Mystery Man. I'd say there's a good chance on of those last three is scum (Semioldguy's vote was a random vote).

I did? Not at all, sir. Could you point me to the post where you got this impression?

What's the big deal about the MMM wagon? It's remarkable, but not THAT important. There's more interesting stuf to look at

However, I have to say something at this point. I dislike the Mysterious Mystery Man wagon.

How are these contradictions? He says he doesn’t like the way your wagon grew so quickly and confirms that opinion.

Read the quotes again. He switches from saying the wagon is scummy to denying he thought that, to saying it's no big deal, to saying he doesn't like it again.

Now we have havingfitz...

Votes CC.com on his first real post of the game. Reasoning: because she hammered Nick. Never mind that it was actually past deadline. The interesting thing is:

which garnered an equally suspicious L-1 vote from Ray

This suspicion of RF and/or hitogoroshi does not rise again.

It didn’t matter it was past the deadline…the intention was still there and the vote still counted. As for RF/hito…they haven’t been high enough on my suspect list to focus on. And if they have done nothing else noticeable to me I would not have anything else to say.

Then what has CC.com done that made her more suspicious than RF?

havingfitz adds no new information on CC.com, insisting that the timing of her vote was 'odd'. Eventually, he switches to me. The logic being mainly my vote on evilsnail, which was again made extremely close to deadline.

I did notice evil had strong suspcions towards you most of the day. Is that why you want to lynch him now that his role appears abondoned?

I really don't like this. It sounds scary, but there's no logic for me to do such a thing.

If there is no new info for me to add I’m not going to make it up. I do think the timing of her vote was odd…your point? And I said something scary? You’re just making stuff up now…aren’t you?

I really don't see your point with that statement. A player says he didn't like me, which is weak evidence since he changed his mind, disappears, and I want to lynch him because of it? Why? evilsnail isn't a threat. Even if he was replaced, there's no guarantee that his replacement would find me scummy. It's a very weak argument.

I did not say MMM’s evil vote and evil’s suspicions towards MMM were related. MMM never really gave much of a reason for his evil vote and when he did, vote patterns and bandwagoning...I disputed those being valid reasons.

I can't find where he disputed the reasoning.

Try here.

I see two accusations, no quotes, no evidence to back up your claims, and a response I made immediately afterward.

Finally, in his latest post, he mentions how farside22 didn't have any reasoning on him, when I was able to look back and see it easily.

Unvote

I'll post my case on evilsnail later on. I'm not sure which one of them is the best lynch any more.

Where do you see farside’s reasoning easily?

Post 471. Her first paragraph deals with you, as well as the second last one. She also asks two questions directed at you.

And why unvote? If being close to the deadline and there not being any hope for a majority is the only reason you voted him…why take off your vote when we’re even closer to the deadline? Also…the fact you need to post your case on evil shows you did not provide one with your earlier vote on him.

Because I was hoping (and still am) to get a bandwagon on you.

I didn't respond to this earlier because I saw no real need to, you're saying nothing new.

[Confucius]

I hate to bring up this consideration, but the fact that we do not have a replacement for a evilsnail is not a reason to not lynch him.

The Mod

may

not be allowed to open the game after night until every player spot is filled, precisely because we might be able to rule people as "not being able to submit X action" simply because of their absence.

I personally do not think evilsnail is the most likely player to be scum, but I

can

say that from what little he has posted, I have not particularly cared for it and I have thought him scummy. I would much rather in theory be able to lynch somebody who can defend themselves and claim their role, but given the nature of this game -- how we are constantly needing replacements and we are handicapped when in such a position -- lynching a scummy player who the Mod has been having trouble finding a replacement for might be our best option, especially so close to deadline.

If it does not look like I can get a lynch on semioldguy by tomorrow, I will switch my vote down my line of "willing to lynch" until I find a player who I think we can get a lynch on.

Mysterious Mystery Man and chauchaudotcom:

Why

are you not voting? We need every vote we can get. If you are not voting and we end up with a No Lynch today, then not voting is simply tacit approval of a No Lynch. And unless you can make an argument that No Lynch is the correct move, then that is scummy. Not voting right now just adds to the hopeless atmosphere of today.

[Pittbunny]

Mysterious Mystery Man and chauchaudotcom:

Why

are you not voting? We need every vote we can get. If you are not voting and we end up with a No Lynch today, then not voting is simply tacit approval of a No Lynch. And unless you can make an argument that No Lynch is the correct move, then that is scummy. Not voting right now just adds to the hopeless atmosphere of today.

Agreed. The fact that you don't even drop a vote on your top suspicions, whether they be on deck or not as a primary lynch target, this late in the game, isn't exactly a helpful one.

[semioldguy]

Unvote; Vote: evilsnail