Pledge of Allegiance (Game Over! Page 76)

[charter]

I specifically remember reading that if a lot of people pick scum or 3rd party in this game, that the town would be made up of good power roles.

And how are you arriving at the conclusion that a lot of people would pick scum? Generally speaking, I think the odds of that happening were almost zilch since most people are wimps when it comes to playing scum.

I said that it's possible, it doesn't matter though, because your point against UK is stretching further than Stretch Armstrong's arms.

Also, how is it all random? Picking your alignment isn't random at all. Building roles based how many of each alignment there are isn't random either.

The role you get is random, I know since I asked Spyrex to be a paranoid day cop no less than three times. I didn't get it.

I'm quite amused at the people who are voting me while also implying suspicion of Parama.

Multiple scum groups. Shock. Gasp.

[VP Baltar]

I said that it's possible, it doesn't matter though, because your point against UK is stretching further than Stretch Armstrong's arms.

You're totally right. Next time I make my first post of the game I'll be sure it's a fully annotated thesis so you don't think I'm being lazy.

The role you get is random, I know since I asked Spyrex to be a paranoid day cop no less than three times. I didn't get it.

Yes, but the probability is still that if you picked town you'd get a vanilla role unless the very unlikely possibility that a huge number of people picked scum.

[DrippingGoofball]

'nuff townie in-fighting

MOAR ZORBLAG VOATS PLZ

He's not his normal self. Outstandingly not his normal self.

[xvart]

This reads like fake indignation. Even the biggest VIs just aren't completely self-unaware and

quote

their mafia qts accidentally. A question is understandable but the FoSses based on this seem off.

So who would openly claim QT on day one? And why hasn't there been any response yet? That is suspicious.

Why did you choose town, xvart?

I chose town because I wouldn't want to get stuck with lyncher/jester role as other and I prefer the problem solving aspect of town as opposed to manipulation aspect of scum.

Yeah it was totally not serious in case you missed it.
Though I would raise the "Other" count to 5 in retrospect.

If you weren't serious then why did you say you had role info to indicate otherwise?

Does that apply near deadline too?

In fact, it does! I just don't feel like being on wagons that are obviously wagons on townies.

It helps to know for sure who all the townies are, doesn't it?

The role you get is random, I know since I asked Spyrex to be a paranoid day cop no less than three times. I didn't get it.

While I agree with your conclusion of roles being random (within each grouping), I don't think your reasoning is valid.

xvart.

[DrippingGoofball]

This reads like fake indignation. Even the biggest VIs just aren't completely self-unaware and

quote

their mafia qts accidentally. A question is understandable but the FoSses based on this seem off.

So who would openly claim QT on day one? And why hasn't there been any response yet? That is suspicious.

It's not suspicious. Seriously. I don't think Ellibereth nor I should respond. Because. Guess what. I like to see who is fishing for masons, for my entertainment.

[LlamaFluff]

Parama's contradiction in like his first three posts is suspect. Not sure if he's town or scum yet.

Parama is town

Also charter is probably town, should know for sure by page 20

[UncertainKitten]

It probably will help to know all of these are me reading from my previous post in this game.

@VP: Mostly in addition to your other scumminess. It's mostly related to the Big Bad meta comment right after another rolefish. Seriously?

I consider your first post little more than random, since it was just that silly.

@LF: Oh, I'm not saying being a VI is scummy, just that he's mixed in a couple scummy acts in his VI play.

@VP:

Contradiction of my own tells? What land are YOU coming from?

@xvart: Ahahahahahaha, nice try. I want them to respond first.

@RedCayote: Of course you realize admitting you prefer scum puts you under higher scrutiny. I'm considering it a null tell, but enough to keep my eye on you.

Where do you get your numbers for "half of them are scum"?

And to be fair, I hate playing the quote stripe game but I'm more interested in finding scum than arguing for pages about how you make my eyes bleed. Though it took me a couple games to realize this ^-^;

@Oja: Oh God Ojanen likes quote stripe bullshit as well ?
That said, I agree with what you said about xvart, but still want Elli and DGB to answer.
How you miss the fact that VP is faking it is beyond me.

@imaginality: That's nice. Why is it town v. town?
I do agree that Jack STILL needs to answer the non-hostile cult question.

@Parama: Ok, and as for the OMGUS you said that everyone on your wagon likes being not town or something to that effect. I can't be arsed to quote you exactly. That's what I was referring to.

And what will you do if I call you a VI again? I merely call them as I see them, and you are so all over the place it's not even funny.

Oddly enough, that raises your liklihood of being town.

@DGB: He's long winded but had a couple of good points in his wall IMO. But, I'll let Troll cover his own defense.

@VP: really? xvart and VP are wagons? I see very few votes on either. So we have Parama and Jack. Are you telling me that none of these are scummy?

@DGB: I'm interested in this

@DGB: Good response.

Yay catch up wall. Hopefully the sparse entertainment helped.

[DrippingGoofball]

@DGB: He's long winded but had a couple of good points in his wall IMO. But, I'll let Troll cover his own defense.

I've seen him as scum and as town. I'm overwhelmed with my sixth sense tingling that he's scum.

Re: YouTube, one of the selections is "hammer" haha.

[UncertainKitten]

@DGB: Yeah, but unfortunately, all the hammer does in SotN is un petrify you. Whereas in mafia you should be...petrified in fear at the hammer :V

Anyway, I'll be honest, you're pretty trustworthy...when you're town. Before I blindly follow you'd I'd both have to see what makes Troll scummy (which may involve ISOing him later), and also determine you to be town.

So, while I want to believe you, currently I'm trusting my own cases more.

[xvart]

@xvart: Ahahahahahaha, nice try. I want them to respond first.

I'm not asking you to clarify your feelings on the situation. I'm asking why you seem to think it is so terrible (as in not scum hunting) yet so interested in the response.

xvart.

[farside22]

Parama is town

Not seeing it.
The counter wagon is interesting.

[UncertainKitten]

@xvart: Not gonna fly. I'll tell you once they respond. It's still pretty terrible but terrible can be justified sometimes.

[LlamaFluff]

Seriously people, xvart wagon. Guy is scum. Look at some of this stuff

I have yet to read a post by VP that I like. I just get a terrible gut feel from every one of his posts, and the logic is shallow, almost like he's not trying.

Why would you lead your case on gut, then follow with shallow logic? Wouldn't you want to lead with your most credible evidence (i.e. shallow posts) and then follow up with the less substantiated personal feelings of his posts?

Tries to call parama scummy for building a case that had sub-optimal ordering of points

DGB from one the QT of ours ->

I have to agree... another SlySly... watch out if he seems townie!

^^^About reading Para.

I think he's town.

Wait... what? Did I miss something? You have a QT? When did town aligned peeps get QTs??

Even ignoring heavy neighbor/mason fishing, this is amazingly ignorant. It first off ignores the fact that an Eli-scum would claim to have a QT, then passes up the simplest solution that it comes from a past game.

A guess based on my role PM.

I don't see a town aligned person getting a role pm that gives an indication of town population makeup.

I think any town aligned player can make a guess at anti-town numbers

This reads like fake indignation. Even the biggest VIs just aren't completely self-unaware and

quote

their mafia qts accidentally. A question is understandable but the FoSses based on this seem off.

So who would openly claim QT on day one? And why hasn't there been any response yet? That is suspicious.

Apparently is still convinced that Eli-DGB are scum yet is not voting them, wants paramarama lynched for some reason. Probably because he is looking like an easy mislynch that is starting to gain "is town" opposition, scary for scum.

Yeah it was totally not serious in case you missed it.
Though I would raise the "Other" count to 5 in retrospect.

If you weren't serious then why did you say you had role info to indicate otherwise?

Guess =/= role information, guess based on wording =/= role information, anything with the word "guess" =/= word information. Thats called speculation.

This guy is grasping at any available straw, and trying to turn anything he can find into a case at this point. We need a wagon going here. His vote seems to be in the wrong place, his reasons for suspicions all seem to ignore simple answers, nothing here reads like town trying to make a case.

[Jack]

Fishy may be scum after all. I'm reading DGB's accusation of Zorblag. It's a tell I've never heard of and I don't see it. Yet I'm feeling no inclination to be suspicious of DGB for it.

##unvote
##Vote:Fishy

[DrippingGoofball]

Yeah.

xvart

IS

scum.

Zorblag & xvart.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm reading DGB's accusation of Zorblag. It's a tell I've never heard of and I don't see it.

There's an unusual amount of sucking up to players it in. Check. Plus coming late in the game... and seeming overly cautious.

I have to finish puttying my new stained glass window, clean up, and tonight or tomorrow I'll delight you with a thorough ripping apart of his scum post. I trust you will see the light.

[UncertainKitten]

Ooh, good llama, you see just about everything

I

see on xvart. But VP is p. bad too.

[xvart]

Tries to call parama scummy for building a case that had sub-optimal ordering of points

I'm not trying to call him scum based on that, at all. I've already called him scum. His post reads like his defense is all gut, with an afterthought to the shallow logic. That is not even close the defining scum characteristic.

Even ignoring heavy neighbor/mason fishing, this is amazingly ignorant. It first off ignores the fact that an Eli-scum would claim to have a QT, then passes up the simplest solution that it comes from a past game.

You don't find it suspicious at all that someone would claim a QT in the first day? Does it come from a past game? I don't know. I find it difficult to believe that a mason would claim a QT and a mason partner in the first five pages for the exact same reason I find it hard to believe that anyone would claim a QT in the first five pages: it negates the whole purpose of having a QT. That is suspicious. They may not be mafia but I highly doubt at this point that they share the town win condition.

Apparently is still convinced that Eli-DGB are scum yet is not voting them, wants paramarama lynched for some reason. Probably because he is looking like an easy mislynch that is starting to gain "is town" opposition, scary for scum.

As much as it appears to me that you are trying to undermine my priorities and voting behavior I believe I have been pretty clear. Parama is scum (hence the vote) and Elli and DGB is suspicious (hence the Finger of

Suspicion

).

Yeah it was totally not serious in case you missed it.
Though I would raise the "Other" count to 5 in retrospect.

If you weren't serious then why did you say you had role info to indicate otherwise?

Guess =/= role information, guess based on wording =/= role information, anything with the word "guess" =/= word information. Thats called speculation.

And speculation in any other game is completely different from speculation in this game, where people got to select what faction they wanted to be on. Anyone who says there are 6 scum in the game and 4 other sided (in a game where people picked their side), then says it is a "guess" based on role PM clearly has at least a little more information than an uninformed minority.

xvart.

[Jack]

Xvart doesn't seem that scummy. He talks funny though.

[Parama]

Add putting words in someone's mouth here to make a case more then it is.

I was waiting for this.
I didn't put words in his mouth; I'm describing exactly what he was saying while making his motives more obvious. It's not misrep if everything I said was true.

what town pm tells you this?

Hey look! Rolefishing!

Yeah it was totally not serious in case you missed it.
Though I would raise the "Other" count to 5 in retrospect.

If you weren't serious then why did you say you had role info to indicate otherwise?

Hey look! Rolefishing!

Does that apply near deadline too?

In fact, it does! I just don't feel like being on wagons that are obviously wagons on townies.

It helps to know for sure who all the townies are, doesn't it?

I can tell townies apart from scum more often than not. I've adamantly opposed lynches that I knew were going to flip town while being town myself.

@Parama: Ok, and as for the OMGUS you said that everyone on your wagon likes being not town or something to that effect. I can't be arsed to quote you exactly. That's what I was referring to.

And what will you do if I call you a VI again? I merely call them as I see them, and you are so all over the place it's not even funny.

Oddly enough, that raises your liklihood of being town.

I haven't even played with half the people on my wagon before <.<
If you can point out where you think I said this I can tell you what you misinterpreted though.

All over the place =/= VI. Am I making logic jumps? Is my reasoning for FoSes and votes bad? As far as I can tell it's as solid as anything that's been posted in this thread considering that VP is most definitely scum.

And I'm not particularly looking for town credit since I'm more interested in finding the scum, thank you.

Done responding, now here's some more awesomeness:

@Elli and Llama, your position that parama is too scummy to be scum?

I think the problem with this post is self-explanatory.

Heehee, I see that your only response is to counter OMGUS me. How...stereotypically scummy.

Yes, I OMGUS'ed you preemptively in my first post.

Also, how did I misrep Parama? Seems to me that several people read his post exactly as I did, so are you claiming that they are misrepping him as well? If so, why am I scummy for it and those persons are not?

OMGUS =/= Vote
OMGUS = overreacting to a vote like you did in your previous post and trying to attack the player who attacked you.

What was the conclusion?

That he was fishing for possible post restrictions?

xvart.

Are you asking him? Can't you be sure in your own reasoning?

Seriously? I thought it was a pretty obvious conclusion so I left the statement open ended with a question mark to be corrected as necessary.

^caught scum^

God I wish I was a dayvig

Or you wish you had any town aligned role right now?

xvart.

Having a daykill doesn't necessarily imply town-aligned y'know.

I'll tell you right now that I'm not going to play the one sentence post game with Jack, Parama, VP, and xvart. I just don't have that kind of devotion. I propose we lynch them all, what do you say?

I either post giant walls or short posts depending on what needs to happen.
Walls = responses, cases, arguments etc.
Short posts = pointing out obvious scum

Post 147 - Shotty is not town aligned. I can't explain it but he's not. I think the first 5 words scream "NOT TOWN! NOT TOWN! NOT-" - needs a 6th word to complete that last scream IMO.

I'm quite amused at the people who are voting me while also implying suspicion of Parama.

Setting up a dichotomy I see.

Even ignoring heavy neighbor/mason fishing, this is amazingly ignorant. It first off ignores the fact that an Eli-scum would claim to have a QT, then passes up the simplest solution that it comes from a past game.

You don't find it suspicious at all that someone would claim a QT in the first day? Does it come from a past game? I don't know. I find it difficult to believe that a mason would claim a QT and a mason partner in the first five pages for the exact same reason I find it hard to believe that anyone would claim a QT in the first five pages: it negates the whole purpose of having a QT. That is suspicious. They may not be mafia but I highly doubt at this point that they share the town win condition.

Read the thread please, I already told you why you're wrong and what they were talking about.

[charter]

Seriously people, xvart wagon. Guy is scum. Look at some of this stuff

Good points, Xvart looks like likely scum. What do you think of Balter? I'm basically waiting on a votecount and I'll switch over to Xvart if he's got more votes.

[charter]

Jack, what do you think of Balter?

[Jack]

Haven't seen anything scummy.

[LlamaFluff]

Tries to call parama scummy for building a case that had sub-optimal ordering of points

I'm not trying to call him scum based on that, at all. I've already called him scum.

His post reads like his defense is all gut, with an afterthought to the shallow logic.

That is not even close the defining scum characteristic.

So then he was scummy for the ordering, sound like if it was the other way around it would have been a null factor.

Even ignoring heavy neighbor/mason fishing, this is amazingly ignorant. It first off ignores the fact that an Eli-scum would claim to have a QT, then passes up the simplest solution that it comes from a past game.

You don't find it suspicious at all that someone would claim a QT in the first day? Does it come from a past game? I don't know. I find it difficult to believe that a mason would claim a QT and a mason partner in the first five pages for the exact same reason I find it hard to believe that anyone would claim a QT in the first five pages: it negates the whole purpose of having a QT. That is suspicious. They may not be mafia but I highly doubt at this point that they share the town win condition.

You are ignoring the simplest answer still. It was a QT from a past game hydra. Are you honestly trying to argue that Eli tried to prove a point by quoting the scum QT in such a way that it could not have been accidental? They arent masons, they arent scum, they ARE both town. Let it go, you are wrong.

Apparently is still convinced that Eli-DGB are scum yet is not voting them, wants paramarama lynched for some reason. Probably because he is looking like an easy mislynch that is starting to gain "is town" opposition, scary for scum.

As much as it appears to me that you are trying to undermine my priorities and voting behavior I believe I have been pretty clear. Parama is scum (hence the vote) and Elli and DGB is suspicious (hence the Finger of

Suspicion

).

So its not a slip then? If you think they slipped, I would belive that you would be voting that over a read. Your choice of suspicions make no sense, apart from just trying to get the easier lynch through.

Yeah it was totally not serious in case you missed it.
Though I would raise the "Other" count to 5 in retrospect.

If you weren't serious then why did you say you had role info to indicate otherwise?

Guess =/= role information, guess based on wording =/= role information, anything with the word "guess" =/= word information. Thats called speculation.

And speculation in any other game is completely different from speculation in this game, where people got to select what faction they wanted to be on. Anyone who says there are 6 scum in the game and 4 other sided (in a game where people picked their side), then says it is a "guess" based on role PM clearly has at least a little more information than an uninformed minority.

Please... read between the lines. I looked at my role and immediately speculated on how many town players there are, and likely how many scum/other exist. How could speculating in this setup possibly be a tell?

@charter - He is stuck a little too hard on Parama lynch for my liking, but its nowhere near enough to vote him.

[Nicodemus]

Re: Parama. Parama is town. His posting, tone, and voting style are all consistent with my experience of TownParama.

xvart looks quite scummy right now. The continued, willful ignorance concerning the QT quote that Elli posted is pretty damning. "I highly doubt they share the town win condition" is probably the worst result to come out of this. His case on Parama is fairly weak as others have pointed out and his posting looks more self-preserving than others as well.

Others hitting my scumdar right now are:

Llama, for his over-the-top defense of Parama, like when he was defending Parama's guesses at anti-town factions. I'm willing to accept that Parama was joking because Parama does stuff like this, but Llama takes it to a whole different level by saying "anyone can make guesses! Guesses aren't scummy! I'm really on Parama's side here!"

UK, more gut than anything, but some of her early interactions with VP seemed off.

@ Llama: What do you think of UK and Zorblag?

@UK: What do you think of xvart and Llama?

##vote: xvart