Open 212--Hard Boiled Mafia (Game Over)

[farside22]

havingfitz: I gave you one eye roll not several eye rolls. And it's easy to say well I thought X was town when you never gave a view in the first place.
Semi: why are you voting for evil?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

Fine with me.

Vote: havingfitz

[semioldguy]

Semi: why are you voting for evil?

Deadline is tomorrow and evilsnail is my second choice.

[havingfitz]

Now, my first choice of a lynch is havingfitz. Case:

Mindgamer made votes with little reasoning. He voted RayFrost for "drama", and while that was early on and could be forgiven, he later votes Ythan because: "I call sentences like these a strong scumtell. And I'm willing to vote for it." with no explanation as to why the sentence was a scumtell. Oh wait, he did clarify:

Nope, because I believe I have a good reason for my vote.

Clear as mud?

I can’t speak for mindgamer's thoughts or reasoning.

So I can't use that as part of my case?

No...if you want to base your suspicions of me on mindgamer's play you can.

Mindgamer also contradicted himself:

I don't like how the Mysterious Mystery Man wagon is growing so quickly. Already three votes, and Evilsnail outing suspicions towards Mysterious Mystery Man. I'd say there's a good chance on of those last three is scum (Semioldguy's vote was a random vote).

I did? Not at all, sir. Could you point me to the post where you got this impression?

What's the big deal about the MMM wagon? It's remarkable, but not THAT important. There's more interesting stuf to look at

However, I have to say something at this point. I dislike the Mysterious Mystery Man wagon.

How are these contradictions? He says he doesn’t like the way your wagon grew so quickly and confirms that opinion.

Read the quotes again. He switches from saying the wagon is scummy to denying he thought that, to saying it's no big deal, to saying he doesn't like it again.

This is a blatant lie on your part (specifically your comments on his second post where you say he denied thinking your wagon was scummy)!

1st quote - He thought your wagon was scummy.
2nd quote - He responded to Deer questioning why he (Mindgamer) stopped thinking there was scum on your (MMM) wagon. That is what Mindgamer is answering with his quote above and which is in no way a contradiction to his position on your wagon.
3rd quote - He says your wagon is remarkable but there are better things to look at….I don’t see a contradiction and he did not call it ‘no big deal” as you put it.
4th quote – we agree…he doesn’t like it

Now we have havingfitz...

Votes CC.com on his first real post of the game. Reasoning: because she hammered Nick. Never mind that it was actually past deadline. The interesting thing is:

which garnered an equally suspicious L-1 vote from Ray

This suspicion of RF and/or hitogoroshi does not rise again.

It didn’t matter it was past the deadline…the intention was still there and the vote still counted. As for RF/hito…they haven’t been high enough on my suspect list to focus on. And if they have done nothing else noticeable to me I would not have anything else to say.

Then what has CC.com done that made her more suspicious than RF?

The reasons I already provided. I do suspect RF/Hito for the same reason but chau’s was more amplified due to it being the hammer w/ no prior suspicions voiced towards Nick. As mentioned in a previous post…my list is you, chau and RF/Hito.

havingfitz adds no new information on CC.com, insisting that the timing of her vote was 'odd'. Eventually, he switches to me. The logic being mainly my vote on evilsnail, which was again made extremely close to deadline.

I did notice evil had strong suspcions towards you most of the day. Is that why you want to lynch him now that his role appears abondoned?

I really don't like this. It sounds scary, but there's no logic for me to do such a thing.

If there is no new info for me to add I’m not going to make it up. I do think the timing of her vote was odd…your point? And I said something scary? You’re just making stuff up now…aren’t you?

I really don't see your point with that statement. A player says he didn't like me, which is weak evidence since he changed his mind, disappears, and I want to lynch him because of it? Why? evilsnail isn't a threat. Even if he was replaced, there's no guarantee that his replacement would find me scummy. It's a very weak argument.

What are you talking about? You are avoiding the questions I am asking above by bringing up my comment re: evil’s suspicions towards you.

I did not say MMM’s evil vote and evil’s suspicions towards MMM were related. MMM never really gave much of a reason for his evil vote and when he did, vote patterns and bandwagoning...I disputed those being valid reasons.

I can't find where he disputed the reasoning.

Try here.

I see two accusations, no quotes, no evidence to back up your claims, and a response I made immediately afterward.

You say you can’t see where I dispute your reasoning. The post I provided is me disputing your reasoning (of vote patterns and bandwagoning). I will now quote the relevant part for your reading comprehension:

“His vote patterns and bandwagoning? He had a random vote on RayFrost and then a vote he maintained on the eventual mislynch...which you joined in on later.”

How are a Random vote and then a vote he maintained the rest of the game conducive to a pattern analysis or exhibit bandwagoning?

Finally, in his latest post, he mentions how farside22 didn't have any reasoning on him, when I was able to look back and see it easily.

Unvote

I'll post my case on evilsnail later on. I'm not sure which one of them is the best lynch any more.

Where do you see farside’s reasoning easily?

Post 471. Her first paragraph deals with you, as well as the second last one. She also asks two questions directed at you.

Her post may “deal with” me but it does not provide and reasoning to suspect me. Unless saying my vote for chau is terrible and disagreeing with my I was leaning towards evil being town due to his absence is the reasoning farside is making that is such a good case on me. WTH? Are you serious?

And why unvote? If being close to the deadline and there not being any hope for a majority is the only reason you voted him…why take off your vote when we’re even closer to the deadline? Also…the fact you need to post your case on evil shows you did not provide one with your earlier vote on him.

Because I was hoping (and still am) to get a bandwagon on you.

I finally feel like you’ve made an honest statement. Good job!

People…please read my response to MMM above. His response to me is misleading and has at least one significant lie in it. MMM was a frontrunner in the D1 voting race and only a late switch by chau and Ray to the mislynch ensured his (MMM’s) survival. Also…one of his main D1 detractors was the NK. MMM is flying way too low under the radar on Day 2. BTW MMM, nice OMGUS vote there

havingfitz: I gave you one eye roll not several eye rolls. And it's easy to say well I thought X was town when you never gave a view in the first place.

Both your eye rolls in that post were directed at me. Is it important to discuss further? And more rubbish from you....am I supposed to reveal everyone I think gives me a town read (which I rarely do BTW) before saying I do not think they are scum?

[Jeffcole1]

Vote Count 2.27:

evilsnail (4): farside22, hitogoroshi, Pittbunny, semioldguy

havingfitz (1): Mysterious Mystery Man
Mysterious Mystery Man (1): havingfitz
semioldguy (1): Confucius

Not Voting (2): chauchaudotcom, evilsnail

Deadline tomorrow. I apologize for the difficulty in obtaining replacements; I should probably refresh my requests in the Replacement and Open Game queues.

[Confucius]

Unvote: semioldguy, Vote: evilsnail

[havingfitz]

That's hammer.

Can't believe with so many potential targets in this game that are actually 'contributing,' we go for the easy deadweight.

If evil does flip town...the game is in LYLO? Yes?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ havingfitz: Regardless of his voting patterns, evilsnail sided with whichever bandwagon was popular at the time. The quotes I selected show different opinions at different times. Also, I would like you to respond as to why you think or thought my vote on evilsnail was because he expressed suspicion of me, rather than changing the subject. And it would be nice if you could explain why my vote was OMGUS, instead of just shouting 'FIRE' and hoping for a quicklynch.

EDIT: Yeah, if he's town, we're in lylo and should massclaim tomorrow. On a side note, I've got to stop leaving my posts up overnight.

[havingfitz]

@ havingfitz: Regardless of his voting patterns, evilsnail sided with whichever bandwagon was popular at the time. The quotes I selected show different opinions at different times. Also, I would like you to respond as to why you think or thought my vote on evilsnail was because he expressed suspicion of me, rather than changing the subject. And it would be nice if you could explain why my vote was OMGUS, instead of just shouting 'FIRE' and hoping for a quicklynch.

EDIT: Yeah, if he's town, we're in lylo and should massclaim tomorrow. On a side note, I've got to stop leaving my posts up overnight.

Regardless of his voting patterns? You gave two reasons for suspecting evil and now your backing off one of them? So much for that case. I’m not going to analyze every comment evil made in his short time here to see if he was supporting bandwagons...but his votes don’t seem to indicate that and voicing suspicions on numerous players is not uncommon. You are doing quite a good job of suspecting everyone yourself.

I assume by the quotes you selected you mean your contradiction case against mindgamer? In my response above (post 503) I show how that case is completely misleading and in regards to the second quote...either an outright lie or a major misinterpretation on your behalf.

I never said I thought your vote on evil was because he expressed suspicion towards you. Look again. It was a stand alone comment after I voted you that had no bearing on my vote.

The OMGUS comment is based on my opinion that you are voting me for no reason other than the fact I am pressuring you. You have placed two votes on me provided no reason with either of them. If it’s not OMGUS...how about providing a reason that is valid?

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

I’m not going to analyze every comment evil made in his short time here to see if he was supporting bandwagons...

Fine, but I have. You admit to only looking at the votes. I've read Mindgamer in ISO, and compared his suspicions with the suspicions of others.

You are doing quite a good job of suspecting everyone yourself.

? Isn't suspecting everyone a good thing?

I never said I thought your vote on evil was because he expressed suspicion towards you.

I did notice evil had strong suspcions towards you most of the day. Is that why you want to lynch him now that his role appears abondoned?

The OMGUS comment is based on my opinion that you are voting me for no reason other than the fact I am pressuring you. You have placed two votes on me provided no reason with either of them. If it’s not OMGUS...how about providing a reason that is valid?

I've been on your case since your vote on CC.com at the start of the day. You only started suspecting me much later on. If anyone is using OMGUS here, it's you.

OK, Mr. ?

[havingfitz]

I’m not going to analyze every comment evil made in his short time here to see if he was supporting bandwagons...

Fine, but I have. You admit to only looking at the votes. I've read Mindgamer in ISO, and compared his suspicions with the suspicions of others.

Without taking his votes into consideration...how are you determining that mindgamer was on multiple bandwagons? Did he hand out FoS’s or just voice suspicions? Your case on him was based on vote patterns (which you have since dismissed) and bandwagoning. How are his suspicions towards others anymore an example of bandwagon that what you are doing...and which YOU state is a GOOD thing in your quote below!

Are you even making an effort in your posts? Unbelievable.

You are doing quite a good job of suspecting everyone yourself.

? Isn't suspecting everyone a good thing?

Like I said above...how is this any different than the bandwagoning you claim mindgamer did?

I never said I thought your vote on evil was because he expressed suspicion towards you.

I did notice evil had strong suspcions towards you most of the day. Is that why you want to lynch him now that his role appears abondoned?

What is the point of the two quotes you show above? I did not mention evil’s suspicions towards you when I voted you. Here is the post where I voted you... MMM VOTE
Back up your insinuation.

The OMGUS comment is based on my opinion that you are voting me for no reason other than the fact I am pressuring you. You have placed two votes on me provided no reason with either of them. If it’s not OMGUS...how about providing a reason that is valid?

I've been on your case since your vote on CC.com at the start of the day.

You only started suspecting me much later on.

If anyone is using OMGUS here, it's you.

OK, Mr. ?

More lies. I am a strong proponent of lynching all liars and this is twice I have caught you in one.

D2 had been going on for a ~week and you had not mentioned me or mindgamer once that I can find. As soon as I express my suspicions towards chau and YOU...you chime in less than an hour later saying you think I am scummy. Your comment above...which I have put in bold...is a blatant lie.

If you are still here tomorrow (which I have no doubt you will be...) you need to be the lynch. And anyone that supports you bears close watching...though I expect with your play you will get some quality bussing.

[Mysterious Mystery Man]

@ havingfitz:

Try reading Mindgamer, and I think you'll see the change of opinion. And, although you said otherwise, I have not 'dismissed' Mindgamer's voting; his vote on Ythan with no explanation is another reason in my case against him/you. In contrast, my vote on Ythan was made at the end of the day, and was accompanied by reasoning. Also, suspecting many people is different from bandwagoning. It's one thing to have your eye on more than one person, but quite another to side with the most popular argument. As for the two quotes, my point was to show how you made a argument you couldn't follow up on: namely saying my vote on evilsnail was because he expressed suspicion of me D1. When I questioned you about that, you denied it. It doesn't matter if it was in the same post when you voted me, it was still said, and it's a baseless accusation. Finally, your remark about how you put suspicion on me first is a lie. That post only shows that you wanted to look closer to my case on Mindgamer, who you replaced. So, even if you do take that as an expression of suspicion and not a declaration of investigation, it was still in response to suspicion I put on your player slot.

[Jeffcole1]

Vote Count 2.28:

evilsnail (5): Confucius, farside22, hitogoroshi, Pittbunny, semioldguy

havingfitz (1): Mysterious Mystery Man
Mysterious Mystery Man (1): havingfitz

Not Voting (2): chauchaudotcom, evilsnail

evilsnail, Townie, Lynched Day 2

It is now Night 2. Actions are due by Friday, May 7, at 8:00 p.m. forum time.

[Jeffcole1]

Pie_is_good replaces hitogoroshi. Anyone who has not submitted a night action has until 8:00 forum time tonight to do so before Day 3 begins.

[Jeffcole1]

Pittbunny, Psychologist, Killed Night 2

semioldguy, Mafia Goon, Killed Night 2

It is now Day 3. With 6 players alive, it takes 4 votes to lynch. Deadline is set for Sunday, May 30, at 8:00 p.m. forum time.

[Confucius]

I am the Tracker / Vig. I chose to be a Vig on Night One, and I killed semioldguy on Night Two.

When there are no counter-claims, I will be confirmed Town. If anybody would like to counterclaim me, please do so in your first post.

We should lynch somebody today, and I will Vig somebody overnight. If either one of those hit scum, we will either win the game or have a Day Four with three players alive, and one last chance to lynch scum.

Mysterious Mystery Man, please explain to me why you are not scum with semioldguy.

I will read through Pittbunny's (and Deer's) play to see if I cannot deduce our Psychologist's Night One result.

[Pie_is_good]

Hey everyone. I've yet to read through the game.

No counterclaims from me. I would like to say that Confucius is the man for choosing vig (although less so for failing to vig night one).

If someone would like to summarize the game for me, that'd be great. I'll still do a read-through, but that might not happen instantly, and in the mean time I'd like to be able to participate in the current conversation.

[Pie_is_good]

Addendum: Confucius is further The Man for implementing massclaim without asking for permission.

[Confucius]

Welcome to Hard Boiled Mafia, <name>. You begin the game as a Vanilla Townie, but on Night 1, you must choose whether to become a Tracker or a Vigilante. As a Tracker, you may spy on one person each night, starting on Night 2; you will be told who, if anyone, that player targeted with a night action.

As a Vigilante, you may choose to kill one player each night, starting on Night 2.

Choose wisely; once you've decided on a role, you're stuck with it for the rest of the game. You win when the Mafia has been eliminated.

Please confirm via return PM.

Unfortunately, I could not use a Vig kill on Night One, or I most certainly would have done so.

Pie_is_good, I would rather you read through the game than be spoonfed a summary. What we think is important may not be what you think is important. I would quite like to see what you think of the game without being influenced by our summaries.

[Pie_is_good]

Oh yeah. I forgot that you weren't a vig yet night one. Man Points restored.

And I appreciate the concern, but I think I'll do just fine forming my own opinions after (god forbid) hearing yours.

[chauchaudotcom]

No counterclaim here.

Based off Deer's post I'm thinking he would have investigated MMM or Mindgamer. And given his switch to snail d2 one of those two is for sure innocent.

Given Pitt's list in ISO 7:
Semi, Snail, Chau, Farside, Hito, MMM, Confucius.

Notice how he left Fitz out. Whether on accident or not, Fitz clearly wasn't on his suspicion list so I'm going to conclude that he's most likely the psyc's investigation. Fitz is going to be off my list for today.

Given that I know my role that leaves me with:

farside22
Mysterious Mystery Man
Pie_is_good

I'm going to have to retract my previous read on MMM as his interactions with semi are the most notable. He starts of d2 with his suspicion on MMM but never really goes for it. Could be a possible attempt at an early bus in case MMM is going down d2 (since he was under heavy suspicion d1).

I'll finish isoing the other two tomorrow morning as it is my bed time now.

[chauchaudotcom]

No counterclaim here.

Based off Deer's post I'm thinking he would have investigated MMM or Mindgamer. And given his switch to snail d2 one of those two is for sure innocent.

Given Pitt's list in ISO 7:
Semi, Snail, Chau, Farside, Hito, MMM, Confucius.

Notice how he left Fitz out. Whether on accident or not, Fitz clearly wasn't on his suspicion list so I'm going to conclude that he's most likely the psyc's investigation. Fitz is going to be off my list for today.

Given that I know my role that leaves me with:

farside22
Mysterious Mystery Man
Pie_is_good

I'm going to have to retract my previous read on MMM as his interactions with semi are the most notable. He starts of d2 with his suspicion on MMM but never really goes for it. Could be a possible attempt at an early bus in case MMM is going down d2 (since he was under heavy suspicion d1).

I'll finish isoing the other two tomorrow morning as it is my bed time now.

[Confucius]

Given Pitt's list in ISO 7:
Semi, Snail, Chau, Farside, Hito, MMM, Confucius.

Notice how he left Fitz out. Whether on accident or not, Fitz clearly wasn't on his suspicion list so I'm going to conclude that he's most likely the psyc's investigation. Fitz is going to be off my list for today.

This was something I considered. This list taken at face value does not tell us much. I do not think I could have been the investigation target for Night One, because if I understand the Psychologist correctly, I should have come up as "potential to kill," which means I really should not have been at the end of that list if I were investigated. Deer's and Pittbunny's behavior also did not suggest a "potential to kill" result on either semioldguy or evilsnail. So most likely, the Psychologist either did not have a useful result (due to not investigating, or investigating either McGriddle or BioHazard), or had a "no potential to kill" result, which is the equivalent of an innocent result.

I am willing to consider HavingFitz as town solely for today and tonight. I am not entirely comfortable with this, though, because if the Psychologist had an innocent result on somebody they should have been more clear about such a result.

If we have a Day Four, I would knock this down to a mere presumption that HavingFitz is town, but not an absolute presumption.

~

Mysterious Mystery Man, I am currently gunning for you. Just about the only that might save you from being lynched today or shot tonight is a counterclaim from you. Pretty much everything about semioldguy's play suggests you are one of his partners.

Best guess for third scum is currently Pie_is_good, but this is without doing a reread.

[havingfitz]

No counter claim.

I am zeroed in on MMM today primarily for the end of D2 discussions between he and I. He was unable to get his story straight and/or was making blatant misrepresentations (aka lies) which I have already pointed out.

While I assess who my ~2 suspect is...

Vote: MMM

[havingfitz]

I didn’t think we were in LYLO...since we are;

Unvote

I’d be hard pressed to change my views towards MMM but I believe calmer heads would be the best approach...for now.

Look forward to the views of others.