Pledge of Allegiance (Game Over! Page 76)

[Zorblag]

Looks like Shotty to the Body got left off my list of fine lynches on inactivity grounds. Toss him in there as I wouldn't want him to feel neglected.

@DrippingGoofball, out of curiosity how much do you think I generally attempt to simulate cheerfulness as scum compared to how much I try as town? From the talking with you I've done in general I'd sort of expect you to think it's the sort of thing I'd do as either alignment.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Ellibereth]

Nico = town. DDD = town. Charter = town. Not sure on troll, Jack, VP. Leaning scum town scum respectively on those.
Xvart is scum.

[farside22]

Llama post 162 leans me believing he is town and I like his case on xvart.
*note to self look at xvart in iso*
Xvart: Why is it scummy for someone to bring up a QT comment?

I was waiting for this.
I didn't put words in his mouth; I'm describing exactly what he was saying while making his motives more obvious. It's not misrep if everything I said was true.

Can I see that liscense that says you are physic?

Hey look! Rolefishing!

Hey look at the front page. Hey look I checked my own PM
IE go blow it out your ass if you dont' have an explanation.

DGB- I'll wait for the Zor case for the answer to this but why do you say he came in late? His first post was less than 12 hours after the game started and there's still people who haven't ever posted yet.

DDD and to a lesser degree DGB again-Why would you leave a cult leader alive a day and let them get a recruit before killing them instead of lynching them before they have a chance to take someone down with them? And what good will PRs be on him except finding other possible members? I don't get your logic here.

I'd still appreciate a link to a townParama game if anyone is willing to share, I keep hearing about it but I'd like to see it for myself.

I like my vote right now, but I can certainly deal with a xvart lynch.

This comes off scummy. Trying to push on the Jack is cult lynch.
Hasn't said anything about finding parma scum but wants town links. Personally if your not sure I would be asking for both
Would switch votes to xvart but doesn't say why.
Post 192 I think Jack is town. Crap
post 206 DGB is so town it hurts.
Gammy is tunneling hard on jack and needs to take a step back and review all going on.
Phate 216 feels scummy. I don't like the single question that add nothing to the game post.
I'm on the fence with Elli
Seriously 2 post from Phate that say next to nothing and a very minor (one line) case against VP. Either bussing or bw vote either way Phate gives me scum vibes

Why would you lead your case on gut, then follow with shallow logic? Wouldn't you want to lead with your most credible evidence (i.e. shallow posts) and then follow up with the less substantiated personal feelings of his posts?

What difference does this make? How is it scummy?
Xvart: Do you really think the mod would allow a player to directly quote from their QT in game?

unvote
##Vote: Phate

[VP Baltar]

After I make dinner, I plan to drink an entire bottle of wine while catching up in this game. Prepare for words children.

[LlamaFluff]

After I make dinner, I plan to drink an entire bottle of wine while catching up in this game. Prepare for words children.

You only need two words (and a ##). Those are "xvart" and "vote"

@farside - Would you prefer a Phate or xvart lynch right now?

[UncertainKitten]

It seems like the xvart wagon is a lot more likely to happen. I'm pretty cool with this actually.

##Unvote
##Vote: xvart

Why do you think Jack is town, farside?

I don't think he's town but I don't think he's scum, so he's a secondary lynch.

[Jack]

fos:LlamaFluff

Pushing a lynch a bit too heedlessly.

[VP Baltar]

You only need two words (and a ##). Those are "xvart" and "vote"

Possibly. I honestly haven't had the time to look closely at your xvart case yet, so that is certainly a top priority. *looks for corkscrew*

[Parama]

I'm staying on VP if anyone cares.

[farside22]

After I make dinner, I plan to drink an entire bottle of wine while catching up in this game. Prepare for words children.

You only need two words (and a ##). Those are "xvart" and "vote"

@farside - Would you prefer a Phate or xvart lynch right now?

I had a few issues with xvart. The biggest issue is him focusing on the QT and trying to make it look scummy. Your case is good and it has xvart talking. I'm going with my gut read of phate based on how little he has said this game (meta) right now.

UK: There are certain things I'm seeing that make me believe Jack is town. I have seen him as scum before and I'm not seeing the same play. He's more lurky as scum. He's whole cult comment reminds me of a play of his in a current game. I just notice he likes to do crazy/stupid things more as town then scum.

[VP Baltar]

I'm staying on VP if anyone cares.

I'm guessing no one does, but for someone who was bitching earlier about Jack wasting posts that's some nice content.

*back to reading and writing*

[imaginality]

He's whole cult comment reminds me of a play of his in a current game.

QF very much T.

[Gammagooey]

Farside- I'm actually not as interested in Parama right now as I am in the people who have said that he's town, particularly Nico and Elli (I probably should have asked them in particular) I can see why some people find him scummy from his posts, I can see why some people don't find him scummy for his posts, but I don't see how his posting style goes straight to Parama is town.
I probably am focusing on Jack too much, but I would still love to hear any reason why Jack's question avoidance and complete absence of a reason for the question avoidance is in any way pro-town.

As for xvart, I already gave a little on why I suspect him in a post a little after the one you quoted but I'll elaborate.
His case on Parama for the most part isn't even there- From what I can tell it consists of these two posts (second is cut before Elli/DGB mentions):

Anyone who understands how I play knows my alignment.

Woah. Talk about the biggest load of WIFOM right out of the gate.

##Vote: Parama

xvart.

I have yet to read a post by VP that I like. I just get a terrible gut feel from every one of his posts, and the logic is shallow, almost like he's not trying.

Why would you lead your case on gut, then follow with shallow logic? Wouldn't you want to lead with your most credible evidence (i.e. shallow posts) and then follow up with the less substantiated personal feelings of his posts?

And Para is probably Town too.

And why is that? The rapid backpedaling? The meta vs no-meta arguments?

The early WIFOM is a bit dumb on Parama's part IMO but using WIFOM doesn't mean scum, I don't see how Parama is backpedaling at all, and trying to make someone look suspicious based on the order of their post is terribad. Most of the rest of his posts that mention Parama just imply he's scum with comments like "Or you wish you had any town aligned role right now? " and don't add anything to his case.
As for his DGB/Elli madness, he keeps pushing on it being suspicious even after Llama points out that it probably came from a past game and how dumb Elli would have to be to claim it if he was scum.

Nico and Elli- How exactly does Parama's posting/voting style lead you to think he's town?

[Ellibereth]

PARATOWN
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13460
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13942
PARASCUM
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13729
(Yes Para, I left out Killer's )

Why did you leave out Llama who's also been majorly pressing Llama town.

[Gammagooey]

Because I really like the xvart-scum case and he was the first to say that Parama's town, so he can't be piggybacking on the read.

[Ellibereth]

I recall DGB and I calling Para town first. Whatevs.

[Zorblag]

@Ellibereth, posting like that's going to make me feel much better about my "believe DrippingGoofball's meta for now" stance on you.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Ellibereth]

EBWOP: 238 should say Llama pressing Paratown.

[Gammagooey]

Elli-Apparently I suck. I'm pretty sure he was the first to actually explain his Parama read though.

[xvart]

Xvart- Llama's iso 7.

Thank you very much.

xvart, to cut pointless going in circles in thread, Parama actually said one post after your original FoS on DGB/Elli that the qt mention was from their mafia 109 hydra.
You seem to have genuinely missed that but I just can't see that original suspicion as anywhere close to sincere.

I agree about going in circles, especially now that I've been proven incorrect in my suspicion. The last thing I will say is that in most every case, mentioning a QT

is

suspicious, or for those that want to splint hairs, worth questioning.

Guessing isn't scummy when it's just guessing, but when someone asks you how many scum are in the game and you come back with a very confident, exact number, it

is

suspicious. No townie role, at least in my experience, could possibly give you any clue as to the exact number of scum in a game. If it was a guess, fine, but the way Parama presented the number it sure didn't sound like a guess.

I couldn't agree more.

I am however, willing to accept that Parama was joking...

I do not believe that. Why present an exact figure and then come back with role pm as support as a joke? What was the point of the joke? Anyways, care provide an example of similar jokes?

@Nico: Funny, I could think of several townie roles that could give you exact numbers, and given the format of this game, I get the impression that at least one would exist.

Do you think that town is more likely to get a role like this?

Fishy and Balter on a scumteam.

Xvart is scum.

Jack is scum.

Parama is town.

Zorblag is probably scum.

I'm keeping my vote on Balter for the time being. I think Balter and Xvart have the same number of votes.

So basically you agree with the masses?

charter

- why did you choose to vote me instead of Balter? I don't understand the point of you commenting about how we were not equal, then voting me? If you wanted to put more pressure on me after you learned I was already highest in the vote count why didn't you raise my vote count when you thought they were equal?

xvart.

[xvart]

Sorry - I know I said I was going to drop it but I missed the laast page.

@farside - I suppose not. I felt it suspicious because I do not see the benefit of town members who have the ability to talk via QT; of course, I don't see the benefit of scum doing it either, but with the other factions it seemed suspicious enough for me.

Farside- I'm actually not as interested in Parama right now as I am in the people who have said that he's town...

As am I. I suppose I can see how others may not think he obvscum, but I cannot imagine where all these obvtown reads are coming from. I'll be looking at these people more later...

xvart.

[VP Baltar]

Beginning from post 153 on page 7 by xvart...I can see why people want to lynch him. Pushing the QT thing which was obviously reference to another game is very scummy. Additionally, his reasoning for choosing town is weird and doesn't seem like something that would cross my mind. Sounds contrived.

@VP: Mostly in addition to your other scumminess. It's mostly related to the Big Bad meta comment right after another rolefish. Seriously?

You know, every time I play with you my opinion just gets lower and lower. If you're not scum this game, you simply should stop playing mafia altogether. I honestly don't think you know what rolefishing is.

Contradiction of my own tells? What land are YOU coming from?

It was rather clear actually. You said I was pushing any available wagon, which was blatantly false. I had only expressed serious interest in lynching you or Parama. Then in the same post you FoS or Voted almost all of the major wagons. Calling something a scumtell and then doing it yourself shows cognitive dissonance and is a very good reason to call you scum.

@VP: really? xvart and VP are wagons? I see very few votes on either. So we have Parama and Jack. Are you telling me that none of these are scummy?

You know what would help this? Actual context so I know what you're talking about.

I've seen him as scum and as town. I'm overwhelmed with my sixth sense tingling that he's scum.

I'd like more detail if you can provide it. I've seen him as both town and scum, and I think Troll is very good at having consistent play as either. I'm not seeing a glaring difference in his play here, so you'll need to be more specific.

This guy is grasping at any available straw, and trying to turn anything he can find into a case at this point. We need a wagon going here. His vote seems to be in the wrong place, his reasons for suspicions all seem to ignore simple answers, nothing here reads like town trying to make a case.

I can agree with that assessment.

Fishy may be scum after all.

Um...ok, where did that come from?

Parama 169 is ><. You're really bad at this game, aren't you? Here's a cool example:

OMGUS =/= Vote
OMGUS = overreacting to a vote like you did in your previous post and trying to attack the player who attacked you.

Meanwhile, elsewhere:

OMGUS stands for "Oh My God, You Suck (for voting for me)!". it is sometimes used as a shorthand to

indicate that you are voting for someone primarily because they voted for you

.

indicate that you are voting

voting

You should perhaps consider sometime that five or six months on site isn't all that much in the grand scheme of things.

Setting up a dichotomy I see.

Implying you think we could be the same alignment? Haven't seen that from your play yet. But buzz words are fun.

*side track to charter*
Have we played any games together in the past where I was town? I really don't understand your obsession with me, especially considering your earlier points don't hold water. I know I took advantage of you in that open, but you don't have to be illogical about it.

@charter - He is stuck a little too hard on Parama lynch for my liking, but its nowhere near enough to vote him.

This is how I know Llama is town. He and I probably have a unique understanding of each other's scum play after Dark Goma Mafia where we had a strange symbiotic relationship. The fact that he's not pushing my wagon shows me his reads are accurate and coming from a town perspective.

Re: Parama. Parama is town. His posting, tone, and voting style are all consistent with my experience of TownParama.

How much experience do you have with ScumParama?

The continued, willful ignorance concerning the QT quote that Elli posted is pretty damning. "I highly doubt they share the town win condition" is probably the worst result to come out of this.

I agree with this. At first I could see him simply not understanding it, but clutching to it is scummy. Any town player would have let it go after it was explained.

someone needs to keep on VP if he's ever to be lynched.

Just as a note to you, I've only been genuinely mislynched once as town and that was my own damn fault (ask Llama), so best of luck to you this game. You'll have to NK me if you want me dead.

Gammagooey is acting weird this game. Usually he's super pro-town looking, but his posts on page 8 are meh.

Quick note: no time to fully explain this but you should know by now that I hate meta

Anyone who understands how I play knows my alignment.

I seriously don't get the town reads on him. Keep contradicting yourself champ.

People who I'm interested in hearing more from (which is what you said I didn't have) are DGB, DDD, Zor after DGB posts her case, and VP.

What would you like to hear from me?

I'm a bit swamped in real life but I'll catch up as soon as I can.

Can we get an ETA?

DGB, I think your case on Zorblag is really weak and not true other than maybe the random vote thing. Please see my above question.

Llama, is the only reason you think UK is "obviously town" meta based on that single game?

Not my meta, at least. Troll's style of thick, somewhat impenetrable posts is close to this regardless of alignment, at least from what I've seen.

Yerp. It's annoying honestly.

Phate is being ridiculously useless in this game compared to my very limited town meta of him.

Not much else to say, DGB's case is pretty decent, wanna see Troll respond to it

Not really. How much experience do you have with Troll?

I expect VP Baltar in particular to dislike this stance given what I had to say about Albert B. Rampage in Open 193

Not really for two reasons. 1) I have much more experience with DGB. 2) I don't think she says things just to get a reaction like ABR does. She is purposeful in her scumhunting even if she's very wrong at times.

Also, I should note that in the past that Cobalt seems to have a strong affinity toward lurking as scum...though I find it hard to believe he'd choose a scum role, so that is kind of a paradox for me.

Fishy and Balter on a scumteam.

How the fuck are you arriving at this conclusion? (here comes the cursing, one bottle of wine later)

Also,

Jack is scum.

Parama is town.

Zorblag is probably scum.

All of these reads are wrong. You've lost your town touch charter.

## Unvote
## Vote: xvart

(L-5 I believe)

That's today's lynch and should be pretty telling. If he flips town, I'm turning to Phate, Parama or Uk.

This post brought to you by;

[Ellibereth]

VP is town.

[Jack]

I don't get the "pushing obviously wrong case" as a scumtell...maybe if he was invested in pushing that case or something. But I don't see why he would be on page 1.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD Let's play a super awesome game.
Fill in the Blank.
Jack is town but completely ignoring questions multiple people have asked of him because ___________.

*The questions are dumb.
*The questions are redundant.
*The questions are annoying.
*The answer to the questions is obvious.
*He can get away with not answering the questions.
*He thinks the questionnaire(s) is/are scum and doesn't feel obliged to help them build a case.

I could probably come up with more, but I think you get the point by now. There are plenty of reasons I wouldn't bother answering questions as any alignment.