Lay of Leithian Mafia: Game Over!

[Cyberbob]

I certainly did question the SPS case, and I continued to do so after Iece gave me a summary of it that made it look like one of the worst wagons ever. I would absolutely do it again, too.

Vote Count 4 - 15: Lynch

curiouskarmadog -

5

- Budja, Kmd4390, Anon, Iecerint, Papa Zito
Anon - 1 - Starbuck
Iecerint -

5

- curiouskarmadog, xvart, Cyberbob, SpyreX, SocioPath
Starbuck - 4 - ooba, farside22, Jack, J-Scope

Not Voting (2): MehPlusRawr, Cobalt

With 17 players alive it'll take 9 to lynch and 9 to no-Lynch.

Deadline will be Wednesday May 10th at 8:26 Eastern Time.

[curiouskarmadog]

I am neither confirming or denying that I am a supersaint..

but if I was...(and I would like an answer from Bud, Iece, Anon, PZ, and whoever else)

would you have an objection to me chosing you hammers me?...if no why? ( I think these answers will be telling).

[xvart]

ooba - You saying I should read better... is that based on this question or just in general? Is there an answer somewhere that is obvious that I missed? How does "Someone watched PlayerX equal "someones power got transferred to PlayerX?"

To clarify .. I targeted someone last night and got the result .. "Someone watched PlayerX" .. Could be another watcher also (maybe of the race of men?) but think FFFF's power transferring is more likely ..

How does someone watching someone mean it is more likely that FFFF's role got transferred?

What is supersaint? Whoever hammers dies too?

xvart.

[Iecerint]

^ Ya. Is like a Bomb AFAIK.

It makes more sense for a consensus to form around who hammers you. If you're scum, you could still be a Bomb, so it's not that your choice is immaterial if you're scum. And even if you're town, you're not any more well-equipped to judge scum than the rest of us.

[SpyreX]

Scum bomb is marginal.

Actually, with the way this has panned out if CKD were to be a supersaint I'd be fine with him picking - the only caveat is I would lean hard against one of the dead-raised OR papa zito.

Sooorryyyy Budja:

My issue with fake daykills (and this INCREASES as the game goes on) is that, at heart, they are "lol, reactions". Further, it can act as a beautiful smokescreen to alter what is going on.

[Starbuck]

She may say board. I saw scum.

I guess it's too much to hope (and playing so many games with you) that you would actually know how I am by now.

FOS: All of those voting for me based on me just being lost

Starbuck, why not just leave it at that and try to regroup?

That's wtf I'm trying to do, but when I see things like...

SB has a meta of being useless

It's makes me not really want to put in the effort to regroup if I'm just going to get fucking insulted.



Also, you talked about the SPS case. I WAS NOT the only one who was asking about the basis of that case. Because I did read back and I didn't understand it.

[Papa Zito]

would you have an objection to me chosing you hammers me?...if no why? ( I think these answers will be telling).

I'm choking on the grammar a bit but if I read this right you want to pick who hammers you. I'm not really getting the logic of this, please explain.

@Starbuck

: I'm cool with you being "lost" as that happens to me all the time. So here's what I want you to do: plz take a look at curiouskarmadog in isolation and tell me what his alignment is. Don't forget to use the proper TPS Report header.

[farside22]

SB: Who is scum and why?

This game is very frustrating with so few flips and no scum flip so far.

[curiouskarmadog]

it was a typo..."you" was "who"

basically I am saying, if I was the supersaint, would you have issue if I pick WHO hammers me? if so why?

[ooba]

CKD, if you claimed SS, I wouldn't let you choose who hammers .. I believe the process of the town choosing who hammers you gives me more info - so its sort of a double lynch ..

But why not just claim "Vengeful Townie" and check for reactions? Let Budja get Venged I say!!

[Papa Zito]

basically I am saying, if I was the supersaint,
would you have issue if I pick WHO hammers me? if so why?

Okay so in this hypothetical we're pretending you're town.

I'd have to know what your reads were. Because if I disagree with your reads then yeah I'd take issue.

[farside22]

If CKD was SS. The town at large should have a say on who hammers so if we think one is scum and the other player we think is scum then we have a hope that the 2 for one we are right on one being scum.

CKD: Who is scum in your view and why?

[Jack]

It's not a case of "if CKD is SS". It's a case of "CKD is alluding to possibly being SS". So the best plan is to have someone volunteer.

[Jack]

Except that really, we should be talking about lynching starbuck. Although I'm feeling a bit convinced that her VT claim was genuine suddenly.

Let's lynch Anon

unvote, vote:Anon

[J-Scope]

Jah here. We're still thinking about the cases on Iec, but Anon doesn't look like a great wagon anymore.

@CKD: How is your Iec vote not OMGUS? (I'm asking because I think I might be reading it wrong)

@Socio: what if Iec's town meta is the same as his scum meta in your point?

@xvart: what is your biggest point on Iec? One of these?

<snip>...
(ISO43 you say SPS posts are scummy, but not for the reasons MPR stated.)

(ISO54 that

if

Jack wagon scum exist that your guess is CKB

or

SPS.)

-----

@J-Scope, Cyberbob also questioned the SPS wagon and plently of people were sheeping (myself included day 1). So that point looks weak to me.

My point isn't about who questioned the SPS wagon, and your comparison is the thing that's weak. Cyberbob questioned the SPS wagon, then gave his opinion on the case. Starbuck questioned the wagon, but didn't give any comment beyond this: [qoute="Starbuck"]Thank you, Iec, for giving me somewhat of an idea about what the SPS wagon is about.[/quote]That doesn't say whether she agrees with it or not, or even thinks it's a valid case. And there's no further comment until she voted to destroy him. Ignoring any possible connections between whatever Shovel flips, her desire to know the SPS case looks fake given she didn't comment on it. Its just stalling and fence-sitting from where I'm standing.[/ooc]

[ooba]

Got over my lethargy and did quick ISOs. Reads:

Scum:
Budja, Cyberbob, Jack

Neutral veering on the scummy side:
Iecerint

Town:
CKD, PZ, farside, Anon, Starbuck, xvart

~~~~
Also found links between the three people I thought were most likely to be scum ..

Jack:
- "Suppose I should recheck Budja." followed by nothing after that.
- Votes budja but revotes Anon in an hour because of "something he noticed yesterday but forgot"
- Apart from initial stong bus on CB, short followup posts to point out that CB is still in his reckoning - "Scumpoints" and so on - not trying to form a wagon on CB

Budja:
- Votes xvart but fos'es CB and Jack
- How his "fav wagon" had Jack but stopped so over time

CB
- mentions Budja's vote is terrible due to meta while Ice's case was also meta based. So why mention this? Sublte bus - but not going anywhere since it suspicion moved to Ice even though he likes xvart's case on Budja

Vote: Budja

. The fact that he's survived for so long is amazing! But I guess we can thank xolelf and FFFF for that.

Still have to read: MPR, SpyreX

[farside22]

unvote:
vote: Budja

Mikey likes. Although I have jack as a town read i think Budja doesn't look town and it will help me evaluate something more later if he does flip scum.

[Papa Zito]

Er.

Not that Budja is the paragon of townieness but my magic says he's like ~70% town.

There are better lynches today.

[farside22]

Er.

Not that Budja is the paragon of townieness but my magic says he's like ~70% town.

There are better lynches today.

I'm telling you. Think outside that box and vote Budja you will feel better about it.

[SocioPath]

@Socio: what if Iec's town meta is the same as his scum meta in your point?

I highly doubt that Iec abuses meta to falsify information and uses said information to try and cause a lynch as town, but if you can point me in the direction of where he has done such, be my guest.
Until then, his death is something I fight to the death for.

[Iecerint]

I've only played with Budja where he replaced caughtscum Percy in Nouns mafia IIRC, so I dun really know how he goes, but I just glanced through his iso and don't see anything objectionable, I guess partly because I have a scum read on xvart and a town read on Jack.

You've said your CKD thing is playing with him a bit ago and the SB thing looks like it's based on her earlier play. Can you explain where the xvart thing comes from? You mention liking one of his really early posts D1 in iso, but....

[curiouskarmadog]

basically I am saying, if I was the supersaint,
would you have issue if I pick WHO hammers me? if so why?

Okay so in this hypothetical we're pretending you're town.

I'd have to know what your reads were. Because if I disagree with your reads then yeah I'd take issue.

"hypthetical were pretending"? why does it matter? so you only want me to pick when you agree with the choice? the answer is yes or no, not "yes if..."...if no, why would you take issue? What if I said someone you dont agree with?...what if I said you? The whole basis of me getting lynched today is based on that you want us to believe you think I am scum. I have never seen a scum SS...so you should have no problem hammering me right? You should have no problem me picking who hammers me?

also PZ (and again, this is all "hypothetical") you have brought up that you think I am SS...based on something you might or might not have picked up on. And for whatever reason, you thought it was protown to bring that to everyone's attention (before I actually claimed ANYTHING)...

now, lets "pretend" that all that is true (I am indeed a town SS)..do you think scum would have jumped on my wagon by now, or just avoid it completely? Curious.

CKD: Who is scum in your view and why?

Well, you can look at my vote(for a partial answer)….will answer the rest in a bit, like to see how some things pan out….and how certain questions are answered…I think if I answer this question now, it would affect certain answers and actions….dont you?

@CKD: How is your Iec vote not OMGUS? (I'm asking because I think I might be reading it wrong)

you talking about my vote today or yesterday ?

what you should be asking is how is his vote not an OMGUS?

[farside22]

Missed the vote but agree with you there CKD. I remember reading something that I felt was off about Iec. Need to look back when I have more time.

[xvart]

@xvart: what is your biggest point on Iec? One of these?

Pretty much, but this one seals the deal in my eyes:

I don't understand your next question. IIRC, I thought the scummiest/most opportunistic Jack voters were CKD and SPS. (I think I thought CKD was particularly bad because he joined Jackwagon while supporting sketchyCB once people were saying they found CB town. SPS was due to relatively poor reasoning for the switch + lackluster play elsewhere.)

What I was getting at is the fact that you had already cast suspicion on SPS (in a FoS and saying his posts are scummy for a different, as of then, un-described reason) and then you say

IF

jack wagon scum exist it is either SPS or CKB. It appears to me that you you already suspect someone of being scum AND your secret towntell on Jack why the IF statement? Leaving a little wiggle room?

Iecrint is talking about

possible

scum on the wagon when he already FoS'ed someone on the wagon (and someone on his possible list).

I'm liking the Budja wagon more than the Iecrint wagon, but am fine with either should the Iecrint come back around.

Unvote
Vote: Budja

xvart.

[Iecerint]

So, in 62 pages, your case on me (incidentally, the player who was pushing your lynch yesterday) is pretty much based on semantics?

Jack did something that looked scummy, and he deserved votes for it. A few pages in, I realized what Jack was doing and that it WASN'T scummy (but only because of context) or even what it appeared to be. So I can't blame anyone for voting Jack, but I could note that the more opportunistic joiners were SPS and CKD. 3 days later, SPS is scum, and CKD is still scummy.

(It's worth noting that that was actually writ

before

the FoS. As I indicate in the post itself, I had had to PM Plum to ask whether it was OK to talk about the secret towntell in any detail. I wanted to go into more detail because SX was spending a lot of time worrying about Jack's Cop crumb thing, when it wasn't actually a scumtell if you understood the whole context.

This is sort of a silly point IMO, but you go so far as to point out that I'd "already" FoS'd someone on the wagon, and that's sort of not strictly true.)