Pledge of Allegiance (Game Over! Page 76)

[Jack]

Maybe I'm biased because I had a fairly recent game where someone soft claimed and accused, but the accused was a townie. And another game where someone went with a vague "pretty sure he's scum based on my role" type statement, which turned out be bogus, and the person who said it was scum.

Also, adding d3x to my scumlist so I don't forget.

[Jack]

Maybe I'm biased because I had a fairly recent game where someone soft claimed and accused, but the accused was a townie. And another game where someone went with a vague "pretty sure he's scum based on my role" type statement, which turned out be bogus, and the person who said it was scum.

Also, adding d3x to my scumlist so I don't forget.

[RedCoyote]

One more post before I've got to get to work.

Cobalt's lurkerscum is old hat. I should know, I nominated him for a scummy because of it. He was a hair away from being replaced out in that game too. Yes, I do object to specifics being asked about his role though, from you and Nico. Y'all are both likely fishing for information to help you and your group, whether that is mafia, cult, or some other third party (xvart's?), as opposed to the town. I don't see the town benefit in knowing the specifics behind Chrono's role at the moment. Do you disagree?

[Fishythefish]

What a thing to wake up to. A modkill, a night and a damning report on me.

Which is true. I'm not, in fact, town. Technically. I'm other. Here's my win con:
- I have certain criteria for amassing points.
- If I amass more points during the game than anyone else with this win con, I win.
Here is my power:
- One shot transmitting weak tracker. I target a player, and someone to get my results. The find out whether (but not who) the first player visits that night.
Here are the details of my win con:
- Town win + some number of points
- Surviving the game

without claiming

some (smaller) number of points
- Transmitting to a townie + snop
- Transmitting to scum - snop
- Being on a scum lynch wagon + snop
- Being on a town wagon - snop.
I'm not specifying the numbers of points because it would help my rivals. I will say that the track is kind of important. So. zoraster didn't get very many town picks, one assumes. Because my role is, in almost every way, protown. I suppose if I were to find out the other points factions, and their points conditions, I could act against them. But my interests are always going to be directly aligned with the town's, now my survivorness is invalidated.

[Chronopie]

So Fishy is Non-hostile Neutral survivor.

##Unvote

(The result I got was Not town)

[Fishythefish]

Actually, I'm currently a non-hostile neutral effective townie. Having (mostly) claimed, I get nothing for survival.

[Chronopie]

So you can still win if you die?

[Fishythefish]

Yep. My points system doesn't include anything about my survival or manner of death, now that I've claimed.

[Fishythefish]

Oh, and from my flavour xvart was almost certainly a member of a points-based faction. If he wasn't, it wouldn't be an outright lie, but it would certainly be bastard modding.

[popsofctown]

Lemme track someone plox.

[Fishythefish]

@People who think using statistics like I did is something for scum to hide behind (off the top of my head, DDD and Jack?):
Statistics/maths/maths type logic is something that informs my thinking in mafia (as well as in everything else). When this is particularly relevant, I say so. In this case, someone was attacking me with a fundamentally unsound argument. I think it would have been bizarre behaviour not to point this out. Using statistics certainly shouldn't be a scumtell in general, and applying it in this case is utter nonsense. Would you really expect me to ignore the fact that someone is using a flawed argument to show I'm scum?

[popsofctown]

Most people have problems in life because they don't use enough math tbh.

[Gammagooey]

Hay fishy, question time.

You say

- If I amass more points during the game than anyone else with this win con, I win.

and also

Oh, and from my flavour xvart was almost certainly a member of a points-based faction. If he wasn't, it wouldn't be an outright lie, but it would certainly be bastard modding.

-Do you know who else is in your faction?
-Are you competing to get points for your faction so that your entire faction wins or are you getting points for for yourself and only one member of each point-faction can win?

[Fishythefish]

I am competing to get points for my faction, which is not the same as xvart's (I had no knowledge of xvart or his faction prior to his flip). I haven't claimed and won't claim anything about the composition of my faction - that would damage my interests by giving other points factions information about how well I am likely to be doing. If there are other players in it, I know who they are, we all win or lose together, and except in specialised night actions (if any) we have the same points system.

[Gammagooey]

Cool.

##Unvote

Considering Xvart's flip and how elaborate the claim is, I believe it. I'll put up a NEW AND IMPROVED scumlist later today.

[Jack]

Let's lynch pops.

[DrippingGoofball]

So can we lynch Jack since he doesn't seem to be aligned with the town, you ninja? kthx.

Jack is not town. This is abundantly clear. Quite likely OTHER - he's been hinting all over the place, sometimes on purpose, sometimes not.

[UncertainKitten]

@Gamma: Because PGO is one of those early claim things. What if you had been wagoned?

Either way, I was hoping to get a better answer. Ah well, at least it wasn't a scummy one.

@Elli: That's indeed interesting, though Parama did have a bad start. I don't really have any dispute with those three names since only Fishy has struck me as possibly town. farside has been underwhelming, but I couldn't put my finger on it without an ISO, and I have no read on imaginality.

And yeah, RC does kinda look bad, though admittedly I skimmed half his posts since he doesn't seem to understand how to use links, or you know, post succinctly at all. Probably will vote him after this wall unless I see something silly.

@Chronopie: Hey look, I saw something silly ^-^. OMGUS without providing any content is really cool, yanno?

@Chronopie: Then why are you voting Llama?

##FoS: Chronopie
##Vote Fishy

@Chronopie: Why did you wait until after the wagon partially started to vote Fishy?

@pops: Yeah, I got that after the fact.

@Llama/Jack debate: Llama's right. Survivors effectively count as scum in lylo. As do jesters. Non hostile rarely helps the town.

@Nico:

##FoS: Nico

@RC: Do you think that taking Fishy to L-3 was a good idea in that post? I know you're the other wagon but you could at least give a warning. Also, who said you were Fishy's partner?

@RC: Where did Jack rolefish Chrono? Either way, still curious why you put Fishy to L-3.

@Llama: That's not a breadcrumb. That's a friggen' softclaim.

@RC: Least you caught Nico's rolefish.

@Fishy: You're an outsider? Really? I want you to die before endgame. But I think we can give you a little more time for the time being.

Also,

##Unvote, Vote Nicodemus

Hi, rolefishing sucks.

[Ellibereth]

Fishy's point-gathering competitors should claim now.
Being forced to claim later will result in getting NUKED.

[Jack]

Chronopie, why did you investigate Fishy?

[Zorblag]

Hmmm, that's not a lot of kills for the night and the couple hours that Zoraster mentioned for night actions seems to have gone by quickly so probably there shouldn't have been that many missed night actions due to people missing the surprise twilight deadline. That and the flips thus far make me think that rather than not many people picked town (as Fishythefish suggests) it's more likely that not many people picked scum.

For what it's worth I mostly agree with Jack's take on popsofctown. I don't see the reaction to DrippingGoofball's fake day vig as being any sort of indication that he's town and it's kind of surprising to me that others do. I'll go into that in a bit more detail this afternoon I think.

@Gammagooey, I was disappointed by people falling out of love with the Phate wagon. That was due primarily to the timing. They were letting him off the hook before he'd done anything in the way of finding someone he actually thought was scum so I find it premature. A ranking of 6 in terms of the post just means that I found it useful for working out alignments (in this case for looking at for the future mostly); I would have given any post that pinned down an alignment with certainty (Phate's or someone else's) a 10. Like I said, the case itself was around a 4 for me.

If I had been made king and the day had ended yesterday when you were asking I'd have picked popsofctown over Phate as the lynch pretty easily. It still thought the wagon going on Phate could have done some more before it floundered. For what it's worth I did get something out of it though; I like farside22's actions and timing a fair amount.

@Fishythefish, your claim brings up a couple questions.

1. What counts as a claim for your point system? Could you have fake claimed something else and gotten the survivor points? That's a pretty nebulous thing to hang point values on and is easily the part of your role I find least believable.

2. Do you learn if the person you transmit your information to is town?

3. Am I reading right that you get no points (positive or negative) for transmitting to those of other alignments?

4. Have you used your track/transmit ability yet?

@Chronopie, why didn't you vote for Fishythefish first thing day two if you knew he wasn't town? Why didn't you vote for him when you revealed that you knew he wasn't town?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Jack]

For what it's worth, I ran a "pick your side" as a minigame on another site. 4 people chose townie and 3 people chose other.

[Zorblag]

@Jack, was that out of seven?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Fishythefish]

@Fishythefish, your claim brings up a couple questions.

1. What counts as a claim for your point system? Could you have fake claimed something else and gotten the survivor points? That's a pretty nebulous thing to hang point values on and is easily the part of your role I find least believable.

2. Do you learn if the person you transmit your information to is town?

3. Am I reading right that you get no points (positive or negative) for transmitting to those of other alignments?

4. Have you used your track/transmit ability yet?

1. Specifically, claiming name, role name, or win con accurately counts as a claim. Within that, it's up to the mod's judgement. I can ask the mod for clarification or judgement on a particular claim. The only clarification I ever received was that claim one-shot weak tracker was absolutely fine. My impression is the concrete things of name and rolename invalidate survivorness, plus anything that says or implies I'm not protown.

2. No.

3. Indeed. Same goes for lynching them.

4. No. I intend to use it tonight.