Pledge of Allegiance (Game Over! Page 76)

[Zorblag]

@LlamaFluff, are you saying that you think the answers he gave (or, rather failed to give as he still hasn't said why he didn't vote for Fishythefish) strike you as true? I don't think I'm willing to accept that just yet.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[LlamaFluff]

@LlamaFluff, are you saying that you think the answers he gave (or, rather failed to give as he still hasn't said why he didn't vote for Fishythefish) strike you as true? I don't think I'm willing to accept that just yet.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

I buy it. He wasnt in serious danger of being lynched unless he thought I was a cop with a guilty. Even if he was convinced that fishy wasnt town, thats not a move scum will take.

The play reads complete newbie-PR.

Also if fishy is telling the truth (which I still am super sure he is) chrono cant be scum with him. This leaves it being a guess or an anti-town rolecop. No reason for anti-town to claim kill magnet role, so he is regular town.

What do you think he is any why?

[Zorblag]

@LlamaFluff, I'm still trying to work out what I think of Chronopie which is why I'm asking the questions and applying some pressure. I've had very little experience as a power role myself. I think that I've gotten a total of one PM saying what my results are from the night in all my games here but I know that was the first thing that I was interested in when that game day started. I have trouble believing that someone expecting such a PM wouldn't be checking that as soon as possible.

I'm also not quite sure what a motive cop is, but we've had one of those from the town already and it seems pretty similar to what Chronopie would be claiming to be. I'm not overly sure that I think that town should have too many more investigative roles. If we're willing to believe that farside22 is some sort of town tracker (and I think she's more likely to be town than Chronopie is at this point) then that's getting to be quite a few out already.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

@LlamaFluff, do me a favor and let me know what you think the chances of farside22 and RedCoyote being on a non-town faction together are. I've just had paranoia kick in.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[LlamaFluff]

@LlamaFluff, do me a favor and let me know what you think the chances of farside22 and RedCoyote being on a non-town faction together are. I've just had paranoia kick in.

Pretty low. Either way neither of them are lying about what happened during the night.

[Zorblag]

@LlamaFluff, how much would you say that you're scum hunting and how much would you say you're hunting for non-town at this point?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Fishythefish]

Information time!

There are exactly

3

factions with "points victory" conditions. They are, shockingly enough,

The Legislature

,

The Judiciary

and

The Executive

. One of these you've already seen; you'll see another when I flip. There is no possibility that there are any more, and there is no possibility that these do not all exist. They could have any number of members each, but if I'd had to guess I'd say they all have at least two. Best of luck trying to lynch them all

Analysis time!
1. With the points system,

non-hostile other can be directly aligned with or against the town

. Being non-hostile is neither a scumtell nor a towntell. Other non-hostile protown people

will lie

to protect their survivor conditions and the secrecy of their actions. They'll probably lie rather more than I have, and particularly in massclaim. If you carry on getting reports on them and lynching them, you will lose. You can't afford to waste your lynches on people who are more than 90% aligned with you. The argument that I'm openly not protown is silly and meaningless - while I'm not doing the best possible thing for the town, my continued existence is most definitely protown, and that's all you should care about.
2. It's very possible that all of the points factions are actually protown. It feels like putting in some players who win with the scum is likely not to be needed.
3. You have a bus driver among you, assuming farside is telling the truth. If I thought that it would save me, I'd claim who I visited last night, and you'd know who got bussed. But even if that were confirmed, all you'd conclude is that I was trying to roleblock someone else, so there's absolutely no point.

Explanations!
This section is intended to explain why I acted as I did. The main point is that I'm believed after I'm dead, or at some later stage, though if you want to find it convincing enough to let me off the hook that's all good as well.
1. My partner(s). The abilities of my faction are all factional abilities. If I trueclaimed all my abilities, I effectively removed a safe (or rather true) claim for them. It would also give other points factions significant information about how riskily they needed to play, and possibly ways to stop us scoring points. I gambled on noone knowing I visited last night; I lost.
2. Thinking. It's in my interests to stay alive. After farside's report came out, I was all but dead, but it's still in my interests to tell you quite a lot. These conflicted with 1). I needed time to think about the best course of action, and to discuss with my partner(s), who I'd like to thank for their excellent input.
3. Applying "Lynch all Liars", "withholding information", "not playing for the town" is a mistake. My win con isn't to make the town win. These tells/slogans are all designed to tell town from scum or hostile other (in zoraster's terminology). I have throughout acted in a protown way, except where I felt there was a risk of harming my faction through too much claiming. You will not win this game without opening your minds on this issue.

All I'm really saying is, read what I've said and when. My claim is consistent with my actions. If you believe the points system, I don't think there's any reason to disbelieve me. And I'll say it one more time, for luck:

TL;DR: There are 3 points scoring factions, probably comprising at least 6 people between them. It is possible that these players are mostly or all protown. If you lynch them all, you will lose.

[Zorblag]

@Fishythefish, did you have any sort of fake claim? A truthful answer to this is more likely to hurt the other factions than your own (or at least the one that's not the Legislature I suppose.)

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[charter]

I swear to god if people unvote, I am going to lose it.

There's a reason why we lynch anyone not town. If not really obvious to you now, it will be later in the game.

[Fishythefish]

@Fishythefish, did you have any sort of fake claim? A truthful answer to this is more likely to hurt the other factions than your own (or at least the one that's not the Legislature I suppose.)

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

No. I grumbled to the mod about this; I'm not allowed to claim my name, but have no fake claim of any kind.

[Fishythefish]

@charter: the excellent strategy "if it's not town, lynch it" has evolved in conditions where the town almost always have a significant majority until very late in the game. In all likelihood, this is not the case here.

[Zorblag]

@Fishythefish, is there a reason that you haven't claimed your name (by which I assume you should mean Flavor Title) up till now? I'd also be interested in your motive unless there's a reason not to share it.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Fishythefish]

No reason. A vague feeling that giving other point factions information is a bad plan. There's no link between the role or flavour name and the abilities or win con that I can see.

[Zorblag]

@Fishythefish, are the point values that you're looking at orders of magnitude different for the different conditions or are they all within a factor of 10 of eachother? Should we expect the factions to care hugely about finding scum/town/other to score points?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Fishythefish]

They are all between -5 and 5, and most if not all between -2 and 2.

[Fishythefish]

Further to this; it wouldn't need extreme events for us to finish on - points. The day and night phases carry approximately the same weight.

[Zorblag]

@Fishythefish, do you have anything other than the assumption that the game is balanced to make you think that the other factions have the same basic conditions for their points? If you had the option would you reveal the members of the other factions?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Fishythefish]

None whatsoever. Everything concrete I know, other than the particulars of my faction, is out here. If I had that option, I'd have to think hard about it - I'll give the pros and cons a little thought today.

I'm afraid I'm off now. I hope to be alive when I return later today.

[UncertainKitten]

Caught up, not much to respond to. I kinda wanna lynch fishy, but I could also see where keeping him alive could be helpful. Quite frankly, the Fishy wagon was REALLY easy for scum to jump onto, and I fully expect to see the majority of the scum team on it. I think I might want to ISO those who jumped on it at first. But I have a lot to do, so I'll hopefully get to this today or tomorrow.

[Fishythefish]

@Zorblag: Knowing the identities of the other points factions would leave with the options of outing them and hoping they die, trying to get them lynched or ignoring them. I don't know what I'd do. Not actually knowing what they want out of the game makes it pretty hard to oppose them.

I do know one thing. The other points factions will be among those who have been pushing hardest for my lynch - particularly if there's anyone who pushed for it between my claim and farside's.

[Fishythefish]

Not much happened between my claim and farside's. I'll have a look at the wagon generally, but I'm guessing there's little to be drawn from it.

[DrippingGoofball]

Quite frankly, the Fishy wagon was REALLY easy for scum to jump onto.

Not only that, but the "others" will want to be rid of a competitor, and the town will want to be rid of some funky alignment that doesn't help the town. In fact, it's probably the "others" that are the most eager to lynch Fishy, town second, and scum just being old-fashioned opportunistic.

TL;DR - Everyone wants Fishy dead.

[Ellibereth]

I totally believe Fishy.
Thinking about massclaim...or mass-peoplewhoarenotobvtown-claim. Probably stupid idea.
Can someone compile a list of eveyrone voting Fishy, no time to do it myself right now.

[zoraster]

Day 2 Vote Count

charter ( 0 )
Chronopie ( 0 )
d3x ( 0 )
Debonair Danny DiPietro ( 0 )
DrippingGoofball ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 0 )
farside22 ( 0 )
fishythefish ( 9 ) DrippingGoofball d3x farside22 RedCoyote charter Debonair Danny DiPietro StrangerCoug Gammagooey Zorblag
Gammagooey ( 0 )
imaginality ( 0 )
Jack ( 0 )
StrangerCoug ( 0 )
LLamaFluff ( 0 )
Nicodemus ( 1 ) UncertainKitten
phate ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 1 ) Jack
RedCoyote ( 1 ) Nicodemus
Shotty to the Body ( 0 )
UncertainKitten ( 0 )
Plum ( 0 )
Zorblag ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 9 ) fishythefish phate Shotty to the Body imaginality popsofctown Chronopie LLamaFluff Ellibereth Plum
Total Votes ( 21 )

Deadline: May 24th at 11:00 EDT
With 21 able to vote, 11 needed to lynch.

Just a note of warning: I graduate on Friday and then go on vacation for the next week. The place I'm going is supposed to have wireless access, but you never know. Assuming that it does have access, I'll be around enough to run the game, but my response time will likely be a bit slower than normal.

[UncertainKitten]

I disagree, DGB. Though you have a point about the others. But I think that scum who were around would be like "Oh hey, someone who's not us is being called guilty, let's jump! Everyone will think we're ok fellas and not actually look at this wagon because everyone will be on it soon enough "