Mini 945: Mafia in Bawlmer - GAME OVER

[Dizzle]

CyberBob - Why would you be down with lynching me? Do you no longer feel Neto is attempting to buddy you up?

Neto - What worries me about you is your carelessness with the evidence you present. Why? Because scum know that, unless they are bussing, that each piece of evidence of someone's guilt isn't true to begin with. Since they are creating cases out of nothing, I feel it's more likely for them to make the little mistakes that you've made over and over again.

[Netopalis]

So, you think that it's impossible to make a case against someone who's town without fabricating evidence? That's laughable. It's ridiculously easy.

[StrangerCoug]

Neto - What worries me about you is your carelessness with the evidence you present. Why? Because scum know that, unless they are bussing, that each piece of evidence of someone's guilt isn't true to begin with. Since they are creating cases out of nothing, I feel it's more likely for them to make the little mistakes that you've made over and over again.

I'm not sure I understand this statement. The logic's probably sound, but what's throwing me off is that town is as capable of mislynching as scum is. (It's unlikely to be relevant here, but it also doesn't cover multiball, where multiple scum teams have to kill each other off.)

[Dizzle]

Where did I say it was impossible? All I'm saying is that it's more likely for scum to present fiction as fact because they are presenting townies as scum.

[Dizzle]

SC - it's not about mislynching town, it's repeated misrepresentations or pure faulty information.

[StrangerCoug]

I expect to be hanged if I said you said town mislynching is impossible. It happens all the time.

[StrangerCoug]

Sorry—Dizzle crossposted and I thought #553, not #554, was directed at me.

[Netopalis]

*shrug* Everybody does things which are scummy, some more than others. If you look at my past games as scum, I rarely, if ever, make false statements about another players' acts in order to get a lynch.

[Dizzle]

It's not about purposely making false statements or blatantly misrepresenting, obviously that would be a really easy way to find yourself lynched. Since scum are lying their way through the game they are more prone to getting their facts mixed up. No one really seems to be with me on this, but I believe it.

[Netopalis]

Well, good for you, then. Have a cookie.

[Ythan]

So you're saying that he's

not

blatantly lying?

[Dizzle]

He definitely said a lot of things that were false. Whether it was by design or he simply lost track of the truth because he was more interested in framing townies, I don't know.

[Ythan]

I don't feel that this is in line with your previous statements. Last straw for me.

vote Dizzle

[MacavityLock]

So, over my re-read, the two that jumped out as scummy were xvart and Neto.

xvart -

The whole jumping the gun and misreading things at the very top of the game is strange, and could definitely come from skimming, a scum trait. I don't like that dramonic was in his top 2 on Day 1. Unless dramonic was specifically acting scummy and was worthy of a regular Day 1 case, I have a hard time seeing a miller lynch as all that useful. The same goes for xvart's focus on dramonic on Day 2. Yes, he has to go eventually, but there's other stuff going on and trying to shift focus to dramonic seems like a distraction. It seems like an opportune time to attempt to drum up a mislynch. In the post where he voted dram Day 2, he was talking about other stuff and didn't even provide his reason for voting.

xvart - Did you vote DC solely for his terrible claim?

I didn't vote solely for his name claim; but I doubt I would have voted for him (unless a deadline forced me to) if it weren't for "claiming" a town roleblocker role.

I'm not sure I understand this. Was the word "claim" enough to get you to hammer? SC brought this up too, but I don't see it. Scumbuddy finally giving up and trying to manufacture a reason to bus? There are much worse things about that claim, and it's weird that you focused on the word "claim".

A very intriguing NK... why kill the claimed miller? Possibly the only really neutral person in terms of relationships... I'm guessing someone(s) may have been on the right track yesterday. Time to go back and look at some FoS's.

Was he trying to set up some sort of mislynch via an unlikely dram-miller kill?

He was on both town wagons, and was the quick hammerer on luke. There's no doubt that the luke lynch was quicker than it needed to be.

Claim, lukepuke. I am on standby to hammer post claim as needed.

Was it really needed so soon?

Additionally, xvart's Chevre vote was L-1 and a direct follow of Cyberbob, and didn't even point out L-1-ness or request a claim.

Isos 38-40 deal with trying to direct the Ythan jailing, when it's easily plausible that the scum still have something to mess with Ythan.

----

Neto -

Iso 1 puts DC in the famed "3rd suspicion" spot. Just high enough to be able to say you thought he was suspicious, but not an all out bus, if you can avoid it. I also wonder if the "DC failtown vs scum" was a poll question designed to figure out if he needed to bus to stay safe.

The multiple reads of Chevre in iso 11 remains very strange, though they aren't completely contradictory.

His Chevre vote was also clearly an unoriginal follow, though certainly not as egregious as xvart's.

I've also discussed my issues with his being wrong about things in his attacks on me, and why I think they come from a player who found his targets before finding his evidence.

I don't have a major problem with the low post volume (as in I don't think it's directly scummy), but it leaves us with much less to work with, so I'm "normalizing" his scummy factor vs his post volume.

----

All told, xvart clearly has more things I find scummy, so

Vote: xvart

, but I wouldn't be against backing a Neto wagon.

[Dizzle]

I don't feel that this is in line with your previous statements.

Would you care to clarify this at all? And given Neto's views towards me, is it such a great idea for me to be at L-1?

[Ythan]

I voted you because I think you're scum. Am I supposed to be afraid that Neto's going to hammer?

[Dizzle]

Luke got hammered pretty quickly, but whatever, I'm more interested in your clarification.

[Ythan]

My recent incessant questioning of you has returned few if any satisfying answers.

[Netopalis]

ML: That's an interesting read on Xvart, but how do you reconcile the fact that Dramonic was killed with the fact that Xvart found him to be scummy? It seems as if Xvart thought he would be lynched, he wouldn't waste a kill.

[MacavityLock]

ML: That's an interesting read on Xvart, but how do you reconcile the fact that Dramonic was killed with the fact that Xvart found him to be scummy? It seems as if Xvart thought he would be lynched, he wouldn't waste a kill.

Well, he tried and failed twice to drum up a lynch on dram. Maybe trying a different tack?

[Netopalis]

But why would he be so worried about getting rid of Dramonic? Dramonic didn't even

mention

Xvart. At all.

[xvart]

That's largely irrelevant. For all we know, you could be lurking scum in those games too.

That's quite a stretch, don't you think?

Feel like he wanted something more to supplement it with, which makes me think he doesn't think it's much of a case.

I completely agree.

I'm pretty down with a Dizzle lynch, though I'm wary of a possible bus from xvart (only because the waters are muddied enough such that bussing isn't a particularly dangerous option).

Vote: Dizzle

That would be a hell of a bus; especially since I have no plans of getting off the Dizzle lynch unless something crazy happens or someone comes out and claims scum.

Was the word "claim" enough to get you to hammer? SC brought this up too, but I don't see it. Scumbuddy finally giving up and trying to manufacture a reason to bus? There are much worse things about that claim, and it's weird that you focused on the word "claim".

Yes. Typically townies wouldn't say "my claim is this..." or "I'm claiming this..." They say "I am..."

xvart.

[Netopalis]

Xvart: On the claiming thing, you're generally right, but I have seen townies say that they're claiming something.

[MacavityLock]

But why would he be so worried about getting rid of Dramonic? Dramonic didn't even

mention

Xvart. At all.

Oh, well, that I can't answer. Maybe dram was onto a remaining buddy? Maybe they caught some secondary power role tell? I don't know.

Yes. Typically townies wouldn't say "my claim is this..." or "I'm claiming this..." They say "I am..."

That's pretty weak, in my opinion.

[Dizzle]

My recent incessant questioning of you has returned few if any satisfying answers.

You've questioned me, sure, but I don't think you've once said what you actually find scummy about me. Seems like kind of an important thing to mention.

But why would he be so worried about getting rid of Dramonic? Dramonic didn't even

mention

Xvart. At all.

Well, he did say he had insecurities about you...

That's largely irrelevant. For all we know, you could be lurking scum in those games too.

That's quite a stretch, don't you think?xvart.

The point was that we shouldn't concern ourselves with what Neto says is going on his other games or in his real life.

Yes. Typically townies wouldn't say "my claim is this..." or "I'm claiming this..." They say "I am..."

That's pretty weak, in my opinion.

Seconded. Especially if that was enough to push you from failtown to scum on DC.