Mini 950: DCI Mafia (The Results Are In...)


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Post Post #625 (ISO) » Wed May 12, 2010 11:08 am

Post by Trumpet of Doom »

Those of you considering No Lynching (and the rest of you as well) might find Rule 10 informative.

This Public Service Announcement has been brought to you by ESPN's coverage of the DCI Semifinals.


ToD Presents: The Best of DCI (Phantom Regiment, 2008: SPARTACUS)

Vote Count Q:
CryMeARiver (1, L-3) - Stephoscope

Not Voting (5): kunkstar7, Nachomamma8, Nicodemus, Slaxx, CryMeARiver
4 votes are required to lynch.

Current Deadline:
Wednesday, May 19, 2010, ~9:00 PM CDT (GMT-6+1)
Discretion is the better part of valor.
If I helped lynch you, you deserved it.

Retired from playing for the foreseeable future.
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Post Post #626 (ISO) » Wed May 12, 2010 11:09 am

Post by CryMeARiver »

Stephoscope wrote:I am Pacific Crest, vanilla town. If anyone needs any other info, let me know.

I obviously pass the baton to CMAR.
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Post Post #627 (ISO) » Wed May 12, 2010 3:14 pm

Post by Nachomamma8 »

Okay, I'm ready.

First of all, Slaxx is town.

I'm not concerned whether Kunk is scum or not, we're in MyLo and we have 2 scum left, so we're definitely not lynching the doctor. He claimed early and no one counterclaimed, which is a great sign. I believe his claim.

I'm pretty damn sure there's scum between Steph and CMAR, but I don't think both of them are scum...

Leaving Nicodemus to lynch. I haven't been comfortable with him all game, his attempt to get kunk lynched is scummy, and hes been coasting along with minimal effort. There's also the added bonus of PoE pointing to him as most likely scum, so...

Vote: Nicodemus
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Post Post #628 (ISO) » Wed May 12, 2010 3:45 pm

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I am not a man of math, but I think a NL would be statistically favorable today.
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Post Post #629 (ISO) » Wed May 12, 2010 4:31 pm

Post by Nachomamma8 »

Statistically, yes. Strategically, no.

No lynching in 2-scum MyLo isn't a good idea when you still have a doctor alive, and a good idea for who is scum. If we no-lynch today, then scum can kill whoever they please without fear of doctor protects. If we lynch scum, then scum will have to kill kunk (or fear a successful doctor protect, and thus give us an extra day). In addition, it'll be better to wait until 3-1 to no-lynch; that way, we'll be able to narrow the pool even more.
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Post Post #630 (ISO) » Wed May 12, 2010 6:34 pm

Post by Slaxx »

Okay, still, just in case, I would prefer nobody put a second vote on anyone. ISOs up within 24 hours.
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Post Post #631 (ISO) » Thu May 13, 2010 5:46 am

Post by Nachomamma8 »

You will be held to that time frame, strongest town read or not :P
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Post Post #632 (ISO) » Thu May 13, 2010 9:06 am

Post by Slaxx »

Yawn. Waking up at 2 PM is awesome. Alright, I guess its time to get going. I thought getting out of school meant no more work, but obviously not.



Page 1Nothing special here. Only RQS. Nacho refuses to answer them, which is actually a town read to me. In my opinion, scum would not want to attract any negative attention towards themselves, especially that early in the game. As Nicodemus said, usually scum like to disguise their uselessness.

Nacho: 1 Town Point


Page 2Page 2 is where I get my first scum read. Muh/CMAR seems reluctant to vote here. I don't like having to pressure people to vote in RVS, its never been a good sign for me.

Muh/CMAR:2 Scum Points


Page 3This page is where some controversy starts to spark. This is where it would have been nice to have at least one scum flip. Nothing extremely eventful goes on here. Only notable events are Stephoscope's lurking and kunk and I's back and forth on more or less game mechanics. Nacho and Parama go back and forth but I would say its a pretty safe bet they are not on the same team (SK flip)


Page 4Kunk calls out Nacho for a random vote. I like this, because he even got on to me about not getting on to him about it. Secondly throughout the game and as of late every now and then a Nacho/Kunk scumteam kept itching at my conscience. However I don't think this is the case, mainly due to this post. One thing I saw back on page 1 was kunk's reason to vote Nacho was for "winning". I might was well address the concern now.

Kunk: What was the meaning behind your very first RVS on nacho when you said "for winning"?


Also, in other news, Steph finally appears on the scene.

Another interesting move is when Nicodemus refuses to put kunk at L-2. However, he votes muh, which is a cool thing to do. I don't think kunk and Nicodemus are a scum team, simply because of recent events. I don't think scum would want to risk a bus with only two of them and a serial killer running around.

Nicodemus, can you link me to any games where you were hesitant about placing the L-2 or similar vote as TOWN?


Page 5None of you posted here xD. Stephoscope disco danced, but thats about it. Speaking of that.

Stephoscope: 1 Scum Point for active lurking.


Page 6Nacho prefers the kunk wagon over the ani wagon.


Page 7Nicodemus's hypocrisy on this page rubs me the wrong way. First of all, Nacho is right. Its a copout of scumhunting. Then nicodemus turns around and admits it to be a copout.

Nicodemus: 1 Scum Point


Page 8The back and forth between me and Stephoscope. Here's what's up: the wording in his first post is pretty confident. Based on this I don't think Stephoscope and Nicodemus are partners. Post 184 seems like an overreaction, which bugs me a little bit. As I mentioned, Steph continues to tunnel on looker and not hunt for any other scum. Not a good thing.

Stephoscope: 1 Scum Point


Page 9Stephoscope dishes out a copout statement. Post 209. Basically saying "Well I am going to continue tunneling on looker even though I know he won't respond because he said he was gonna get replaced anyway but don't suspect me for it even though there are other scum to be had"


Page 10Nicodemus gets reads up, they seem town-motivated. Kunk seems timid about getting on wagons, which is actually a town tell to me, and even moreso a doc tell.


Page 11Steph's post 268 rubs me the wrong way. Also: Kunk's refusal to jump on the ani wagon when there is a wagon on him gives him town points. I remember asking that question for a reason =P


Page 12For some reason Starbuck's post made me lol. Anyway, CMAR gives a town motivated case on nikanor here.


Page 13Post 305 is like, just wut. "His case makes sense, but my gut is telling me otherwise".


Half time Folks. right now scum is either Nacho/Kunk (unlikely) or Nicodemus/CMAR (more likely). I want to say stepho is scum so bad but I can't really pair him up with anyone besides maybe Nacho or Kunk.
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Post Post #633 (ISO) » Thu May 13, 2010 9:09 am

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Btw, typo in page 6. Nacho wanted the ani wagon, not kunk wagon.
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Post Post #634 (ISO) » Thu May 13, 2010 9:40 am

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Nacho, I also have an investigation though. Assuming kunk is doc they would have to kill him anyway. So they can get to me the next day. I still think a NL is better so I can get another investigation, Unless there is a roleblocker which I guess is a possibility.
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Post Post #635 (ISO) » Thu May 13, 2010 9:47 am

Post by CryMeARiver »

CryMeARiver wrote:
kunkstar7 wrote:Alright, I guess I'm claiming now to help this lynch out if deadline is today. I'm Santa Clara Vanguard, a doctor. I protected Nacho Night 1 as he seemed the towniest through Day 1.

Parama's bribing Starbuck and Slaxx with town cred is horrible, as is Nico's out of nowhere vote.
Your protection doesn't have a flavor name does it? (This question is only posed to Kunk)
Stethescope wrote:I am Pacific Crest, vanilla town. If anyone needs any other info, let me know.

I obviously pass the baton to CMAR.
Flavor please
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Post Post #636 (ISO) » Thu May 13, 2010 9:54 am

Post by Slaxx »

There are other things that can be commented on CMAR.
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Post Post #637 (ISO) » Thu May 13, 2010 10:29 am

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Nachomamma8 wrote:Leaving Nicodemus to lynch. I haven't been comfortable with him all game, his attempt to get kunk lynched is scummy, and hes been coasting along with minimal effort. There's also the added bonus of PoE pointing to him as most likely scum, so...
How is stating blatant truths scummy? Why would scum not kill the doctor, other than the fact that the doctor is scum himself? It makes no sense. There is absolutely no reason for the mafia to leave a claimed doctor alive from my point of view.

Unfortunately, you're a strong town read of mine, so I can't really attack you for this logic, but it's still troubling.

As for me, my top two suspects in this game are kunk and CMAR, with Steph a possibility for scum with kunk. Although I was uneasy about Steph's play early on, I think I've been convinced by his weird attacks on CMAR as just too ballsy to be coming from scum. CMAR hasn't made me any more comfortable with his overreactions to Steph's case, he was a major lurker on D1 and just tunneled on Nikanor for all of D2. I still think that the best strategy is no lynch for the investigation that slaxx can get, but otherwise I'm voting kunk today.
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Post Post #638 (ISO) » Thu May 13, 2010 10:52 am

Post by Slaxx »

By the way, CMAR is pretty much using flavor as an excuse for scumhunting I believe. You can analyze flavor all you want but I would prefer you look at behavioral patterns instead.
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Post Post #639 (ISO) » Thu May 13, 2010 11:15 am

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Slaxx wrote: Nacho, I also have an investigation though. Assuming kunk is doc they would have to kill him anyway. So they can get to me the next day. I still think a NL is better so I can get another investigation, Unless there is a roleblocker which I guess is a possibility.
Nope, scum can also kill you today, hoping to out-wifom kunk. And if they miss a protection, they don't lose anything at all. Also, I'm guessing there's a roleblocker; that would explain Nic pushing the kunk lynch based on nothing but WIFOM. It would also explain why they kept Kunk alive all this time...
Nicodemus wrote: How is stating blatant truths scummy? Why would scum not kill the doctor, other than the fact that the doctor is scum himself?
Because they had him effectively neutered with a roleblocker and wanted to get him lynched on WIFOM...?
Nicodemus wrote: Unfortunately, you're a strong town read of mine, so I can't really attack you for this logic, but it's still troubling.
I don't like this. You shouldn't hold a player in your mind to be confirmed town when they're not, ever.
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-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
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Post Post #640 (ISO) » Thu May 13, 2010 11:16 am

Post by Slaxx »

One of you is playing me xD
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Post Post #641 (ISO) » Thu May 13, 2010 11:17 am

Post by CryMeARiver »

Slaxx wrote:By the way, CMAR is pretty much using flavor as an excuse for scumhunting I believe. You can analyze flavor all you want but I would prefer you look at behavioral patterns instead.
When I get the answers, I will do what you say to be scumhunting. But for now, I'm doing it my way.
Slaxx wrote:There are other things that can be commented on CMAR.
Such as the sudden absence of Steth and Kunk? Or were you talking about something else?
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Post Post #642 (ISO) » Thu May 13, 2010 11:19 am

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Who is scum and why, CMAR? Same to steph.
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Post Post #643 (ISO) » Thu May 13, 2010 11:23 am

Post by Slaxx »

CMAR, you can scumhunt without flavor. Everyone else here is pushing discussion forward in some way...Erm, well Nic and Nacho are anyway. My message to you: stop using flavor as a cop out.


A question to the town: Is there anyway in anyone's opinions that the CMAR/Steph thing could be some sort of mindscrew bussing attempt?
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Post Post #644 (ISO) » Thu May 13, 2010 11:23 am

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Slaxx wrote:Who is scum and why, CMAR? Same to steph.
Right now I'm thinking Steph and Kunk. But I would like them to answer my questions before I explain why. By the way, I forgot to compliment you on your clever breadcrumbs ;)
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Post Post #645 (ISO) » Thu May 13, 2010 11:32 am

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I try. Okay, so here is where I hammer on everyone and be a dick because nothing seems to make sense to me. Apologizing in advance.

Nacho, I thought you wanted a no lynch at the start of the day? What changed your mind?

Nacho, last game where I was scum and you were town, you were extremely reluctant to believe almost any PR claim. I know mine was bad (lol) but even Peanut's (which was fairly believable I thought, maybe it was from my perspective) you were reluctant to believe. How come you seemed to accept my cop claim so quickly? In addition, kunk's doc claim seemed to please you as well.

Nicodemus, who is kunk's partner if he isnt really the doctor? Why is nacho such a strong town read for you?

Kunk, you were pretty close to a lynch day 1. Explain why you did not claim doctor then, please.

Stephoscope, who is scum and why? Also, answer the flavor question so CMAR can scumhunt and stop using it as an excuse to not scumhunt. Also, it's pretty hypocritical what you are doing with CMAR. He gave more information and flavor than you in his role claim yet you say its too much like the town one, when you give no flavor at all for yours. Why hold off on the flavor? Do you need time to make it up? This makes no sense to me. Explain. Soon. Now, even.

CMAR, I would like for you to answer my questions before they give flavor, or at least when you start building a case on them give two separate posts: one as to your suspicions before their flavor claims and one for after. That way I can trace your thought process.
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Post Post #646 (ISO) » Thu May 13, 2010 11:44 am

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Slaxx wrote:I try. Okay, so here is where I hammer on everyone and be a dick because nothing seems to make sense to me. Apologizing in advance.

Nacho, I thought you wanted a no lynch at the start of the day? What changed your mind?

Nacho, last game where I was scum and you were town, you were extremely reluctant to believe almost any PR claim. I know mine was bad (lol) but even Peanut's (which was fairly believable I thought, maybe it was from my perspective) you were reluctant to believe. How come you seemed to accept my cop claim so quickly? In addition, kunk's doc claim seemed to please you as well.

Nicodemus, who is kunk's partner if he isnt really the doctor? Why is nacho such a strong town read for you?

Kunk, you were pretty close to a lynch day 1. Explain why you did not claim doctor then, please.

Stephoscope, who is scum and why? Also, answer the flavor question so CMAR can scumhunt and stop using it as an excuse to not scumhunt. Also, it's pretty hypocritical what you are doing with CMAR. He gave more information and flavor than you in his role claim yet you say its too much like the town one, when you give no flavor at all for yours. Why hold off on the flavor? Do you need time to make it up? This makes no sense to me. Explain. Soon. Now, even.

CMAR, I would like for you to answer my questions before they give flavor, or at least when you start building a case on them give two separate posts: one as to your suspicions before their flavor claims and one for after. That way I can trace your thought process.
It's really just process of elimination with a little bit of scumhunting. Let's go thru the players:
CMAR - I know this guy is clear for sure
Slaxx - His breadcrumbs make me think that he is definitely cop (or smart scum in which case he deserves to win)
Nacho - Very protown all game - still could be scum, but doubtful
Nico - Hasn't acted protown but based off two things which you will hate, I think he's town. His meta for the game makes sense. In every one of his games as town, he acts this way (unless he's a PR in which he's generally more helpful.) Also, the flavor he provided with his role. It's not something you can just google and it will pop up right away, I tried. But it's definitely true that Frameworks set records in 2002. Unless they got flavor names and descriptions with their fake roles, I don't think he's scum. There is one thing though. They have been the best DCI team of the decade, the Cavaliers. Therefore it
is
a bit odd that they are only a vanilla townie. Small chance of scum.
Steth - Has tunneled me with pretty much no reasoning for the past 2 days. Has not provided flavor with his role claim. Has provided a fairly easy role claim. Has suddenly gone absent. Has not contributed much to the town as a whole. Large chance of scum.
Kunk - A thing I find odd is that on D1 under enormous pressure, he did not claim doc - something any real town doctor would have done. Why would you risk being lynched as a town PR like he did? You wouldn't. Also, why hasn't he died after claiming doctor on D1? I also should look into his flavor a bit more, but I have yet to do this. Either way, in my opinion, large chance of scum.
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Post Post #647 (ISO) » Thu May 13, 2010 11:46 am

Post by Nachomamma8 »

Slaxx wrote: Nacho, I thought you wanted a no lynch at the start of the day? What changed your mind?
You, dear fellow. You've been playing fairly pro-town thus far, and now that you're a powerrole, you're not exactly someone I want the scum to be able to kill and get off scot-free for it.
Slaxx wrote: Nacho, last game where I was scum and you were town, you were extremely reluctant to believe almost any PR claim. I know mine was bad (lol) but even Peanut's (which was fairly believable I thought, maybe it was from my perspective) you were reluctant to believe. How come you seemed to accept my cop claim so quickly? In addition, kunk's doc claim seemed to please you as well.
Let's see... I didn't believe Raider's vig claim because there was one person who got killed N1, and it happened to be almost everyone's top town read. Didn't believe Peanut's because he was seeming pretty scummy to me at that time, and I had never seen a Paranoid Gun Owner before, but I had seen scum fakeclaim it. I believed your copclaim because of two reasons. 1) You had a really copish reaction to the miller claim, and 2) There's a miller, and a miller without a cop is a bit bastardish. I'm believe kunk only because doctor is such a common role; he claimed fairly early, and he wasn't counterclaimed yet. That doesn't mean I believe him just yet, but it means that it lends him enough cred for me to lynch someone else today.

@CMAR, yes or no question. Do you see a pattern in how the flavor is written?
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Post Post #648 (ISO) » Thu May 13, 2010 11:49 am

Post by CryMeARiver »

Nachomamma8 wrote:
Slaxx wrote: Nacho, I thought you wanted a no lynch at the start of the day? What changed your mind?
You, dear fellow. You've been playing fairly pro-town thus far, and now that you're a powerrole, you're not exactly someone I want the scum to be able to kill and get off scot-free for it.
Slaxx wrote: Nacho, last game where I was scum and you were town, you were extremely reluctant to believe almost any PR claim. I know mine was bad (lol) but even Peanut's (which was fairly believable I thought, maybe it was from my perspective) you were reluctant to believe. How come you seemed to accept my cop claim so quickly? In addition, kunk's doc claim seemed to please you as well.
Let's see... I didn't believe Raider's vig claim because there was one person who got killed N1, and it happened to be almost everyone's top town read. Didn't believe Peanut's because he was seeming pretty scummy to me at that time, and I had never seen a Paranoid Gun Owner before, but I had seen scum fakeclaim it. I believed your copclaim because of two reasons. 1) You had a really copish reaction to the miller claim, and 2) There's a miller, and a miller without a cop is a bit bastardish. I'm believe kunk only because doctor is such a common role; he claimed fairly early, and he wasn't counterclaimed yet. That doesn't mean I believe him just yet, but it means that it lends him enough cred for me to lynch someone else today.

@CMAR, yes or no question. Do you see a pattern in how the flavor is written?
I'm not really sure what you mean by "pattern", but do I find it helpful in finding scum? Yes, yes I do.
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Post Post #649 (ISO) » Thu May 13, 2010 11:51 am

Post by Slaxx »

Okay hold up for a moment. Don't say anything else about flavor. I will post my full flavor (paraphrased of course) after kunk posts his. Nothing else about flavor please.

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