Square Enix Mafia I: Diabolus Erus (GAME OVER)

[Glork]

This game needs a shot in the arm. Maybe I'm just getting impatient.

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Vote Count:

Nothing.

Not Voting:

Antifinity
bill1148
Chronopie
Devotress
dramonic
DTMaster
FC Groningen
Glork
JPSalazar
KDub
MehPlusRawr
PranaDevil
thatguy00
wolframnhart

Lynch:

8 votes.

Deadline:

June 1st - 3:00 PM EST

[JPSalazar]

This game needs a shot in the arm. Maybe I'm just getting impatient.

What do you suggest we do with the doom counter? Just wondering.

[Glork]

FoS like we would normally vote, until someone gets eight FoSes, then lynch that person in rapid succession... otherwise treat the day as regular.

[Antifinity]

I think if we go to night, the Doom victim will probably be spared. It might even explain why Doom was only available N2. Between elements and that mysterious extra vote, we may have been able to actually save someone that day too. Also, all other status effects seem to wear off over night, this may be because we stay in an 'Inn' but I'd suspect ending battle might be involved too,

My prime suspects are Chronopie and Prana. My word doc with reason was on my comp. But I'll come up with a substitue soon. My memory is that Chrono did scummy stuff recently and Prana has just been acting really suspicious all game. I also have a strange scum feeling about Glork, but that is purely a gut-reaction, due to a bad experience last game; so I have no intention of acting on it without evidence.

Umm, what would the point of a pro-town roleblocker be? The only Mafia roles I know are Godfather (pointless) Roleblocker (cancel each other out?) and maybe Role Investiagtor(Rare). Further Since a pro-town roleblocker doesn't know who is town and who is scum, they are a neutral role at Best, since they are more likely to lock out a pro-town role, since those are far more common and of a type that can be blocked ( unlike Godfather or Goon)

I'm legitimately curious to hear what possible use you could have for a pro-town roleblocker, keeping in mind that unlike a mafia/SK roleblocker, they don't even know who is on their side.

[Antifinity]

Until I get a decent answer to the 'pro-town' roleblocker question.
FoS PranaDevil.
But I still would lynch Chrono if the oppertunity came up.

[PranaDevil]

Anti... you only know of those few scum aligned roles? Seriously?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... town_roles

Check out that on the wiki, and tell me a pro-town roleblocker wouldn't be useful just based on that alone.

Now consider that we, potentially, have scum passing out Blind, Doom, Night Kills... and tell me how a town roleblocker wouldn't be beneficial in stopping one of those.

A town roleblocker is useful, and in this game wouldn't surprise me at all with the amount of stuff we seem to have flying around.

[Kise]

Looks like I'm not going to Jersey.... ah well.

[bill1148]

@ Glork

Regarding your speculation that "Drown" is a Vig ability, I doubt it. If that were the case, that means the same faction got in 2 kills during the first Night Phase. Never heard of or seen that before.

Also, I am more inclined to believe that this "musical notes" (who is likely a Negator)person is pro-town. There was no "Doom" Day 1. It highly possible that that player was negated Day 1 and just hasn't spoken up about it, for obvious reasons (since no one claims that they were negated Day 1).

Yeah, I realize there exists the possibility that one Mafia hit the second Mafia. But in my experience, the possiblity of a town player having a negation ability exceeds the chance of there being Two Mafia factions. And yes, I am also aware that the negator could be a SK, but I've never seen a SK with any other ability than "could kill a player of choosing every Night Phase."

Also, I would like some more clarification on the Thief ability. If it's the same as a flavor Cop, that means that the Cop's results are just simply characteristics, correct (meaning that the Thief gets a certain result if he checked a Summon, a certain result if he checked a Mage, etc)? If I am assuming this correctly, how accurate are Flavor Cops/Thiefs?

[bill1148]

Also, there is a way that Devo (whom I believe to be pro-town as well) can still theoretically be killed by Doom, even if we are all using FOS'.

[bill1148]

@Kise

I could have sworn you were referring to Atlanta City, Georgia (not Jersey). I'll bet you're a full-time gambler.

[Antifinity]

I didn't realize there were so many scum abilities. I can now at least understand the purpose of a pro-town role blocker. The idea that the person with Doom got blocked the first night makes a lot of sense. Though that seems like an awfully lucky guess on the part of the canceller, so I think it is still possible that Doom only becomes useable once it is survivable.

[Glork]

@ Glork

Regarding your speculation that "Drown" is a Vig ability, I doubt it. If that were the case, that means the same faction got in 2 kills during the first Night Phase. Never heard of or seen that before.

Not following you.


N1: "Electrocute" team electrocutes Reck, "Death" team turns ABR into nothingness.
N2: "Electrocute" team electrocutes Nautilus, "Death" team dooms Starbuck
N3: "Electrocute" team electrocutes inHim, "Death" team dooms Devo, "Drowning Vig" vigges BV.

How is that not plausible? Doom and reduction to nothingness sound like autokill abiltiies which have similar enough flavor to possibly be linked. That gives them a kill N1, N2, and N3. Drowning is the odd kill out, flavor-wise, and it was on BV, who I had just mandated needed to die because he was very clearly scum.

Re: Thieves in this particular game - We don't know how their results would be oriented, because neither Thief claimed anything before they died. Both ABR's and inHim's knowledge of the role went with them to the graveyard. All I know is that based on inHim's immediate and unrelenting suspicion of Prana, it is reasonable to believe that he got a guilty result on Prana.
Combine that with Prana's scummerrific play, and he's a great lynch candidate. As I've stated many times before, I would gladly lynch KDub as an alternate. By the end of the day, I may even post a case on why he's scummy.

[Glork]

In fact, I think it's downright STPUID (if not scummy) to suggest that the Doomer got blocked N1. Bill and Antifinity are suggesting that there are

THREE SEPARATE KILLING FACTIONS WHICH WOULD KILL N0

which -- while not entirely unheard of -- would require unbelievable balancing power on the town's side. I don't buy it for a second.

If I were a betting man, I'd put up 10,000 gil on Nothingness/Doom coming from different members of the same scumgroup.

[bill1148]

In response to that Glork, I'd like to know why you think Doom was not used N1.

[bill1148]

^To add to that, you'd think that using "Doom" N1 is a must (since choosing not to use it is just dumb). It is early in the game, and the chances of the person Doomed being killed is guaranteed.

[Glork]

In response to that Glork, I'd like to know why you think Doom was not used N1.

I just think the scums used different people to kill between N1 and N2. It seems far more likely than having Mafia/Mafia/SK (presumably). Flavor fits -- Reduced to Nothingness is probably from the spell "Kill" or "Death" (however you want to name it). The notion of BV getting vigged fits. Perhaps the "Death" group wasn't worried about their kill getting blocked or protected. Supposing one Town Roleblocker and one Town Doctor, there is still an astronomically small chance that the kill will be prevented.

Doom, on the other hand, will work approximately once. It was definitely used N2, and we almost immediately figured out a workaround so that it will (hopefully) no longer be useful as a kill method. Personally, I think that the scums are stupid for even attempting to do it again. If our reasoning that Doom wears off at day's end is correct, then Doom will likely not be used for the rest of the game.

[Glork]

The only benefit I see to Doom is that it probably can't be protected against. Unlike a straight up "kill," curative magic doesn't do anything to Doom. But it's still a one-trick pony, and one that I certainly wouldn't use N1.

[bill1148]

I just think the scums used different people to kill between N1 and N2. It seems far more likely than having Mafia/Mafia/SK (presumably).

You misunderstand. I am proposing that there are 2 kills coming from the same faction. 1 kill coming from a 3rd.

That said, obviously in that scenario, it means that it is highly unlikely that there exists 2 Mafia factions (since 1 Mafia faction would be presumably overpowered with the ability to kill twice and the other Mafia faction can only kill once). As such, I am proposing that the setup is Mafia + SK. I am also going to go ahead and reason that the SK killed bv on your advice. Given that, at this point, consequtive Town members were killed with no mafia dead, I am assuming that the SK went ahead and killed bv on your advice, so as to "even the odds" with Town and Mafia (so that the Mafia doesn't win before the SK does)

Then again, this is just me proposing a possiblity. I agree fullheartedly with you that there still exists the possibility of Mafia + Mafia + Vig or Mafia + SK + Vig.

Doom, on the other hand, will work approximately once. It was definitely used N2, and we almost immediately figured out a workaround so that it will (hopefully) no longer be useful as a kill method.

Except it was guaranteed to work D1 and D2 if used. The minimum required votes to kill someone D1 was, what, 12? The minimum required votes to kill someone D2 was 10. In both situations, it would not have mattered whether we just FOS' or not. The player with Doom would die regardless if we intended to lynch anyone.

[Glork]

Bill, please explain to me where you think each of the kills from each night came from.

[Glork]

Except it was guaranteed to work D1 and D2 if used. The minimum required votes to kill someone D1 was, what, 12? The minimum required votes to kill someone D2 was 10. In both situations, it would not have mattered whether we just FOS' or not. The player with Doom would die regardless if we intended to lynch anyone.

It is also guaranteed to work in LyLo, and on the day the Doomer is to be lynched, as they can presumably spin down the counter themselves.

[Glork]

Except it was guaranteed to work D1 and D2 if used. The minimum required votes to kill someone D1 was, what, 12? The minimum required votes to kill someone D2 was 10. In both situations, it would not have mattered whether we just FOS' or not. The player with Doom would die regardless if we intended to lynch anyone.

It is also guaranteed to work in LyLo, and on the day the Doomer is to be lynched, as they can presumably spin down the counter themselves.

EBWOP: Of course, all of this discussion is moot if Devo dies at end of day anyway.

[PranaDevil]

Much as I hate to say it... Glork makes a pretty good point with all of that.

Also, I'm not liking the people who are saying Doom was likely only useable once it became preventable. There's nothing to substantiate that, and just makes it sound like they're trying to keep any finger pointing away from them (like Anti).

[bill1148]

Bill, please explain to me where you think each of the kills from each night came from.

Very well.

2. xRECKONERx - Biggs (Mason) - Electrocuted Night 1
5. Albert B. Rampage - Zidane Tribal (Thief) - Reduced to nothing Night 1
7. Zodiark13 - Captain Rygdea (Vanilla Townie) - Lynched Day 1
14. Nautilius - Wedge (Mason) - Electrocuted Night 2
1. Starbuck DarkLightA - Ridley Silverlake (Vanilla Townie) - Died Day 2
18. Iecerint - Ultros (Mafia Goon) - Lynched Day 2
20. inHimshallibe - Blank (Thief) - Electrocuted Night 3
15. bv310 - Marilith (Mafia Goon) - Drowned Night 3

Foremost, "Electrocuted" and "Reduced to Nothing" are NOT from a Vig.
"Electrocuted" symbolizes that one player is submitting a kill, but since it has been submitted onto the most pro-Town players at this point and was used N1, if a Vig is electrocuting, it symbolizes dumb-assery.

"Doom" (Starbuck & Devo) is HIGHLY UNLIKELY to be a Vig or SK. Because a) it was used on two of the more pro-town players here. and b) if it were an SK ability, it would greatly limit his ability to kill.

"Drowned" can be any of them. However, I'd reason that it is least likely to be a Vig. I find it highly likely that Mafia are given multiple flavors. I would also like to theorize that a SK *might* have multiple flavors. I see no reason for a Town player to have multiple flavors. And finally, perhaps this is just my inexperience with flavors speaking, but isn't the point of flavor kills to begin with to represent that some players are immune to certain flavors?

To sum it up, I theorize this:

Electrocution is a SK
Drowned/Reduced to Nothing + Doom is Mafia

OR

Electrocution + Doom is Mafia
Drowned/Reduced to Nothing is a SK

OR

Electrocution (and maybe Doom) is one Mafia
Drowned/Reduced to Nothing (and maybe Doom)is a second Mafia

OR

Electrocution + is Mafia
Reduced to Nothing is SK (though this comes into question since no one was killed from this flavor N2 or N3)
Drowned is Vig

Personally, I find the first two options more likely (though I don't deny the possibility of the last), though as I've previously stated, that may just be my inexperience with flavors speaking.

[bill1148]

Wait, hold on.

There's also a possiblity that the faction with the "Reduced to Nothing" flavor has the ability to use Doom instead of submitting a Night kill. That could explain why Doom was not used N1 (since that was the same Night Phase as the "Reduced to Nothing" flavor)

Ah...I think I'll stop considering the widespread possibilities. Not enough info.

[Glork]

Now, considering a scumgroup having MULTIPLE kills is so unbelievably far from standard, and would require a VERY powerful town to balance, do you think the dead players (masons, vanilla, THIEVES - not cops) makes sense with your theory?