Mini 961: Insane Asylum II: GAME OVER :O!

[Haylen]

Vote extension

Also, I see dead people.

[farside22]

As I'm rereading a few people I just remembered something.
SC: You were in the last insane game where there were miller claims going on at the start. Why would you wait a few post before claiming miller in this game?

[Tarhalindur]

Vote: Extension

In other news: SocioPath is at L-2 with >10 players alive. SocioPath: claim or die.

(Policy matter - I've been running a meta analysis, and I still can't get a good read on him; his posts towards Glork look SP-town, much of the rest of his play reads SP-scum. I'm leaning towards Socio being town (barring multiscum), mainly based on one read: I agree that Socio's probably not scum with S_B.)

-----

Speaking of Snow_Bunny...

Okay, so I have two big thoughts so far.

1) Snow_Bunny is scum and needs to die. Post 77 is HORRIBLY scummy (doesn't post anything really new, specifically makes a post to say she's not a miller - why would a townie do that? - and her attack on Glork looks craplogic right now). Post 79 is WORSE - and that's not mentioning one other scummy thing I've seen from her that I'd rather not discuss at this time.

Tell, please, what are the other scummy things? I probably haven't given this game the enough time, but what you are pointing out barely makes for a case.

And funny thing, in all games I've played with you (which I believe are only two, including this one ¬_¬), you always have some sort of strange ability that makes you all mysterious to town. Huh.

Let's see about that.

First, there's the specific "I am not a Miller" comment, which I see no reason for a Townie to make (you claim Miller D1 if you are one, you don't say anything if you aren't).

Second, note the following:

Farside and Iec seems town vs town to me as of now. Although, Glork's thing with his millerness and a general quick feeling tell me to be suspicious of him.

The whole confusing thing. That's the problem with Glork's claim. I'm not saying he's scum or anything like that, but it raises my suspicious level on him.

Horribly noncommittal, veiled attack ("I'm suspicious of Glork but don't think he's scum!" That's scum rhetoric right there.)

Now, for more recent material:

Sorry.

Vote: UncertainKitten

Bwecause lynching the mod creates chaos.

And chaos is good for town since when?

I mean, I want to lynch the mod too, but your reasoning just drew my attention.

Looks like a "Oh fudge I'm being a hypocrite and might get called for it must cya now!" post to me...

SB pulls this same act in every game in my experience. She has yet to be scum in a game with me.

This. I usually don't post much, due to my limited time.

The person I feel sliding by is snowbunny. She made 3 post all pointing to CSL and not even discussing the argument going on. I feel they were fluff post that to me is a dead subject.
And CSL is always anti-town.

unvote:
vote: SnowBunny.

*Note to self read Glork and SP meta

I'm sorry, but I've been busy. And, basically, you're going solely after me for lurking? That's lazy scumhunting last time I checked.

k, reread/skimmed the game

I'm another miller, btw.

I'm not gonna let my vote stay on our awesome goddess, nothing good could come from that.


snow_bunny is scummy,

unvote, vote: snow_bunny

I think her play could be summed up by

"vote the mod. Glork = miller = suspicious, but not too suspicious, just suspicious in the sense that I don't think you're scum, but think you might possibly be scum maybe, perhaps. I'm not a miller btw. CSL's vote on UK makes me question his motives. Oh wait, I was voting the mod as well. I meant to say that I was interested in his motives, but don't suspect him."

Snow_bunny, could you clarify your positions on glork and myself/csl? They are awfully vague as they stand, and that is worrisome.

glork is likely town

On CLS I wanted to hear the answer for my questions. It drew my attention (some suspicious, but not enough). On Glork I must admit that I need to read him again, as in this quick read I can't say much.

However, there's something I want to say about another player: Tar. It may be me, but I see Tar as a good player, however, his attacks on me doesn't show that. Basically just attacking me for lurking? Even a newbie can do that. Smells like fakehunting. And thus, I have a really bad feeling about him

Unvote, vote: Tarhalindur

Horrible, horrible misrepresentation of the cases against you all around.

Farside wasn't attacking you for lurking AFAICT, she was attacking you for ACTIVE lurking aka IIoA (apologies to Glork) - multiple responses to minor comment by another player (CSL) without actually saying anything about the game.

And you call my case on you "just attacking you for lurking"? HOGWASH. The only way in which lurking factors into my case against you AT ALL is because AFAICT you haven't been scumhunting - and even that's a stretch, because the reason your lack of scumhunting is scummy is because you aren't doing so even when you ARE posting. The main point of my original case on you was that your stance on Glork is pure waffling and veiled attacks - CLASSIC scum behavior, especially when you don't want to provoke a response from a strong townie. How the hell did you manage to get "attacking me for lurking" from THAT? (The obvious answer is "because I'm strawmanning the case against me", which would be ANOTHER lynch-me-now sign from you.)

First we hear a SocioPath claim, then (unless Socio is clearly falseclaiming) we put S_B in the noose.

[UncertainKitten]

The Eighth "Hallucination" Vote Count

"A hallucination, in the broadest sense, is a perception in the absence of a stimulus. In a stricter sense, hallucinations are defined as perceptions in a conscious and awake state in the absence of external stimuli which have qualities of real perception, in that they are vivid, substantial, and located in external objective space."

Mod Note: Extension is at being granted -1.

0. UncertainKitten (0)
1. magnus_orion (0)
2. StrangerCoug (2): SocioPath, Iecerint
3. SocioPath (5): StrangerCoug, bv310, Leech, Haylen, Glork
4. farside22 (0)
5. Glork (0)
6. Leech (0)
7. Tarhalindur (2): Slicey, Snow_Bunny
8. bv310 (0)
9. Haylen (0)
10. Iecerint (0)
11. Slicey (0)
12. Snow_Bunny (3): Tarhalindur, farside22, magnus_orion

Special:

Extension:

farside22, Iecerint, SocioPath, Glork, Haylen, Tarhalindur

Not Voting (0)

Sociopath is at L-2

Prod Clock (New): Off
Players still needing to respond to prod:No one \o/

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is in 3 days at 3:00 PM EST, Monday, May 17th, 2010

[Haylen]

PS.

Unvote

Didn't notice I was voting.

[Iecerint]

As I'm rereading a few people I just remembered something.
SC: You were in the last insane game where there were miller claims going on at the start. Why would you wait a few post before claiming miller in this game?

!

[magnus_orion]

SCSK, please revote when you unvote thanks. <3

hey iecerint, are you accusing strangercoug of being an SK here, way back when, and if so, why do you think he's a serial killer?

[Iecerint]

^ Nah, it's an allusion to a game we played together where I was convinced he was SK starting D2. Gives me warm feelings to use it. He was actually normal scum IIRC.

[magnus_orion]

double post

Unvote, Vote: SocioPath

100% support.

Unvote, Vote: Sociopath

I can see the logic behind this wagon more so than the last one.

these posts come immediately after each other.
They also have alot in common.
For one thing, the person they unvote is, in both cases strangercoug.
For another, they both vote the same person, sociopath,
for a third, the person they are agreeing with in their posts is their previous suspect, strangercoug. Strangercoug voted sociopath in the post immediately prior to glork's post.

This means that they both did a 180 on strangercoug, from suspecting him, to agreeing with him and voting along with him.

Could both glork and bv310 explain this?

Also... could bv310 explain what his statement means? I presume the "last one" refers to your vote on strangercoug. Could you affirm this? Could you also explain the "logic" behind both wagons you refer to?

[farside22]

As I'm rereading a few people I just remembered something.
SC: You were in the last insane game where there were miller claims going on at the start. Why would you wait a few post before claiming miller in this game?

!

You should read the last game of insane that UK modded. There was some arguments made in the beginning about those who claimed miller late after others did.

[Iecerint]

MO is my boyfriend. <3

Haylen, come and be my girlfriend, please. <3

[Haylen]

Heh, sure, why not.

Reading btw. Don't expect much from me over the weekend, I'm usually v/la...i hate work...

[Iecerint]

I read through page 8 of the old game. Thoughts:

1. Scum (correctly in general for that case and in that case) indicated that the 3rd Miller claimer is less likely to be scum because the first 2 had been framed as claim and counterclaim. This is a little different from our situation, though, because multiple Millers no longer appeared out of the ordinary.

2. OMG tajo is a baby <3

3. UK's flavor made me laugh. XD

[Glork]

Could both glork and bv310 explain this?

SP was being senselessly disruptive and trying as hard as possible to forge a link between Glork and StrangerCoug. Coug's unvote on me was reasonable, and SP immediately jumped into "YOU GUYS ARE DISTANCING SCUMBUDDIES" mode.

Anyway, I had been voting for SC for answering farside's question on her behalf, which is okay for an initial nonserious vote, but overall a pretty weak reason to be voting somebody. Socio's play was (and is) far more alarming than Coug's. Yes, I'm aware that Coug and I were reciprocal-voting, then I decided to go after the same person instead. This is like a six year old scumtell, and I'm going to once again be egomaniacal for a moment and say I would be above committing such an elementary mistake if I were scum.

I have considered the possibility that Socio is busing Coug to set up a D2 Glorklynch, but Socio's a better lynch than Coug regardless. Socio's play is demonstrably scummier, and less beneficial to the rest of the town if he does happen to be protown. Socio's behavior towards Coug suggests potential distancing, but Coug's attitude towards Socio doesn't fit. That's why I initially had Coug listed as an "alternate" scum to SP/SB, then changed my mind when I thought about it a little more.


Regardless, there is definitely one scum in the vocal group, definitely one scum amongst the chronic lurkers, and the third (and possibly fourth) could fall into either category at this point.

[farside22]

I keep getting interupttion at work. I'm going to put my notes on those I have gone over so far. Hopefully before I leave work today I can finish

magnus_orion/CSL - CSL had 2 post with nothing to offer. Look at the search engine for him as well and all he was really doing was his modding duties.
Magnus: Not sure about the delay of miller claim. I do admit his reasoning on bunny is good. Would like to hear more on his own views of SP/SC debate.
Leaning neutral till I see more

Glork - Can't say I'm overjoyed with Glorks comments at the start of the day. Or his weak miller claim. I don't understand why SC's comment caused you to vote him here Have you seen scum act as SC did considering your comment was made for reaction?
Why would you say you agree with Kai in one post but the very next post vote for SB?
Then on your list you have kai as possible scum. I'm very confused at this point. Reading over the 2 games of glorks as scum and town. I'm leaning town this game based on the meta. (more serious as scum. More silly as town. More thouht out as town. less posting when scum)
meta aside I'm on the fence because he's so back and forth with Kai and SP.


bv310 - add little or nothing to the game. Voted for SP, aka following a bw. Just looked on the search engine and I see him posting elsewhere. Aka actively lurking this game. Reading as scum


Iecerint - in hindsight looking over iec I can see we had a breakdown in communication. I don't understand his vote on SC. After the arguement between iec and myself i read him as just floating by without giving a good reason for his vote.
Admittedly reading some games with Iec he typically reads scummy to me. Both games on going so can't say more then that.
This game is no exception. But again I take issue when I don't see people really pushing their case or giving a good cause on why X is scum.

Tarhalindur - Although he hasn't posted much. He says he's been busy. He has good logical post. Well thought out views. I read him as town.

[magnus_orion]

k hi, so I charted this game in an attempt to get a better grasp of it.
My shoddy image as a result of using paint to make it an image file is stored below. However crappy it may look, it serves it's purposes. It goes up to farside's 264. The key was slightly distorted, but it should be easy to figure out, just ask if you have any problems.
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/940/insaneasylum.jpg

While making this, I had to reread the game in detail. I am now opposed to a sociopath lynch. I think his positions are being misunderstood through poor presentation, and by skimming he looks fairly scummy, but that seems to stem from a misunderstanding of his positions. I think both he and glork are town now, but actually am more hesitant on glork, the possibility that UK provided safeclaims makes me uneasy. I could interpret the interaction glork as attempting to provoke sociopath. For example, in the above post, glork claims that

SP was being senselessly disruptive and trying as hard as possible to forge a link between Glork and StrangerCoug. Coug's unvote on me was reasonable, and SP immediately jumped into "YOU GUYS ARE DISTANCING SCUMBUDDIES" mode.

as far as I can tell, however, sociopath's posts where he was being "senselessly disruptive and trying as hard as possible to form a link between Glork and Strangercoug" prior to glork's vote were but 4 in number. Plus they were short. They may have been aggressive, but certainly not "senselessly disruptive". Also, strangercoug's unvote was NOT reasonable. Unless Glork IS claiming to have role information, then just because that it is possible that glork has a pro-town role with information does not make that MORE LIKELY than him being scum. Strangercoug's unvote DOES feel like he just let go without a fight, putting into question whether his suspicions were real in the first place. Also, Glork's dismissal of this, and claim that strangercoug was being perfectly reasonable is worrisome.

I'm not really comfortable with iecerint, and farside gets pro-town points for the post above me and the concern with the sc vote.
Incerint: Why strangercoug?

strangercoug bothers me somewhat though, the vast majority of his interactions limit his links to glork and sociopath, but he doesn't seem to have commented on either tar or farside, both active people in the game. (see the chart)

Strangercoug, could you make your positions on the players in this game clear?

[SocioPath]

Coug's unvote on me was reasonable, and SP immediately jumped into "YOU GUYS ARE DISTANCING SCUMBUDDIES" mode.

SC's unvote and the reasons for such were SO FAKE, and completely disregarded the role that most often has inside knowledge of town...that being scum.
SC had a weak attack on Glork, either to distance or to try to get something to stick.
He couldn't keep it up, and therefore dropped the attacks, and slinked into a corner to let the more vocals take over.
"OOPS I GUESS YOU COULD HAVE INSIDE KNOWLEDGE OF TOWN, MY BAD. CASE DISMISSED"

This quote from early on from Glork also sticks out:

I think you know I'm an enormous threat to scums in any game I play, so your behavior towards me is largely premeditated.

This could very easily apply to anyone that ever attack Glork. (cuz he so pro n stuf)
But most likely that of SCSK/SCSCUM.
He saw he couldn't take flak from Glork without buckling.

Socio's play was (and is) far more alarming than Coug's.

Alarming perhaps because it is a style that you don't seem to be used to.

Socio's play is demonstrably scummier, and less beneficial to the rest of the town if he does happen to be protown.

Ew.
:badposting:

[Glork]

Coug's unvote on me was reasonable, and SP immediately jumped into "YOU GUYS ARE DISTANCING SCUMBUDDIES" mode.

SC's unvote and the reasons for such were SO FAKE, and completely disregarded the role that most often has inside knowledge of town...that being scum.
SC had a weak attack on Glork, either to distance or to try to get something to stick.
He couldn't keep it up, and therefore dropped the attacks, and slinked into a corner to let the more vocals take over.
"OOPS I GUESS YOU COULD HAVE INSIDE KNOWLEDGE OF TOWN, MY BAD. CASE DISMISSED"

The entire basis of Coug's argument was that scums WERE the only people who could have inside knowledge on who was town, and that me saying "Iece is town" so definitively was because I am scum with the knowledge that Iece is town. I pointed out that the foundation of his argument was based on an inherently flawed ("There are a number of protown roles which can have information on other protown players"), so he dropped the subject.

I just feel like, if Coug and I were to hypothetically distance at the start of a game, we'd be intelligent enough not to do it in a way that's so terrible and mutually binding. I also feel like you should know this, but your stubbornness is only outdone by my own.

[SocioPath]

but your stubbornness is only outdone by my own.

Truer words have yet to be spoken this game.

[magnus_orion]

@glork: Why are you not concerned about him dropping the subject? Doesn't it seem rational to suspect someone if they have inside information? The role that most often has other's alignment information on day 1 is scum

[StrangerCoug]

Vote: Deadline extension

Actually Coug, I'd rather not say at this time. There are multiple interactions I want to see play out.

If it's beneficial to you, let them. You just happened to draw my attention.

As I'm rereading a few people I just remembered something.
SC: You were in the last insane game where there were miller claims going on at the start. Why would you wait a few post before claiming miller in this game?

I simply am not in the habit of claiming roles right off the bat, simply because it's not beneficial for most of them. It only came to immediate mind when the other miller claims were coming in.

double post

Unvote, Vote: SocioPath

100% support.

Unvote, Vote: Sociopath

I can see the logic behind this wagon more so than the last one.

these posts come immediately after each other.
They also have alot in common.
For one thing, the person they unvote is, in both cases strangercoug.
For another, they both vote the same person, sociopath,
for a third, the person they are agreeing with in their posts is their previous suspect, strangercoug. Strangercoug voted sociopath in the post immediately prior to glork's post.

This means that they both did a 180 on strangercoug, from suspecting him, to agreeing with him and voting along with him.

Could both glork and bv310 explain this?

I did a 180 on Glork myself (also from suspecting to voting alongside him), so why aren't you questioning me?

strangercoug bothers me somewhat though, the vast majority of his interactions limit his links to glork and sociopath, but he doesn't seem to have commented on either tar or farside, both active people in the game. (see the chart)

Strangercoug, could you make your positions on the players in this game clear?

I'm leaning town on the two people you mention here. As for scum other than SocioPath, I'd probably draw a couple lurker's names out of a hat (I know, I don't like LALurkers, but I perceive an activity disparity between the players that's making the game drag). I have a neutral or no read on everybody else we don't mention right now.

[UncertainKitten]

Extension:

farside22, Iecerint, SocioPath, Glork, Haylen, Tarhalindur, StrangerCoug


DEADLINE EXTENSION HAS BEEN HAMMERED. HE WAS TOWN. N1 *is shot*

So, yeah, you have another week. Now day one ends on May 24th, 2010, at whatever time I said earlier

[magnus_orion]

I did a 180 on Glork myself (also from suspecting to voting alongside him), so why aren't you questioning me?

eh? did I miss that, or are you referring to the same event? Cause there is a different between him voting after you voted, and you voting before he did.

I would like you to respond to my comments about why your unvote was not rational, though

[StrangerCoug]

I did a 180 on Glork myself (also from suspecting to voting alongside him), so why aren't you questioning me?

eh? did I miss that, or are you referring to the same event? Cause there is a different between him voting after you voted, and you voting before he did.

My 180 is a major part of the Glork/StrangerCoug/SocioPath argument.

I would like you to respond to my comments about why your unvote was not rational, though

I think you're referring to #269, so I'll respond based on this thinking; if you're not, then you need to be more specific.

As Glork said, my vote on him is inherently flawed as he could be any number of information roles instead of scum. The two towniest things to do upon realizing this were to come up with a better case on Glork or unvote him; I did the latter.

[magnus_orion]

double post
snow_bunny, what is your opinion on incerint?