Newbie 958 ~Game over!

[LordChronos]

/confirm

[LordChronos]

Vote: brianj

Given that Incog has won all of his 8 games as scum, doesn't that mean he is a good player. He has a 7/9 chance to be town, so why do you want to get rid of a good player who is likely to be town?

[LordChronos]

@Incog

I think scum is more likely to use a RNG. It absolves them of the responsibility of justifying their initial vote if, for example, they bandwagon someone. Of course, it does depend on the person. If they do all of the time, and can provide game links to show this, I would say it is a null tell. I hate RNG votes though because they don't lead to any discussion beyond whether RNG usage is a scumtell.

@brianj

No question for me? I feel left out.

[LordChronos]

@Coach Travis

Why is that you say RQS > RVS, but started off the game by random voting and have not asked anyone any questions?

@remouk

We call it Random Voting Stage, but the point of it isn't just to vote randomly. The point is to generate information. RNG voting doesn't really do that. Perhaps a better name would be Uninformed Voting Stage. You don't really have any idea who the scum are, but you are still voting.

[LordChronos]

@Alta

You should get an avatar. It makes it much easier for everyone else to quickly tell whose posts are whose.

[LordChronos]

@Incog

I have played with Zorblag before and he is good at both town and scum. I have no doubt that others of the experienced players on this site are good at being both town and scum.

Actually, I have only ever seen someone dice vote once and as it turned out, he does it all the time and turned out to be an confirmed mason.

@ThatTumbleweed

I don't think there is enough evidence to really go after remouk at this point. It just doesn't seem very weird to me for him to not be sure about anything. If he is Town then he wouldn't have any idea about who is scum and who isn't

remouk (1) - Alta

Hypocritical, much?

[LordChronos]

@Earlder

While that may be true, a single random vote isn't much pressure. I also don't like the fact that you are constantly telling us how not scummy your avatar discussion thing is. I would find it much less suspicious if you just did it, but the continual "I was just having fun, it wasn't scummy", is getting odd.

@Leech

Losing games as town and winning as scum doesn't necessarily mean you are better at deceiving than helping the town. For example, one of my scum wins only happened because one of the townies acted like an idiot. Just because the other townie alive at that point lost doesn't mean he didn't play well; he did.

[LordChronos]

Well, I actually think I'm doing well this game. My appearance may be slightly scummier than I'd like, but it's always good to be somewhat suspicious. The last game I played was my first and I got really into it. The problem, however, was that I was soooo town seeming. Everyone knew I was town and the mafia attempted to kill me night 1 because thay knew I would never be lynched. Luckily, I got doc saved, but this game I don't wanna make the same mistake. I wanna contribute to scum hunting but still be slightly suspicioud so that I don't get NK'd due to being completely town seeming.

@ LordChronos

Fair enough. Consider it dropped.

No. Townies shouldn't care how they appear. Focus on scum hunting. If you try to be scummy, you are only helping scum (if you are town) because you distract the town from the actual scum.

@Incog

Not liking Earlder at all right now. Distracting us with the avatar thing and then badgering about how it isn't scummy to do that and how he was just asking in fun and now this about intentionally being scummy which just seems like he is making excuses for being scummy to try get out of possible lynchings in the future.

So,

Unvote; Vote: Earlder1

. L-2 vote.

[LordChronos]

@Earlder

Fair enough. I read your statement a little more strongly than you worded it.

[LordChronos]

@Incog

The point I was trying to make was that it is hypocritical for Alta to defend remouk against the attacks that were made on him, yet continue to vote him. Also, I notice that Alta is still voting him.

@Alta

What are your thoughts on who the scum are?

[LordChronos]

I have to agree with Incog on the voting without giving reasons. I have seen several town players do that, including Papa Zito and Kishime (if any of you have played with them).

@Incog

I thought Leech and I were SEs. Do we have more than two?

@Leech

Please give us your thoughts on what has been happening. Who is scummiest?

[LordChronos]

@remouk

Do you still find Incognito most suspicious after his reply to your case on him?

@Coach Travis

If Alta and Earlder are the most suspicious players here, why are you voting for me instead of one of them?

[LordChronos]

Really not liking the utter lack of anything at all from Leech and Alta.

Incog, what do you think of ThatTumblweed's play thus far?

[LordChronos]

Totally agree with you about Leech, brian. Making one long post =/= being a townie, especially when that long post is followed by vanishing and not contributing whatsoever.

@Earlder

Why does me not doing anything that makes me seem scummy make me tied for number 2 on your suspect list?

@Coach Travis
I notice that most of your analysis talks about activity. Not scummy things in posts, activity. Is this because you don't think anyone has done scummy things?

[LordChronos]

Sweet!

Hiya Shadow Dancer.

@Earlder

Since Incog and remouk are not everyone, why does brian saying that remouk's case is flawed but he welcomes the increase in activity from remouk mean that brian is trying to appease everyone?

You say that you have a neutral vibe (meaning you don't have a feeling toward town or scum) on later people in the list. Yet that is exactly what you said about me. Why the discrepancy?

[LordChronos]

@SD

Unfortunately, I'm not quite so good as town. And those scum wins are a little deceptive. One was a win like the scum win in Greek Mythology; town should have won but did something incredibly stupid. Another (the game with Leech) was helped along by a lurk-heaven town.

On a more on-topic subject:

@Earlder

I think the issue here is a miscommunication of the definition of "neutral read". I generally use it to describe someone I can't peg as town or scum. That is what you said about me, so I wondered about the inconsistency.

Can you clarify what you mean by a neutral read?

Also, brian wasn't trying to fence-sit and appease both sides. He supported Incog's position with regards to the case remouk made and said he thought more activity from remouk was good. That is in no way fence-sitting.

@Coach Travis

Why are you not comfortable initiating things? Town worries about catching scum, which is not best done by solely reacting and not initiating things. It is the scum who tend to not start things and instead slip on to mislynches.

@Incog

Policy lynches do have their place in a few select circumstances. Not here in newbie games though.

I don't know about SD, but I have found that ICs tend to be harder to read and have a generally townie vibe due to the informational nature of their role. So I am cautious with them. Thus far I don't think you are likely to be scum though.

@SD

Please no lynch all lurkers policy lynches. Replace the lurkers, don't lynch them. Unless they start active lurking and also doing scummy things.

We need to hear more from Leech and remouk or we need to get them replaced.

[LordChronos]

@Incog

There are some situations where you have an incredibly anti-town player that is likely to do things that drastically hurt the town's chances to win and you know this early in the game when I would support a policy lynch.

Welcome smashbro!

[LordChronos]

@CT

Doing things that doesn't benefit the town = anti-town. Anti-town =/= scum. So I can see where SD is coming from here.

However, I do think that Earlder is scummy.

[LordChronos]

Okay, we are starting to run out of time here, especially with everyone vanished.

@brianj

Do you find Shadow Dancer to be the scummiest player?

@remouk

Who do you think should be today's lynch?

Mod: Your vote count says Leech instead of smashbro of the sss

Oops! Clumsy mod is clumsy.

[LordChronos]

Gives no evidence that he believes in the wagon, hmm?

Let's see.

I also don't like the fact that you are constantly telling us how not scummy your avatar discussion thing is. I would find it much less suspicious if you just did it, but the continual "I was just having fun, it wasn't scummy", is getting odd.

Not liking Earlder at all right now. Distracting us with the avatar thing and then badgering about how it isn't scummy to do that and how he was just asking in fun and now this about intentionally being scummy which just seems like he is making excuses for being scummy to try get out of possible lynchings in the future.

I do think that Earlder is scummy.

Yeah, total lack of belief in the wagon.

Since you couldn't tell from my earlier statements as to why I am voting Earlder, here are my reasons.

In the early game he tried to divert conversation to what his avatar is. Then he said that it is good to be scummy as town, which seems like he is trying to get out of pressure for his scummy behavior. Then he accused brian of fencesitting in a situation where brian wasn't.

I'd have to think about who my next choice for lynch would be. Alta was scummy, but SD has improved on him alot. It's hard to analyze your slot, since it has only produced 2 posts that can be called content in any sense.

I haven't produced a case in the sense of listing points against a non-Earlder player, yes. But I have been active and questioned people on things and posted my views on issues. I don't see how this is lack of contribution, especially given some of the other players in this game.

Why choose me for lack of contribution?

By the way, dice voting is something SD does. He did in Greek Mythology too. And his random dice vote was on the same player as his real vote, as I recall.

[LordChronos]

@remouk

I really don't see how confidence is a scumtell. The best town players I have seen and played with have pretty much all been confident. Why do you think him being confident is a scumtell?

@smashbro

That is the first time you have mentioned remouk, could you elaborate on why you find him scummy?

@Incog

I might sometimes, yes.

@CT
I have seen posts like Earlder's last from new town players, yes, but I have also seen them from scum. He really didn't respond to anything said against him or try to fight against his lynch, but just gave up.

[LordChronos]

remouk,

I just ISOed Shadow Dancer s well, and couldn't find a quote of him saying he had a town read on Early. He said he thought Earlder might have just been a newbie, but no explicit statement that he thought Earlder was town. Also, as I recall his case came up some time after he replaced in and in no way was only based off another game. It was also based off what Earlder said about being a little scummy being good and how that made no sense given the rewards Earlder got in his first game for being townie and not scummy.

So, where did you find a statement of a town read on Earl from SD?

@All

If Earlder flips scum, I think remouk could very well be his partner. Attacking SD with a case that is incredibly lame while defending Earlder suggests they could be scum buddies to me.

[LordChronos]

@remouk

That is the point though, many of them aren't legit. Also, I would like to see you answer the question about what you would consider to be a scum tell instead of dodging around the question.

[LordChronos]

@brian

When I said remouk was dodging around the question, I was referring to the question Shadow Dancer asked him about what he thought was a scum tell, since he didn't think Earlder did anything scummy.

He still hasn't answered this question.

You said you felt my criticism of Alta for continuing to vote a player that he felt was town and was defending was artificial. In what way was it artificial? You don't think that that point and the subsequent change of Alta's opinion about remouk were scummy?

@remouk

Are you still thinking Shadow Dancer is scum?

[LordChronos]

I'm really sorry guys, but I don't have time to play for a while.

Mod: Please replace me.