Newbie 958 ~Game over!

[ThatTumblweed]

And by Monday I mean Sunday.

[brianj]

I apologize for my infrequent posting. I have final exam coming up in June 3rd so I cannot contribute as much effort into this game as I would like to. Hopefully I'll follow up with the analysis about rest of the players when I post again >.>

[Incognito]

V/LA until at least Tuesday, sorry.

[Shadow Dancer]

I must admit that this post confuses me. What is your thesis here? Do you thin Earlder is town? Why do you still want to lynch him then? Are you proposing a pilicy lynch? Or do you think he is scum? Do you think deliberately acting scummy is what mafia should do? And if not, why do you think Earlder could be scum?

[Shadow Dancer]

WTF? Half my post is lost in data nirvana?!?!

@Inco: As far as I can remember I never doubted your reasoning against Earlder.

@CT: I must admit that this post confuses me. What is your thesis here? Do you thin Earlder is town? Why do you still want to lynch him then? Are you proposing a pilicy lynch? Or do you think he is scum? Do you think deliberately acting scummy is what mafia should do? And if not, why do you think Earlder could be scum?

@TTW: Looking forward to Sundaymonday.

[Nikanor]

Vote Count 1.14

Earlder1 (2)

- LordChronos, ThatTumblweed

Leech (2)

- Incognito, Shadow Dancer

Shadow Dancer (1)

- brianj

brianj (1)

- Earlder1

Not Voting (3)

- Leech, remouk, Coach Travis

With nine players alive, five votes are required to lynch.

Deadline falls on Saturday June 5 at 17:14 UTC.

smashbro_of_the_SSS replaces Leech!

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

Alrighty, I'm replacing in, but haven't read the thread yet, so I'll come up with a post either tonight or Monday (Sunday I have picnics)

[LordChronos]

@Incog

There are some situations where you have an incredibly anti-town player that is likely to do things that drastically hurt the town's chances to win and you know this early in the game when I would support a policy lynch.

Welcome smashbro!

[Shadow Dancer]

Hi, smash.

[Shadow Dancer]

@LC: LOL. I had that case in my first newbie game. I was against lynching that madman and got lynched instead The pinnacle of irony was that that player got replaced by an even more insane lunatic, have you ever seen vanilla townies fake claim cop and fake claim guilty investigation results on another townie?! Well, he did. Obviously that lost the game for town...

Still... Better to get those players replaced by some one who is at least half on his/her mind.

Besides that, policy vig>policy lynch, if possible.

[Coach Travis]

@Shadow Dancer:No, I don't think he's town, and it wouldn't be a policy lynch. The point is, he's clearly doing stuff that doesn't benefit the town, and sense he does have a bit of experience, I think he'd know better than to do that, so it makes me think he's scum. Because it's either that or he's a bad player, and from what he said about his first game, I don't think that's true.

[Earlder1]

Sorry for my brief absence. I'm going to have LA until about Monday or so. I'll catch up then.

[LordChronos]

@CT

Doing things that doesn't benefit the town = anti-town. Anti-town =/= scum. So I can see where SD is coming from here.

However, I do think that Earlder is scummy.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

awesome, finished reading this through, and I like what I see. I have 1-3 scummy reads of various degrees, but 11:47 at night is not the best time for me creating cases. We have a week left, but it should be plenty of time. That being said, I have at least one picnic tomorrow, so don't count on a post from me. But after that, I promise to post more than Leech.

~~~smashbro

[Shadow Dancer]

I'd also put Earl rather in the scummy corner right now.

However, I absolutely do not get in which corner TC wants to put him. Hence I asked...

Right now I'm about to do some meta reading on Earl (normally I do not like that, because it's just a time sink, but in this case Earl explicitely referenced his behaviour to his prior games).

However: I still do not get TC's stance.

@Shadow Dancer:No, I don't think he's town, and it wouldn't be a policy lynch. The point is, he's clearly doing stuff that doesn't benefit the town, and sense he does have a bit of experience, I think he'd know better than to do that, so it makes me think he's scum. Because it's either that or he's a bad player, and from what he said about his first game, I don't think that's true.

@TC: So - in your opinion -

is

Earl a bad player? And if he is, would you say he is bad scum or bad town?

[Coach Travis]

I already answered that in my last sentence:No, I don't think he is. I think he can be good(as shown by getting NK'd previously), and is trying to come off as neutral, to avoid getting caught at this point, because I think he's scum. I just don't see any other way to explain trying to not act town to avoid being NK'd, because being NK'd is not a bad thing at all.

[Shadow Dancer]

Fair enough. So since you obviously have at least one suspect why don't you vote?

[Coach Travis]

I don't know, I've just always been slow to vote outside of RVS, like I'm afraid it could cause some bandwagon and backfire on me or something. I'm kinda paranoid like that. But yeah, since I am suspicious of him and he's no longer at the stage where voting him causes an L-1, I have no real excuse, so:

Vote:Earlder 1

I think he's probably the most likely day 1 lynch, but I'm not against voting anyone else if it comes down to it.

[Nikanor]

Vote Count 1.15

Earlder1 (3)

- LordChronos, ThatTumblweed, Coach Travis

smashbro_of_the_SSS (2)

- Incognito, Shadow Dancer

Shadow Dancer (1)

- brianj

brianj (1)

- Earlder1

Not Voting (2)

- smashbro_of_the_SSS, remouk

With nine players alive, five votes are required to lynch.

Deadline falls on Saturday June 5 at 17:14 UTC.

Prods are going out on Tuesday, because SOME PEOPLE are American and need extra time to cuddle with their family or whatever for the long weekend.

[LordChronos]

Okay, we are starting to run out of time here, especially with everyone vanished.

@brianj

Do you find Shadow Dancer to be the scummiest player?

@remouk

Who do you think should be today's lynch?

Mod: Your vote count says Leech instead of smashbro of the sss

Oops! Clumsy mod is clumsy.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

Alright, so. I have 2 suspects I want to go over.

Alta/Shadow Dancer

Alta was my first prime suspect, for lack of content. He repeatedly states that he does not know who the scum are, but instead of making an effort to find them, he takes a completely neutral stance, and does little to no scum hunting. After a grand total of 7 posts, he replaces out.

Then, Shadow Dancer comes along. And I was planning on giving Alta my first vote, until the replacement. Shadow Dancer goes farther than Alta (content wise), though there are a few things to point out. I was curious as to why he did the dice roll and probably random voted from it, and then goes to place a real vote on an inactive player. It seems like he may be avoiding getting blood on his hands from a vote.

But,

Lord Chronos

Has anyone else noticed that he seldom produces cases of his own? His posts contain questions for other players, many of which get to the point of saying "hmm...I don't really like this, but before I do anything about it, let's see what everyone else has to say."

Through the game he places one vote, on Earlder1. But it also seems to be sitting still, while he gives no evidence that he believes in the wagon. Lord Chronos, I want an organized post showing why you are voting Earlder, and if you have a second or third suspect, tell us.

vote: Lord Chronos

for lack of own contribution, letting a vote sit without more reference to it, and ... well, that's it but things sound better in threes.

[LordChronos]

Gives no evidence that he believes in the wagon, hmm?

Let's see.

I also don't like the fact that you are constantly telling us how not scummy your avatar discussion thing is. I would find it much less suspicious if you just did it, but the continual "I was just having fun, it wasn't scummy", is getting odd.

Not liking Earlder at all right now. Distracting us with the avatar thing and then badgering about how it isn't scummy to do that and how he was just asking in fun and now this about intentionally being scummy which just seems like he is making excuses for being scummy to try get out of possible lynchings in the future.

I do think that Earlder is scummy.

Yeah, total lack of belief in the wagon.

Since you couldn't tell from my earlier statements as to why I am voting Earlder, here are my reasons.

In the early game he tried to divert conversation to what his avatar is. Then he said that it is good to be scummy as town, which seems like he is trying to get out of pressure for his scummy behavior. Then he accused brian of fencesitting in a situation where brian wasn't.

I'd have to think about who my next choice for lynch would be. Alta was scummy, but SD has improved on him alot. It's hard to analyze your slot, since it has only produced 2 posts that can be called content in any sense.

I haven't produced a case in the sense of listing points against a non-Earlder player, yes. But I have been active and questioned people on things and posted my views on issues. I don't see how this is lack of contribution, especially given some of the other players in this game.

Why choose me for lack of contribution?

By the way, dice voting is something SD does. He did in Greek Mythology too. And his random dice vote was on the same player as his real vote, as I recall.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

Why choose me for lack of contribution?

What stuck out to me was that your posts tend to be only questions to others, not as much analyzing paragraphs as I would have liked.

unvote

, that vote has served its purpose, and I like your answers right now.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

Why choose me for lack of contribution?

What stuck out to me was that your posts tend to be only questions to others, not as much analyzing paragraphs as I would have liked.

This really doesn't answer the question well, but in my experience, the scum tend to be those who use questions to prod others and suggest that they create cases, and afterward the scum would follow up by agreeing with the case if the case is popular, and if not, nothing on their own hands.

[Shadow Dancer]

@smash: If my dice vote is the only thing that startles you, then I can point you to LC's post a while ago: I was that mason.

@LC: We've still got almost a week left, that's hardly running out of time. Almost very one promised some kind of post/analysis for either today or tomorrow. Let's see what that brings us.

I don't know, I've just always been slow to vote outside of RVS, like I'm afraid it could cause some bandwagon and backfire on me or something. I'm kinda paranoid like that. But yeah, since I am suspicious of him and he's no longer at the stage where voting him causes an L-1, I have no real excuse, so:

Vote:Earlder 1

I think he's probably the most likely day 1 lynch,

but I'm not against voting anyone else if it comes down to it.

So you would basically vote any one, reagardless of reasons? I keep receiveng a latent aura of scumminess from your direction.

/FoS TC

However: I think I have found bigger fish to fry - in Earl.

First of: Upon asking myself some of the questions I asked TC, I'd would have answered in plain terms: Yes, of course, Earlder is bad player. I do not know if he is scum or town, but his play so far is definitely horrible.

Now I cannot keep this opinion any more.

And I do not mind his question about the Tuatara since he has a positive meta for it.

But I read his performance in farside's Newbie 919. And it was, to say the least, illuminating.

To say the least, Earl's performance in that game was just great IMO. I just give you some facts:

- his scum hunting was very self-confident, analytical, differentiated, sophisticated he was carefully weighing things and had a clear logic behind his decisions, I would even say professional.

- he even evolves to kind of a town leader in untangling an essential doc claim issue and setting up the right lynches.

- he wins with 3 town survivors, catching IC-scum on D2, only sparing her till D3 because of a replacement.

- Gets himself confirmed through a N1 kill attempt blocked by the doc (we already knew that bit, why he suddenly should honestly think that event left a bad mark on his playstyle and was bad for town in that game? I see no logical explanation, and Earl

is

a very logical guy as I know now...)

- all that is no wonder since Earl is obviously no newbie. To this site, of course he is, but he has some massive RL mafia experience in his background. Why should he suddenly think that willingly acting scummy, something that is as abti-town in RL mafia as it is on this forum, would be a good plan?!

So I wonder: Where is all this brilliance in

this

game?

Half of his posts he seems mostly concerned with what people think of him.

Really scummy

. On the other hand he is overly cautious where to put his vote - contradiction? More fishing for reputation? Any way, in this context

scummy

.

Of course he starts to contribute a bit more after realizing that he does not achieve anything but h´getting himself lynched with his attempt, still he seems a bit vague and undedicated about most players, having lot's of "neutral reads", "I don't know"s, "maybe town, but"s etc. in his posts. His case against brian is at least weak atm (of course those are per se weak scum tells, but in his other game he contributes lots of content filled WOTs from the beginning).

Conclusion: Earl is neither a noob nor an illogical bad player, thus he can only be scum. I guess he knows he's much better town as town than scum and tried this unbelievable stupid gambit to provide a safe ground for his actions, hoping all the newbies in this game would not realize it.

/Unvote. /Vote Earl

Important announcement:

That puts Earl at L-1. No one vote him any more!

There are two steps to be executed first:

i) Earl: Anything you wnat to utter as a last defence? Any information you want to give to town? Maybe it's your last chance.

ii) You still have - and should have - the chance to claim, if nothing else can stop it.