Whee, KDub. Let's start with
Post 111:
Kdub wrote:Iecerint, can you clarify:
Iecerint wrote:If I die, people will think I'm no good, but that's just because the real baddies haven't shown up yet. I lose my Death Miller curse after at least one "anti-town" player has flipped (counts scum, SK, cult, but not neutral survivors). If I flip simultaneous with an anti-town player before another anti-town player has flipped, I'll still be cursed, though, so watch out! (For example, if scum and me are both killed N0, we'll both flip guilty, but if scum flips guilty N0, I'll no longer be a Death Miller starting D1. If I flip before scum, I'll flip guilty.)
If you die before an anti town player has flipped, then you flip "
Ultros (Mafia)
"?
If you die after an anti town player has flipped, you flip "
Ultros (Death Miller)
"?
Does anything happen if you die first, then an anti town player flips?
I'm just having a tough time seeing this as a legitimate game mechanic. That plus the fact that Ultros is an antagonist plus the ink thing (good catch there, didn't even think about that) makes me uneasy about keeping you alive, especially since you otherwise have no abilities that would be useful to the town.
FoS: Zodiark
, all of his posts have been IIoA except for an OMGUS accusation of Glork, which clearly isn't the case.
This comes about midway through Page 5. After Zodiark recieves a little bit of attention, KDub presents somewhat of a case against him which amounts to "so far, Zodiark's posts have been information instead of analysis." Setting aside the fact that IIoA is a craptell (town do it much more often than scums do, but I will leave that debate for postgame), let's compare KDub's accusations against Zodiark with KDub's own posting up to that point.
KDub's four posts before his "IIoA" attack on Zodiark consiste of:
Saying he doesn't think Ultros would be protown (without bothering to reason out why scumUltros would fakeclaim deathmillerUltros to begin with)
Agreeng that Iece's post could have been intended as a joke, and asking for clarification
Asking Dram about his N0 softclaim
Asking Iece if there is a flavor reason Ultros could be town (without bothering to reason out that Ultros was a non-hostile NPC at the very, very end of the game, after fighting him repeatedly)
...and the first half of his Zodiark post, in which he asks Iece about flipping upon death.
So.... we have a halfassed vote with no analysis of Iece's motivations for claiming Ultros if he is UltrosScum, and a few softball questions to Dram and Iece.
Nowhere in any of those posts did KDub bother to actually explain why he felt the way he did about Iece.
Nowhere in any of those posts did KDub bother to analyze any other players' actions.
Nowhere in any of those posts did KDub really bother to analyze anything else relevant going on in the game. His posts were filler softball questions and nothing more.
Then he has the testicular fortitude to go after Zodiark (who was flaunting his knowledge of FFery for all to see) for IIoA.
Hypocrisy, much?
It should be noted that even AFTER his IIoA attack against Zodiark, KDub continues to provide any "this is why X is scum" or "this is why Y is town" kind of post. KDub's own
Post 5 and
Post 6 are just more general musings on game mechanics. I would love for him to explain how that was leading him to find scum, if he can't be arsed to analyze any other player's behavior.
The next significant thing KDub does is, of course, to hop on the Zodiark wagon after the latter's V/LA blunder:
Kdub wrote:Eh, jester is probably as likely as a death miller.
Zodiark13 wrote:I'm afraid I'm gunna have to call V/LA on this game for about a week, cause I'm behind on my read of this game
Devotress wrote:It's worth pointing out that zodiark has posted elsewhere on site too, in the time that he's been avoiding this thread.
Unvote
Vote: Zodiark13
I'm moving into the camp of those who thinks we should save Iecerint for tomorrow. Zodiark's play has been more suspicious.
Key things to remember here:
1) KDub is that magical fourth on a steamroll of a wagon.
2) Weaksauce reasoning provided of "his play has been more suspicious." This kind of wording positively
reeks
of "I just want to throw down some garbage 'reason' to be on this lynch."
3) After the vote, he piles onto the Zodiark push, repeating the whole "he is posting/joining other games" thing
Then we have Zodiark's first post of D2, the last part of which I will provide for you:
Kdub wrote:I'm going to stick with Iecerint for my vote. He hasn't acted particularly scummy, but he hasn't really acted pro-town either. I get a sense that he is commenting a lot on the setup, but not so much on other players. Add in the Ultros, death miller, and ink stuff and I think I'd like to see him lynched. I just know it's going to bug me more and more the longer he survives in the game.
Vote: Iecerint
Obviously the "I suspect Iece for the Ultros thing" isn't going through, so KDub changes tactics here. And what is his new tactic?
BURDEN OF PROOF.
"He hasn't acted particularly scummy, but he hasn't really acted pro-town either."
First of all, there were like half a dozen people who "hadn't acted particularly protown" at that point in the game. There were lurkers galore, and Iece was genuinely furthering discussion, which is far more protown than, for example, FC or WorseExcuse.
Secondly, IT'S BURDEN OF PROOF. KDub is basically saying "he must act demonstrably protown, or I will continue to suspect him." This is an absolutely HORRIBLE reason to vote someone, much less revive your past suspicion. KDub's clearly fishing for an alternate angle to get suspicion put onto Iece at this point.
Next we have:
Kdub wrote:FoS: FC Groningen
His last post feels very much like him trying to "play the field", keeping as many options open as possible so he has an excuse for shifting to other wagons later on.
Still not seeing a good reason to move from Iec at the moment.
This is another somewhat hypocritical post, though not as much as the earlier Zodiark one. It's notable because if you look at KDub's posts up to this point, he really doesn't ever bring anyone else into the discussion. When I iso'd KDub, I'd had a distinct feeling that it was KDub who was playing the field, even
before
I came to this post. And if you look at the language in much of his posts, he softballs everything until he can get a feel for how the rest of the town feels about his favored people of discussion:
Kdub wrote:Devotress wrote:That said, I'd rather try and hit another scum before Icerint if possible, because frankly, incase he's telling the truth about his death miller role It'd make analysing people's interactions in this game alot easier if we managed to hit another scum before him so we know for sure if Icerint is really scum.
I thought about this as well. If he is telling the truth, it would be better to save him until after a non-town flip. The problem is, what if he is lying scum and actually has night actions? Should we really give him another night to use them?
Kdub wrote:PranaDevil wrote:Starbuck wrote:How is it flimsy? Besides the flavor clearly stating it, did you not take elementary science? What happens when a lightning bolt hits ANYTHING?
That's beside the point, it's flimsy because he's claimed sodding Ramah! It hasn't been contested (and if he's lying... no, the real one shouldn't step forward until it's worth doing so), and thus he's not going to be scum in this game. Thus it's flimsy logic to focus on a good guy.
Ramuh could be a safeclaim. I'm not saying he is scum, but it's pretty weak to assume that someone is telling the truth simply because they claim a character and are not counterclaimed.
Kdub wrote:I'm moving into the camp of those who thinks we should save Iecerint for tomorrow.
Kdub wrote:I suspect Iecerint for the Ultros thing, but I don't see Glork as particularly suspicious. Can someone summarize the case on him?
Kdub wrote:Regarding the doom counter (I caught up after Starbuck died), at what point did the first few numbers appear? JP was the first to point them out in 444, but I wonder how long they had been there before he did so. It's very possible that Iecerint, Prana, and/or Glork were running the counter down quickly on purpose with their votes, and if those numbers were showing up while that sequence was going on, it's evidence that at least one of them was scum and not mentioning anything about them while voting/unvoting. I generally feel good about Glork, unsure about Prana at the moment.
Glork's Note: I include this, because he keeps "wondering" when the numbers show up without bothering to click back a couple of pages and look for himself. It's evident to me that KDub is looking for someone else to make or agree with his stance, hence why it's "playing the field."
Kdub wrote:Devotress:
I agree that if he flips as Mafia Goon, then he is not the ink source. I don't know that I would say he's not likely to be scum though.
I think that's about when I really started to suspect KDub. I just don't feel that he ever made any strong statements about anyone, but he attacked Zodiark for "IIoA," and FC for "playing the field," when I feel he has been at least as guilty as both of them. And the whole "Iece hasn't really done anything protown" is just mindblowingly bad.
So yeah. An FoS for KDub is an FoS for Progress.
UnFoS
FoS: KDub
) and that's clouded my judgement (not that it's been great I'll admit).
